Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXX: Going 8-0 to close out might not be enough!

[True Blue]

It's not disingenuous for all the reasons I explained. Do you need several people to repeat to you why it's not?

Sorry it obliterates your silly position.

You have not explained a thing. The Rangers are not in the position that the Sens were in. They do not NEED to trade anyone? They are not over a barrel. Buchnevich is not going UFA like Stone was.

And as I've said repeatedly it doesn't need to be a one to one trade. The fill ins for the Stone trade were minor and could easily be replicated.

So for the 20th time, what does the trade profile look like? Why do you keep running from this question?

I did name one, the Stone trade, it's a template for what I'm advocating. It didn't even take me ten seconds of searching.

Seriously? You are going to beat your chest over this one deal in which the scenarios are still not the same no matter how hard you try to white wash this? THIS is your example of something COULD happening? Ok. It COULD happen. And Smith can score 10 goals in tomorrow's game. That COULD happen as well.

A team with motive to move a first player for a prospect due to that team's circumstances: Ottawa's circumstances being that it was entering a rebuild and didn't have Stone locked up to a long term deal that would fit it's cap structure moving forward into a rebuild. Our similar circumstances would be we are still searching for a young center and we don't have Buch locked up to a long term deal at an affordable cap hit for our structure and his role moving forward.

I actually agree with you that if Buch was locked up at $3.5m for the next 4 seasons we aren't having this discussion.

The problem here, as it was with Ottawa, is that Buch isn't locked up at a price that matches his role moving forward. It's his lack of term, just like it was with Stone in Ottawa.

So these situations are about as similar as can reasonably be expected.

Going RFA and going UFA are two different things. Having the ability to resign a player (that the Rangers do) or not having such ability (Ottawa did not) makes for a world of difference.

The 'Send heading into a rebuild and not having the cash to resign their own player is not the same thing as the Rangers heading into playoff contention with plenty of money to resign whomever they feel like are two different situations. There is nothing remotely similar about them.

Yeah, just as wrong every time you repeat it.

First you say "It doesn't happen."

It doesn't happen. Discovering ONE or TWO occurrences in which the situations are not at all the same, does not a strong case make.

You have been banging the drum for one off season, two trading deadlines and two drafts that this was going to happen. And NOTHING happened.

Pathetic argument.

What is truly pathetic is that you coming up with what you did as evidence of likelihood. Have at it, I guess. Does not change the fact that such items really do not occur otherswise you would have a laundry list of examples. You do not. Hope your EA sports is has a long enough battery to keep your fantasies alive. Playoff teams do not trade away top liners for unproven prospects. Learn it. Love it. Live it.

 

[NYR Viper]

It's not easy to identify these players and they come at a premium. Getting the shitty players who are just physical has never worked for us.

And yes I would feel great if [for legal purposes Wilson got legally checked and was uninjured] in a game against the Rangers but I would hope a front office building a team for 82 games and 31 opponents has more vision than that.

The issue being, in the playoffs, successful teams play like for for an extended period of time. No one is saying dress a team full of goons. But to have very little in that arena has proven to be a glaring weakness of this roster. Not surprising, many called it out a while ago and it has been completely evident for most of this season. Ultimately culminating last night.

 

[Machinehead]

The issue being, in the playoffs, successful teams play like for for an extended period of time. No one is saying dress a team full of goons. But to have very little in that arena has proven to be a glaring weakness of this roster. Not surprising, many called it out a while ago and it has been completely evident for most of this season. Ultimately culminating last night.

I don't disagree but the point I'm making is, it's basically saying "go get a 1C just do it." It's not easy.

Other than Berard, we drafted for size this past offseason. The team is aware that they need some stiffer forwards who can also play. We have to be patient. Finding core stars is even harder and we've done that. Now we'll see the team take shape around them.

 

[Rangers in 7]

im not as concerned with the toughness going forward....what happened last night was disgusting but at the same time we didnt need to go out and sign martin for 5 years @ 2 mil per season

 

[NYR Viper]

I don't disagree but the point I'm making is, it's basically saying "go get a 1C just do it." It's not easy.

Other than Berard, we drafted for size this past offseason. The team is aware that they need some stiffer forwards who can also play. We have to be patient. Finding core stars is even harder and we've done that. Now we'll see the team take shape around them.

100% agree. Drafting someone because they are tough is silly, although I will say that it appears to me that the pendulum has swung too far away from valuing any sort of physical play and towards all skill. Like most things in life that I have found, the reaction to something is often to take things too far in the opposite direction until that is then determined to be the incorrect path, and then we all collectively come swinging back in the other direction.

Cuylle was a good pick. I like Gettinger and Schneider. Lindgren and the addition of Trouba, for all the shit he gets are staples for a reason. It's probably time (and I know we all pretty unanimously agree with this) to find a couple of players who can come in and develop that hard-nosed mentality up front a bit. That probably means losing some skilled forwards or players and in return finding guys who fit in specific roles who can play a different style of game than what they have currently assembled.

 

[Machinehead]

100% agree. Drafting someone because they are tough is silly, although I will say that it appears to me that the pendulum has swung too far away from valuing any sort of physical play and towards all skill. Like most things in life that I have found, the reaction to something is often to take things too far in the opposite direction until that is then determined to be the incorrect path, and then we all collectively come swinging back in the other direction.

Cuylle was a good pick. I like Gettinger and Schneider. Lindgren and the addition of Trouba, for all the shit he gets are staples for a reason. It's probably time (and I know we all pretty unanimously agree with this) to find a couple of players who can come in and develop that hard-nosed mentality up front a bit. That probably means losing some skilled forwards or players and in return finding guys who fit in specific roles who can play a different style of game than what they have currently assembled.

I think Buchnevich and Strome in particular have become redundant.

Not that Buchnevich doesn't engage between the whistles and I give him credit for that but he's very, very cavalier with the puck during play and his output doesn't justify it.

 

[LeetchisGod]

Many have been discussing this for well over a year. The team lacks guys willing and able to push back. We saw teams like the Caps and others building their rosters and knew this could take place. Gorton and his team wanted to address it but were unable to and this is where we are. The team is completely unable to address consistent physical play.

Let's also say this, if we are all talking about this for a regular season game how do we think this team would fair in a playoff series?

We saw it last year and the Canes aren't even a particularly physical team.

 

[Gardner McKay]

No need to push back. If teams want to take liberties then work on improving the PP to make them pay on the scoreboard.

Yeah. Makes sense. Especially when your best players get injured in the process and are unable to make them pay on the scoreboard.

 

[LeetchisGod]

No need to push back. If teams want to take liberties then work on improving the PP to make them pay on the scoreboard.

Can't improve on the powerplay if our star players are being taken out of commission.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think Buchnevich and Strome in particular have become redundant.

Not that Buchnevich doesn't engage between the whistles and I give him credit for that but he's very, very cavalier with the puck during play and his output doesn't justify it.

They are the (2) most glaring pieces that SHOULD have some value that could help in this regard for sure. I do think the maturation of the young guys will help too. In saying that, I do think there is something in building an organization with such young players that would make it a good idea to find a guy or two who can 'show them the way' in terms of pushing back and being there to help handle some things as they grow. Most of these young skilled kids have NEVER had to do this. That has not been their role. It's what makes the Tkachuk brothers so unique.

 

[Machinehead]

They are the (2) most glaring pieces that SHOULD have some value that could help in this regard for sure. I do think the maturation of the young guys will help too. In saying that, I do think there is something in building an organization with such young players that would make it a good idea to find a guy or two who can 'show them the way' in terms of pushing back and being there to help handle some things as they grow. Most of these young skilled kids have NEVER had to do this. That has not been their role. It's what makes the Tkachuk brothers so unique.

Said it before, but I'd kick the tires on Getzlaf for a year. A leader who excelled at every aspect of the game in his prime.

 

[NYR Viper]

Said it before, but I'd kick the tires on Getzlaf for a year. A leader who excelled at every aspect of the game in his prime.

I'd love Getzlaf.

I like the idea of Foligno if his contract demands aren't crazy too. I know he is another winger but he would be unique.

I think that perhaps a bottom-pairing d-man, a 3rd line forward of some kind and a 4th line player would be ideal.

I believe you have been touting this as well, but Gauthier is actually a fairly physical player even though he doesn't drop the gloves (who cares?). He very well could be that 3rd line player I'd like to see next year with his size and speed.

Let's also be honest with the reactions here today, Kreider, Trouba and Lindgren were all out. The team was lacking for physical presence all season and they were missing their most physical players.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Strome? Panarin? They both went after Wilson.

You think a goon on the 4th line playing 5min a night is going to deter Wilson from being a piece of shit? It won’t.

how about someone who actually knows how to defend themselves. a Tkachuk would be nice. Mika got elbowed by Martin and even he did not go back to defend himself. that is some leadership., how come Panarin did not do anything vs the Islanders. he must have seen it.

 

[Fitzy]

Said it before, but I'd kick the tires on Getzlaf for a year. A leader who excelled at every aspect of the game in his prime.

I'm open to any veterans who want to sign for just one year.

We will have one year of a lot of extra cap space, and still a lot of development left to go for some of the young players. As long as a Getzlaf/Defenseman aren't actively clocking youth development, it's a solid plan.

We disagree on who the defenseman should be, obviously, but NYR should take advantage of next year's space.

Key is to not go beyond 1 year term, because that's when things get tight.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm open to any veterans who want to sign for just one year.

We will have one year of a lot of extra cap space, and still a lot of development left to go for some of the young players. As long as a Getzlaf/Defenseman aren't actively clocking youth development, it's a solid plan.

We disagree on who the defenseman should be, obviously, but NYR should take advantage of next year's space.

Key is to not go beyond 1 year term, because that's when things get tight.

If they trade Buch and Strome, that may not be as tight as we all think. I'm okay looking at guys on 2-3 year deals. They can't be $5m per year players but Oleksiak for 2 years @ $2m per season? I'm okay with that

 

[SA16]

Yeah. Makes sense. Especially when your best players get injured in the process and are unable to make them pay on the scoreboard.

And what will retaliating after the fact do other than put the team on the PK?

 

[Machinehead]

Also, not to harp on Quinn yet again, but the coach is a big factor as well.

I think Quinn has this antiquated idea of toughness as fighting, taking penalties, and looking like you're trying hard. And he wants to take these nebulous, meaningless ideas and duct tape them to a run-and-gun system. Play east-west hockey but hustle while you're doing it and then get in a scrum when the play is over. *fart noise*

The tactics don't lend themselves to stiff hockey. We could use a couple more, but we have weapons right now who could be stiff and they're either not used or not encouraged to do that.

Gauthier leads the team in hits per minute and rides pine. That's because he's fast and gets into position to hit with ease. Howden, who can't f***ing skate, actively looks like he's running around, and that's what Quinn values.

Pretend grit in a passive system accomplishes f*** all.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Rangers sign Zac Rinaldo as UFA this summer. Mark my words

 

[FIRE DRURY]

how about someone who actually knows how to defend themselves. a Tkachuk would be nice. Mika got elbowed by Martin and even he did not go back to defend himself. that is some leadership., how come Panarin did not do anything vs the Islanders. he must have seen it.

We had one. Lemieux. We had another guy, but smaller. ADA. Trouba can fight. Kreider ? He’s not a brawler but he can certainly rag doll people. Lindgrens no bitch either.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Rangers sign Zac Rinaldo as UFA this summer. Mark my words

I think it'll be Reaves and I think they pay him like 2M per. They'll pay him more than they paid Tanner Glass.

 

[Machinehead]

Rangers sign Zac Rinaldo as UFA this summer. Mark my words

I am in abject disbelief that he's still in the NHL.

The perfect example of a guy who actively does nothing and gets employed to lose two fights for some reason.

 

[Machinehead]

Reaves, I would be fine with.

He's not great but he's tangibly an outstanding forechecker. Like, he accomplishes something.

 

[LeetchisGod]

Reaves, I would be fine with.

He's not great but he's tangibly an outstanding forechecker. Like, he accomplishes something.

He's clobbered Wilson a few times. Sign me up.

 

[Savant]

Love Reaves. Not sure he leaves Vegas but he can actually contribute besides being able to goon it up so sure

 

[Kords]

I have definitely disliked Frederic, but he's like a crazier Lemieux who plays Center. His age and style might fit the direction this team is looking to go. N/S style, plays with an edge and is strong in the crease for the dirty goals, sticks up for his teammates. Would be interested if he was available for the right price.