Roster Building/Team Building/Future Trade/Drafting thread.

[WTFMAN99]

Sometimes you need to evaluate who is giving the opinion before you decide if it's worthwhile to listen to.

You're only moving Carlo if you get Ekblad or Fabbro. No one is suggesting moving him if there isn't a built-in replacement.

Why not try to sign someone like Pious Suter and keep Carlo then?

I'm trying to really think about the last time a top 4 RD with term only returned a 3C.

 

[Fogelhund]

Cirelli is getting massively overvalued in this discussion. Nice player, but Nylander? Let’s get serious here. Doubling down doesn’t make it a better argument.

 

[Fogelhund]

Why not try to sign someone like Pious Suter and keep Carlo then?

I'm trying to really think about the last time a top 4 RD with term only returned a 3C.

I think Suter is going to get overpaid based on his unsustainable performance last year. Buyer beware.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think Suter is going to get overpaid based on his unsustainable performance last year. Buyer beware.

He wants around 4-4.5M per for 2-3 years I believe.

I don't love it but it's a good market if you're a centre, easy for him to point at Wennberg.

I just don't see that Carlo-Paul trade as a good basis for a trade, I feel like we could do significantly better.

 

[hamzarocks]

Why not try to sign someone like Pious Suter and keep Carlo then?

I'm trying to really think about the last time a top 4 RD with term only returned a 3C.

We should be dealing Carlo, it makes sense for us.

If Carlo got Cirelli then that's a deal you should make as it gives you an elite high end 3C for reasonable deal

Nylander for Cirelli is not right way at all.

We should either deal Carlo + 2nd for a good 2C or Cowan + Danford for one

Mactavish, Beniers, Rossi, Perfetti, etc we should be aggresively following the 2C market.

You can replace Carlo and upgrade the D this year via UFA with Fabbro (5M + Gavrikov/Provorov (7M). Which is basically marner's cap hit.

Carlo/2nd/Cowan/Danford should be used to get a legit 2C (under 27) who has shown good play at the NHL level

 

[Americanadian]

Why not try to sign someone like Pious Suter and keep Carlo then?

Suter is just Jarnkrok 2.0 but one of the slowest skaters in the league and he'll get 5M. Why would anyone want that?

I'm trying to really think about the last time a top 4 RD with term only returned a 3C.

I proposed McMann+Carlo for Paul+Raddysh. You're ignoring the 37 point RHD who is 1 year removed from playing 19 minutes/game too.

To answer your question though - I honestly can't remember the last time a 2RD was traded for an actual NHL player. Faulk, Manson, Carlo (to TOR), Burns, Savard, Durzi, Marino. Can you name any?

 

[rumman]

I'd be perfectly content to play here but I would not have social media, or at least public.

I'd probably have some fake Facebook profile for family and that's it.

After that? Play hard. This is a blue collar kind of fan base. We like our skill etc but Clark, Tucker, Roberts, McCabe, Domi etc are the most popular in recent memory.

Blue collar fanbase maybe, corporate shill season ticket holders are the majority of the season ticket holders, more interested in the sushi than the hockey game…….

 

[OVO16]

CJ said the leafs off-season is gonna be long and drawn out. Moves and transactions might not take place until August

Next few weeks gonna be boring then

 

[rumman]

Not if I wanted to win a Cup.
It’s not build it and they will come, it’s show it. And this core has shown I’ll pick another place.

I think Leaf Nation gets the team it deserves, fanbase happy with regular season success and annual playoff failure, so that’s what we get………

 

[TMLAM34]

Not arguing about the Ekman-Larsson signing because he played a lot better than I think anyone expected but seeing Florida spend 2 million total on their 3rd pairing unit makes me wonder if 3.5 million in OEL on the 3rd pair is really good asset management?

If we can sign Perbix at 2.25 million, him and Benoit would basically make what OEL makes alone. Use OEL as a trade chip to get some help upfront?

 

[Americanadian]

Not arguing about the Ekman-Larsson signing because he played a lot better than I think anyone expected but seeing Florida spend 2 million total on their 3rd pairing unit makes me wonder if 3.5 million in OEL on the 3rd pair is really good asset management?

If we can sign Perbix at 2.25 million, him and Benoit would basically make what OEL makes alone. Use OEL as a trade chip to get some help upfront?

The question is where does he go and for what? LAK and NYR make some sense (assuming they move out both KAM and Soucy). OEL for Moore makes some sense but LS wingers are so abundant, is bringing in Moore at 4.2M really doing anything? Also worth noting that the panthers got 16 minutes/night in the playoffs from Schmidt and Kulikov, the Leafs got 19 minutes/night from OEL.

 

[Mike4Leafs4ever]

I don’t get this Kypreos sign and trade talk, with Vegas or Dallas… isn’t Marner seeking a shorter deal? Like two years? How does that make any sense for a sign and trade?

I get the allure of Karlsson or Hertl, or even Jason Robertson from Dallas, but I just don’t see it working out that way. If it’s a short-term deal, they are simply giving us assets that they don’t need to, and could get more elsewhere. Unless it’s for the pleasure of taking him off the open market… a monopoly for signing…

Sign and trade can work if Leafs retain on Marners salary.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Suter is just Jarnkrok 2.0 but one of the slowest skaters in the league and he'll get 5M. Why would anyone want that?

I proposed McMann+Carlo for Paul+Raddysh. You're ignoring the 37 point RHD who is 1 year removed from playing 19 minutes/game too.

To answer your question though - I honestly can't remember the last time a 2RD was traded for an actual NHL player. Faulk, Manson, Carlo (to TOR), Burns, Savard, Durzi, Marino. Can you name any?

Still fantastic defensive metrics in really tough usage even if he's not the fastest skater. Hard to fake the metrics and I really didn't like that roster last year. That team is basically Hughes.

Were Faulk and Manson pending UFAs? I believe Faulk was.

Burns and Savard are older. Burns was kinda given away and the Savard to TBL deal? I believe that was more of a rental situation but it did involve a 1st.

Durzi was legit given away for only a 2nd

Marino was a 2nd+ on a down year for NJD

Cirelli had a great season and was in there for a Selke but the 2 seasons prior to this he had 45 pts in 79 gp and 29 in 58 (41 pt pace) - he pulls 6.25M - I like him a lot but he's the bare minimum I would need in a Carlo conversation. Paul and Raddysh don't do it for me.

 

[TMLAM34]

The question is where does he go and for what? LAK and NYR make some sense (assuming they move out both KAM and Soucy). OEL for Moore makes some sense but LS wingers are so abundant, is bringing in Moore at 4.2M really doing anything? Also worth noting that the panthers got 16 minutes/night in the playoffs from Schmidt and Kulikov, the Leafs got 19 minutes/night from OEL.

Do you know what OEL’s ice time totals in the playoffs were with the Panthers two years ago? Actually curious.

 

[Fogelhund]

He wants around 4-4.5M per for 2-3 years I believe.

I don't love it but it's a good market if you're a centre, easy for him to point at Wennberg.

I just don't see that Carlo-Paul trade as a good basis for a trade, I feel like we could do significantly better.

I think as a team we should trying to improve team speed, not make it worse.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I think all the talk of regression is premature. The fact of the matter is that with an injured Matthews and little contribution from Marner, we came closer than any other team to dethroning the champs. One goal away from taking a 3-0 series lead.

If our cap space is used wisely, next season doesn't have to be a throw away season.

 

[SprDaVE]

CJ said the leafs off-season is gonna be long and drawn out. Moves and transactions might not take place until August

Next few weeks gonna be boring then

Last 3 off-seasosn were long and drawn out with nothing happening for the Leafs. The guy just can't get anything done roster management wise I guess

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think as a team we should trying to improve team speed, not make it worse.

I don't disagree, just a tough market for centres.

Purely hypothetical but I think in that specific scenario, you're looking to find guys on the wing that have the speed because the centre isn't a burner.

 

[I am Canadian]

If the Leafs could get Hertl on the cheap that would be fantastic

Knies - Matthews - xxxxxx

xxxxx - Hertl - Nylander

McMann - Tavares - Cowan

Lorentz - Laughton - xxxx

 

[SprDaVE]

I think all the lalk of regression is premature. The fact of the matter is that with an injured Matthews and little contribution from Marner, we came closer than any other team to dethroning the champs. One goal away from taking a 3-0 series lead.

If our cap space is used wisely, next season doesn't have to be a throw away season.

You can't use your cap appropriately if you're giving Marchand 9M. The idea not resigning Marner is to get better depth, not use it all on a 38 year old that doesn't PK or playing tons of minutes.

People seemgliny forgot about the Marleau fiasco.

 

[Fogelhund]

I don't disagree, just a tough market for centres.

Purely hypothetical but I think in that specific scenario, you're looking to find guys on the wing that have the speed because the centre isn't a burner.

Suter's top speed is 21.07 mph... that's pretty much bottom of the league speed. I don't mind average, but Jason Allison slow is something I don't want to overpay for.. though if we have no choice...

He's a smart player, positionally sound, which helps make up for his lack of foot speed... he knows where to be on the ice to get a shot off... But, he went from a career 13% shooter, to a year at 18%, and 17:21 in ice time.

 

[WTFMAN99]

You can't use your cap appropriately if you're giving Marchand 9M. The idea not resigning Marner is to get better depth, not use it all on a 38 year old that doesn't PK or playing tons of minutes.

People seemgliny forgot about the Marleau fiasco.

Did Marchand stop killing penalties? I remember he was absolutely deadly for SHG and even had one in this year's playoffs.

 

[I am Canadian]

Here's my goofy roster. This looks pretty good imo.

Defense is exactly the same.

Marchand 8.5 x 4
Tavares 4.5 x 6
Knies 5 x 3
Trade for Hertl

 

[Rare Jewel]

So, this Knies thing is interesting.

What would it take?

I've had an idea for a while, given the depth (and quality of it), that you could move him for two possibly younger or less established players (but with obvious upside) who are preferably a C or D.

 

[Fogelhund]

If the Leafs could get Hertl on the cheap that would be fantastic

Knies - Matthews - xxxxxx

xxxxx - Hertl - Nylander

McMann - Tavares - Cowan

Lorentz - Laughton - xxxx

Hertl would likely need to be a Marner sign and trade, and I think the odds of that are incredibly small. Hertl on a free market trade, we just don't have the assets for.