Roster Building/Team Building/Future Trade/Drafting thread.

[Americanadian]

Cirelli or no conversation to be had.

Cirelli is a Nylander conversation.

 

[Stringer Bell]

Hypothetically...


Knies Matthews Domi
Marchand________Nylander
McMann Tavares Laughton
__________ Lorentz Holmberg

Extra: Pacioretty
We're most likely not getting Marchand, but reported AAV aside let's PRETEND we did. We're most likely resigning Tavares. Wait him out, we'll get him for 5 or 5.5.

Domi on the top line right wing isn't ideal, but I think it could work with the way Knies and Matthews play.

Marchand on the second line makes sense. To me, if you resign Tavares, you have to at least acknowledge at the same time that you're not going deep in the playoffs with him as your second line center. He simply disappears and can't keep up against a good fast hard team. That being said, you might not need a world beater in between Marchand and Nylander, but someone younger and faster.

What do we do there?

McMann on the third line. I think the playoffs exposed him as a third line winger, NOT a second line winger. Tavares and the way he plays will do well with McMann with third line minutes. Laughton is a left winger, so does he not work here, or...could it work?

Lorentz was great. Holmberg, I think is a really good fourth liner. 7 goals and 19 points in 68 games is fine for a fourth liner and he's certainly versatile. Didn't provide any offense in the playoffs but he showed value in defensive awareness and pest activity. Missing someone on the left side. Pacioretty might be a fine healthy scratch with spot duty.

Robertson - GONE. He won't want to be here anyway after being scratched in the playoffs again and I think we all gave it last year to see if there was any hidden potential.

Jarnkrok - I don't think he fits anymore. Even though he's low bar, identity needs to change on these lower lines. We need to dump some how.

Kampf - same as Jarnkrok.

Reaves - buried. Please.

Even if Cowan some how earns a spot you can't go into training camp assuming that so these spots need to be filled.

Would consider giving Steeves a 1 way 1 million dollar contract.

Would really like to know people's thoughts. This is somewhat realistic to me, but I know some here will vehemently disagree. But let's pretend you do - how do you fill those empty spots? (Second line center most importantly, bottom 6 depth).

 

[MarMarSab3]

Cirelli is a Nylander conversation.

It's really not and I'm a Cirelli Fan

 

[Trapper]

If your a player would you willingly want to play here?

Not if I wanted to win a Cup.
It’s not build it and they will come, it’s show it. And this core has shown I’ll pick another place.

 

[Americanadian]

It's really not and I'm a Cirelli Fan

27 year old, team Canada, defensive 2C who just scored 27G/59 points, signed 6 years at 6.25M is a Nylander conversation.

 

[WTFMAN99]

27 year old, team Canada, defensive 2C who just scored 27G/59 points, signed 6 years at 6.25M is a Nylander conversation.

6'5 Brandan Carlo making less than 4M this year and next year, right shot D. Teams will pay for this player if they become available.

2C vs #4 RD

A generic 3C doesn't get it done at all.

 

[MarMarSab3]

27 year old, team Canada, defensive 2C who just scored 27G/59 points, signed 6 years at 6.25M is a Nylander conversation.

28 in a couple weeks, Team Canada selection was because of Cooper, him being selected ahead of Scheifele is a joke. His first good year statistically.

 

[Duffman955]

Would not mind either of Cirelli or Paul.

Don't think that goes down tho

 

[hamzarocks]

27 year old, team Canada, defensive 2C who just scored 27G/59 points, signed 6 years at 6.25M is a Nylander conversation.

Cirelli was a pretty bad offensive player who had a career season this year with 60 pts.

He was overpaid before that with 117 pts in his past 230 games (45 pts per 82 pace) from 2022 to 2024 years.

He isn't a PP threat so acquiring him doesnt give us a strong PP finisher/set up man who can help drive offense there.

His game also isn't very productive in the plaoyffs with only 43 pts in 108 games a ~33 pt per 82 pace. If you remove 2018 since it was his first run, he goes up to ~36 pt per 82 player.

I can't see him being close to Nylander who sure is 1.5-2M overpaid. But cirelli if he goes back to his regular 45ish self is also overpaid at least 1M and doesnt have Nylander upside for play driving and offense generation come playoffs

 

[mydnyte]

Cirelli is a Nylander conversation.

Cirelli had his career best season of 27 goals and 59 points. Nylander had more points than that in his first full seaon.
they are a completely different level of player

 

[Americanadian]

28 in a couple weeks, Team Canada selection was because of Cooper, him being selected ahead of Scheifele is a joke. His first good year statistically.

He's averaged 20G/47P per 82 GP in his career. He's a selke trophy finalist. He's unbelievable value for his contract.

 

[Americanadian]

Cirelli had his career best season of 27 goals and 59 points. Nylander had more points than that in his first full seaon.
they are a completely different level of player

One is a defensive C, one is a one-dimensional winger. They are completely different types of players. Contracts also factor in significantly. Cirelli produced more points and goals per dollar while also playing C and also being a Selke finalist.

 

[Americanadian]

Cirelli was a pretty bad offensive player who had a career season this year with 60 pts.

He was overpaid before that with 117 pts in his past 230 games (45 pts per 82 pace) from 2022 to 2024 years.

He isn't a PP threat so acquiring him doesnt give us a strong PP finisher/set up man who can help drive offense there.

His game also isn't very productive in the plaoyffs with only 43 pts in 108 games a ~33 pt per 82 pace. If you remove 2018 since it was his first run, he goes up to ~36 pt per 82 player.

I can't see him being close to Nylander who sure is 1.5-2M overpaid. But cirelli if he goes back to his regular 45ish self is also overpaid at least 1M and doesnt have Nylander upside for play driving and offense generation come playoffs

I don't know in what world Cirelli is overpaid. His whole game is a defensive specialist.

 

[mydnyte]

He's averaged 20G/47P per 82 GP in his career. He's a selke trophy finalist. He's unbelievable value for his contract.

I would have expected those types of numbers and level of play defensively from Minten.
He's not Nylander level, Point is Nylander level.

 

[hamzarocks]

He's averaged 20G/47P per 82 GP in his career. He's a selke trophy finalist. He's unbelievable value for his contract.

He only looks good value when the better players on the team are driving the offense and helping win games

Kucherov
Point
Hedman
Stamkos
Hagel

He needs guys ahead of him who are elite and produce. The tampa's 2 cup runs he was playing 2C but was underwhelming priduction wise. He had an elite shut-down 3rd line behind him as well.

You deal Nylander for Cirelli + 5M winger, your offense is worse, Cirelli has to play a higher and more elevated role and be a core player rather than a secondary group guy who can play behind the stars.

Without Nylander our offensive core is

Matthews
Marchand (? If we sign him)
Cirelli
tavares (if hes back)

there is no kucherov, point, guentzel, hagel on the team to drive offense and play for him and let him be a strong defensive center with lack of offensive responsibilities/expectations

Nylander has been more important to winning playoff games for the leafs than Cirelli has for the bolts last 3 years, despite leafs being R2 exits 2X and R1 1X.

 

[Americanadian]

6'5 Brandan Carlo making less than 4M this year and next year, right shot D. Teams will pay for this player if they become available.

2C vs #4 RD

A generic 3C doesn't get it done at all.

Carlo has 2 years term, he doesn't fetch a 2C with 6 years left.

Paul at least only has 4 years left and is great value at 3.15M. I would take him for Carlo in a heartbeat.

 

[Kiwi]

I think we need to leave Cowan a place on the 3rd line if he's good in camp, he played bloody well last year and should be given an opportunity if he's good enough

Were going to need guys who can PK and a PP QB with Marner going to

We also need a top 6LW and middle 6C, maybe a top line RW as well

That's a lot of stuff

 

[Gaberd2608]

Trading Carlo for a forward, is just plugging a hole while making a new one.

We've been clamoring for a top 4 RD for years and years now, and we we finally get one in his prime, we looking to trade him away? I don;t see it

Morgan Rielly is the only one that makes sense

If the Leafs were trading Carlo I assume it would be done strategically. If Leafs can sign Ekblad and/or Fabbro Carlo is probably the easiest piece to move for an upgrade at forward.

I've heard the SDPN guys talking about a transition year and I just don't get it. Just because Mitch is gone? If we add Marchand + Patty Kane using his money, we're a stronger playoff threat than last year.

Our goaltending is set, our defense is set, only thing we'd be missing is that two-way middle C.

We have Carlo, Stolarz and Laughton on bargain deals this year, gotta pay them the year after. Waste another year of Matthews.

Just don't see the need for a step-back tbh. In the unlikely event McDavid hits free agency, we'll find the money for him, I don't think we should be provisioning today for that unlikely event.

Marchand makes me nervous given his age and the cost being floated around with him. I think if we look at the team last season, the reality is we killed it during the regular season. If we use Marners cap space and upgrade on some different spots we may be ok.

 

[Americanadian]

He only looks good value when the better players on the team are driving the offense and helping win games

Kucherov
Point
Hedman
Stamkos
Hagel

No ones acquiring Cirelli to be an offensive driver. If you can run Matthews-Cirelli-Tavares that would arguably be better than Florida's top 3.

He needs guys ahead of him who are elite and produce. The tampa's 2 cup runs he was playing 2C but was underwhelming priduction wise. He had an elite shut-down 3rd line behind him as well.

You deal Nylander for Cirelli + 5M winger, your offense is worse, Cirelli has to play a higher and more elevated role and be a core player rather than a secondary group guy who can play behind the stars.

Cirelli is already a 2C. I don't care if the Leafs offense is worse from 1 trade. They can subtract goals from the roster and still win. Florida scored 21 less goals than them in the regular season last year.

Nylander has been more important to winning playoff games for the leafs than Cirellie has for the bolts last 3 years, despite leafs being R2 exits 2X and R1 1X.

A trade would probably be Cirelli+Bjorkstrand for Nylander+McMann to balance salary. The Leafs would have to use other assets to acquire scoring wingers, as they should, but that gives you 2/3 of an elite matchup line and that frees up a Knies-Matthews line and a Tavares line to take lesser matchups.

 

[hamzarocks]

No ones acquiring Cirelli to be an offensive driver. If you can run Matthews-Cirelli-Tavares that would arguably be better than Florida's top 3.

Cirelli is already a 2C. I don't care if the Leafs offense is worse from 1 trade. They can subtract goals from the roster and still win. Florida scored 21 less goals than them in the regular season last year.

A trade would probably be Cirelli+Bjorkstrand for Nylander+McMann to balance salary. The Leafs would have to use other assets to acquire scoring wingers, as they should, but that gives you 2/3 of an elite matchup line and that frees up a Knies-Matthews line and a Tavares line to take lesser matchups.

I guess my concern is Cirelli will give you 2-4 pts in a 7 game series, Tavares will give you 3-4 pts in a 7 game series. Cirelli might break even or be small +/- at 5V5 but JT on L3 if he continues to suck producing will be heavily outscored still at the 3C

Will our defense+goaltending be good enough to win when we get that little production from our 2C + 3C?

Tavares being an all-time bad playoff performer for the leafs hurts acquiring cirelli. We can't have JT pull a Marchand and put up 5-7 pts in 7 games from the 3rd line consistently like FLO did.

We would have two lines driven by low end offensive players on top of AM34 whose a big time choker too.

Don't think our defense would be good enough to compensate for that unless we got a few wingers who can drive L2 and L3 at near 75 pts/82 play for not too kucb

 

[Fogelhund]

I don’t get this Kypreos sign and trade talk, with Vegas or Dallas… isn’t Marner seeking a shorter deal? Like two years? How does that make any sense for a sign and trade?

I get the allure of Karlsson or Hertl, or even Jason Robertson from Dallas, but I just don’t see it working out that way. If it’s a short-term deal, they are simply giving us assets that they don’t need to, and could get more elsewhere. Unless it’s for the pleasure of taking him off the open market… a monopoly for signing…

 

[WTFMAN99]

Carlo has 2 years term, he doesn't fetch a 2C with 6 years left.

Paul at least only has 4 years left and is great value at 3.15M. I would take him for Carlo in a heartbeat.

Yeah, there is no point in discussing this one further but no one is on board with this. I say this respectfully but when you have ideas (which are normal to have) and the response from multiple people are telling you no, re-evaluate.


I throw out tons of crap on this board and sometimes it's a discussion, you can tweak things etc or sometimes upon reflection, I had a really bad take/idea.


This is one of your bad ideas, it's fine, you come with good ideas too sometimes but a #4 RD like Carlo is something we've looked for, for a long time.

 

[Americanadian]

2 trades+5 UFAs

Trade:
To TBL: Carlo, McMann
To TOR: Paul, Raddysh

To PHI: Cowan, Woll
To TOR: Tippet, Hathaway

UFA:
Ekblad 8.5Mx7 (going to age horribly but hopefully he's on LTIR by the time it gets really bad)
Tanev 2Mx3 (reuniting the brothers)
Raddysh 2Mx4 (reuniting the brothers)
Mangiapane 3Mx3 (heavily rumored)
Vladar 1.5Mx2 (Treliving's guy)
Tavares 5Mx4

RFA: Knies 6.5Mx3

Domi-Matthews-Tippett
Knies-Paul-Nylander
Mangiapane-Tavares-Raddysh
Tanev-Laughton-Hathaway

McCabe-Ekblad
Rielly-Tanev
OEL-Raddysh

Stolarz
Vladar

 

[hamzarocks]

2 trades+5 UFAs

Trade:
To TBL: Carlo, McMann
To TOR: Paul, Raddysh

To PHI: Cowan, Woll
To TOR: Tippet, Hathaway

UFA:
Ekblad 8.5Mx7 (going to age horribly but hopefully he's on LTIR by the time it gets really bad)
Tanev 2Mx3 (reuniting the brothers)
Raddysh 2Mx4 (reuniting the brothers)
Mangiapane 3Mx3 (heavily rumored)
Vladar 1.5Mx2 (Treliving's guy)
Tavares 5Mx4

RFA: Knies 6.5Mx3

Domi-Matthews-Tippett
Knies-Paul-Nylander
Mangiapane-Tavares-Raddysh
Tanev-Laughton-Hathaway

McCabe-Ekblad
Rielly-Tanev
OEL-Raddysh

Stolarz
Vladar

Tampa trade I would do, but pass on flyers one.

Cowan should be dealt for a higher end asset than Tippett. Not paying that much to acquire Hathaway and Tippett

Woll + 2nd for Tippett id do then deal Cowan for a position we are missing

 

[Americanadian]

Yeah, there is no point in discussing this one further but no one is on board with this. I say this respectfully but when you have ideas (which are normal to have) and the response from multiple people are telling you no, re-evaluate.

I throw out tons of crap on this board and sometimes it's a discussion, you can tweak things etc or sometimes upon reflection, I had a really bad take/idea.

Sometimes you need to evaluate who is giving the opinion before you decide if it's worthwhile to listen to.

This is one of your bad ideas, it's fine, you come with good ideas too sometimes but a #4 RD like Carlo is something we've looked for, for a long time.

You're only moving Carlo if you get Ekblad or Fabbro. No one is suggesting moving him if there isn't a built-in replacement.