Roster Building/Team Building/Future Trade/Drafting thread.

[IPS]

I personally can't wait to rebuild to see peoples reaction on how lucky we actually got this time around.

We sucked for 3 years (activity tried to win for 2 of those years, and tanked the last year and then became a playoff team). It's never that easy/supposed to work out like that.

What's the alternative? Stay where we're at where we know for a fact we won't jack shit?

It's like you people prefer familiarity more than anything, winning seems irrelevant.

 

[TMLAM34]

Imagine looking at the spoiled & petulant Matthews/Marner/Nylander, and then looking at the arrogant Zegras and thinking he would've developed better with that group. What??

It’s funny you mention Matthews, Marner and Nylander meanwhile I mentioned Matthews, Tavares and Rielly. Also regardless of what you think about the three you mentioned, you can’t deny their skill level. They are amongst some of the best in the league and regardless if they’re greedy or not, someone as skilled as Zegras would have definitely benefited by playing alongside. Andreas Johnsson looked good next to Matthews… lol

 

[Torontonian]

What's the alternative? Stay where we're at where we know for a fact we won't jack shit?

It's like you people prefer familiarity more than anything, winning seems irrelevant.

We don't know they won't win in the next coming years lol, People speak as if the team isn't one of the top 10 teams in the league every year.

The alternative is what they are about to do now, Rising cap & finally out of a contract that was killing them (JT). They can actually afford an have the ability to have depth.

Trading away your 1C & rebuilding and hopefully being competitive is going to help them win? Rebuilds don't always work out, Check out EDM (before mcdavid)/Buffalo/Det/SJ/Ducks/Utah/Blackhawks etc.

 

[Rare Jewel]

I personally can't wait to rebuild to see peoples reaction on how lucky we actually got this time around.

We sucked for 3 years (activity tried to win for 2 of those years, and tanked the last year and then became a playoff team). It's never that easy/supposed to work out like that.

Rielly was a top 5 pick two years prior to Nylander, and there were some good players left over from the Burke Era as well, Kadri, Gardiner, JVR..

It wasn't all just 3 years.

 

[Torontonian]

Rielly was a top 5 pick two years prior to Nylander, and there were some good players left over from the Burke Era as well, Kadri, Gardiner, JVR..

It wasn't all just 3 years.

Toronto was activity trying to win in those years. When team's rebuild they normally tank and suck on purpose and don't try to dress a good roster. That wasn't what Toronto was doing when they got Moe, Nylander, Marner lol.

The only time they activity tried to suck is when we got Matthews, and then made the playoffs the next year. How often does the last place team make it to the playoffs the next year? I'm going to assume not very often.

What I'm trying to say is, rebuilding very rarely happens how we did it, and sometimes doesn't work at all.

 

[JKG33]

It’s funny you mention Matthews, Marner and Nylander meanwhile I mentioned Matthews, Tavares and Rielly. Also regardless of what you think about the three you mentioned, you can’t deny their skill level. They are amongst some of the best in the league and regardless if they’re greedy or not, someone as skilled as Zegras would have definitely benefited by playing alongside. Andreas Johnsson looked good next to Matthews… lol

What do all 7 of those players have in common? All the skill in the world and none of the heart

 

[Hellcat]

Buffalo is a dumpster fire of a team, we pillage Tuch, Peterka, Thompson, Byram for whatever and call it a day.

Rielly, Robertson, Jarkrok, Kampft, Reaves, Domi for Tuch, Peterka, Thompson, Byram

 

[Rare Jewel]

Toronto was activity trying to win in those years. When team's rebuild they normally tank and suck on purpose and don't try to dress a good roster. That wasn't what Toronto was doing when they got Moe, Nylander, Marner lol.

The only time they activity tried to suck is when we got Matthews, and then made the playoffs the next year. How often does the last place team make it to the playoffs the next year? I'm going to assume not very often.

So..

What does actively trying to win have to do with anything? Buffalo has been trying for a decade+ with, at one time, new ownership looking to push them forward, and yet they still ended up with two 1st overall picks.

The Kessel/Phaneuf era Leafs were a bad hockey team, irrespective of whether they were trying to win or not.

 

[Torontonian]

So..

What does actively trying to win have to do with anything? Buffalo has been trying for a decade+ with, at one time, new ownership looking to push them forward, and yet they still ended up with two 1st overall picks.

The Kessel/Phaneuf era Leafs were a bad hockey team, irrespective of whether they were trying to win or not.

Exactly, It shows you how hard it actually is to become good in the NHL, and some fans want to "rebuild again" because they feel like Toronto is entitled to win a championship. You can have good teams and not win, it happens & would suck.

The topic was "we should trade Matthews". Cutting loose a 28-29 year old 1C in his prime. Because they haven't won yet is silly and emotional thinking.

Toronto has good players for another 6-7 years if they are lucky to retain em, As long as they are continuously making the playoffs why would people want to "rebuild" for the unknown.

 

[IPS]

We don't know they won't win in the next coming years lol, People speak as if the team isn't one of the top 10 teams in the league every year.

The alternative is what they are about to do now, Rising cap & finally out of a contract that was killing them (JT). They can actually afford an have the ability to have depth.

Trading away your 1C & rebuilding and hopefully being competitive is going to help them win? Rebuilds don't always work out, Check out EDM (before mcdavid)/Buffalo/Det/SJ/Ducks/Utah/Blackhawks etc.

The evidence has piled up over the last 10 years pretty prominently.

We're not even the San Jose Sharks of this era, even they went further most of the time.

 

[Makaveli]

Would love for us to try to get Tippett. Also I would be calling Vegas about Barbashev.

 

[TMLAM34]

What do all 7 of those players have in common? All the skill in the world and none of the heart

I think that’s pretty debatable with Tavares and Rielly IMO. Regardless, no one mentioned anything about heart. All I mentioned was maybe playing with players of that skillset could have helped Zegras elevate his game given he’s got a ton of skill as well. Would it have been a good fit? Probably not cause we see having to many of the same kind of players clearly doesn’t work but given the low cost to acquire, knowing Zegras could get you say 70 points and is a threat offensively, maybe it makes loosing Marner a little easier. Or maybe trading Nylander for multiple assets wouldn’t be as bad, etc. We’re in a terrible position right now and might need to take chances on younger players who aren’t panning out as expected in their current situations.

 

[JKG33]

I think that’s pretty debatable with Tavares and Rielly IMO. Regardless, no one mentioned anything about heart. All I mentioned was maybe playing with players of that skillset could have helped Zegras elevate his game given he’s got a ton of skill as well. Would it have been a good fit? Probably not cause we see having to many of the same kind of players clearly doesn’t work but given the low cost to acquire, knowing Zegras could get you say 70 points and is a threat offensively, maybe it makes loosing Marner a little easier. Or maybe trading Nylander for multiple assets wouldn’t be as bad, etc. We’re in a terrible position right now and might need to take chances on younger players who aren’t panning out as expected in their current situations.

Skill has never been a problem with this team, so sure maybe Zegras would've got more points in Toronto.

He also would've fit right in with the no heart, selfish, soft, lazy group

 

[DragoGrizzly]

Would love for us to try to get Tippett. Also I would be calling Vegas about Barbashev.

Barbashev someone I’ve wanted since he was on St. Louis. Seems to fit the identity the Leafs want now and familiarity with Berube from the cup win.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

If the leafs pass on the big deals via free agency and wait to see which teams have to move players for cap management purporses, I wonder if Tre will also consider facilitating teams as the 3rd wheel and using our retained slots to gather assets.

 

[Skullz]

Sign Cody Glass. Try to get Crouse from Utah (coming off a really down year) and see if a Center shakes loose in Vegas if they sign Marner.

I would also move out OEL (preferably Rielly tho) and sign Fabbro.

Value to be had in the right areas.

But definetly could be a make or break offseason for us - and not off to a great start.

 

[Torontonian]

The evidence has piled up over the last 10 years pretty prominently.

We're not even the San Jose Sharks of this era, even they went further most of the time.

And they still have another 8 years to try to win it all, just like how SJ kept all their players and attempted the same.

Truthfully, looking back at the end of all this, even if Toronto made multiple runs to the 3rd round, and SCF and lost, I don't think people will be happy, end goal is to win it all right?

The star players are just entering their prime, like I said earlier, Toronto isn't entitled to just win because they have good players, -- you keep trying until you do or don't but you don't trade away a 1C because they haven't won in the time frame people have wanted them to win in.

The good news is, Toronto is actually going to have the ability to build their roster properly going forward.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Exactly, It shows you how hard it actually is to become good in the NHL, and some fans want to "rebuild again" because they feel like Toronto is entitled to win a championship. You can have good teams and not win, it happens & would suck.

The topic was "we should trade Matthews". Cutting loose a 28-29 year old 1C in his prime. Because they haven't won yet is silly and emotional thinking.

Toronto has good players for another 6-7 years if they are lucky to retain em, As long as they are continuously making the playoffs why would people want to "rebuild" for the unknown.

6 or 7 years? How good do you think Nylander is going to be then? He's 29 now, and who else, Knies?

It's a bit weird to emphasize how important Matthews is, then say the window of being good exceeds his contract by 3 or 4 years. Even if Matthews re-signs, that group of 3 is going to need a lot of help to be cup competitive.

I think that's quite a ways off... and they've got three years to figure it out.


Also, while I'm not in the trade Matthews camp and do feel disappointed by how some fans feel towards him, at this point, though, it's not without reason, and you can even say that it's "silly emotional thinking" that they will actually change based on what we've seen now for at least 8 seasons.

The other issue to consider is: a 28-year-old Matthews is more valuable than a 31-year-old Matthews. So, if we establish that he can't emotionally or statistically drive this team, or they reach a point where they can't surround him with the necessary talent to help him (both equally important), then trading him is not an illogical step.



Lastly, I think it gets forgotten that half of the division went into decline during our rebuild. Florida was mediocre, Buffalo was bad, and Detroit and Ottawa followed shortly after... even Montreal has tanked in the Matthews era.

They have had some breaks that have made the ascension seem more seamless than perhaps it should've been,

 

[Torontonian]

6 or 7 years? How good do you think Nylander is going to be then? He's 29 now, and who else, Knies?

It's a bit weird to emphasize how important Matthews is, then say the window of being good exceeds his contract by 3 or 4 years. Even if Matthews re-signs, that group of 3 is going to need a lot of help to be cup competitive.

I think that's quite a ways off... and they've got three years to figure it out.


Also, while I'm not in the trade Matthews camp and do feel disappointed by how some fans feel towards him, at this point, though, it's not without reason, and you can even say that it's "silly emotional thinking" that they will actually change based on what we've seen now for at least 8 seasons.

The other issue to consider is: a 28-year-old Matthews is more valuable than a 31-year-old Matthews. So, if we establish that he can't emotionally or statistically drive this team, or they reach a point where they can't surround him with the necessary talent to help him (both equally important), then trading him is not an illogical step.



Lastly, I think it gets forgotten that half of the division went into decline during our rebuild. Florida was mediocre, Buffalo was bad, and Detroit and Ottawa followed shortly after... even Montreal has tanked in the Matthews era.

They have had some breaks that have made the ascension seem more seamless than perhaps it should've been,

It's tough to say on how any player ages or how well they are going to be, but suddenly Marchand at age 37 has a resurgence in the playoffs and was dominate. Elite players generally tend to be good/elite for a long time.

Toronto finally has the ability to get them some real help, how they do it is up to them, but there's money and space available for the first time in almost 7 years (self inflicted).

Yes, half the team's in the division have been bad, but on the flip side the Atlantic the past 7/8 years has been the hardest division. Tampa, Florida, Boston, Toronto have all pretty much been dominate.

 

[IPS]

And they still have another 8 years to try to win it all, just like how SJ kept all their players and attempted the same.

Truthfully, looking back at the end of all this, even if Toronto made multiple runs to the 3rd round, and SCF and lost, I don't think people will be happy, end goal is to win it all right?

The star players are just entering their prime, like I said earlier, Toronto isn't entitled to just win because they have good players, -- you keep trying until you do or don't but you don't trade away a 1C because they haven't won in the time frame people have wanted them to win in.

The good news is, Toronto is actually going to have the ability to build their roster properly going forward.

Uhh no. They've been squarely in their prime for a long time, and are closer to exiting their primes than entering them.

Don't let me get in the way of your optimism though - by all means feel that way.

 

[weems]

If you go back to the start of this, many posters have argued for a more balanced offensive attack vs being top heavy.
We have been top heavy for this entire run and if Mitch walks, the most likely next step will be us building a team that is deeper up front.
This might not work but there is definitely upside that this was always a better build mode.
Matthews/Nylander/Knies should be enough of a offensive core, that if you put enough of the right depth around them, they can be a very solid F group.
It might still not be enough to win a championship but this narrative that we're a mess or doomed to sink is a little over the top.

 

[Tony Romo]

 

[hockeywiz542]

NHL draft buzz: Peterka on the move? Sharks not set at No. 2?

The first round is Friday. Our reporters pass along the latest intel they're hearing from around the league.

www.espn.com

Where the Leafs' focus can and should be at this stage is on John Tavares. The latest word is that the two sides aren't close on an extension, and Toronto can't beat around the bush too long here, because there are not many other viable unrestricted free agent centers available.

Sam Bennett appears determined to stay in Florida. Toews and Matt Duchene have signed elsewhere. Beyond Tavares, the Leafs are looking at Mikael Granlund, Pius Suter or perhaps Claude Giroux.

There might not be much Toronto can recuperate from the Marner situation. Tavares is the opposite; he wants to be a Leaf and is willing to negotiate.

Dallas just inked Duchene to a four-year, $18 million extension. Yes, there's some creative accounting in there between the base salary and signing bonuses coupled with Duchene's continued buyout package from Nashville. However, a $4.5 million average annual value contract for Tavares isn't looking so bad when you consider the Leafs cannot lose a second-line center who just had one of his best seasons ever at age 34. And the Leafs won't have many options to replace Tavares if he accepts another team's offer (of which there could be many).

This is a critical juncture for Treliving, and considering all the factors at work, Toronto needs to put its best foot forward and get Tavares back under contract. -- Shilton

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Hertl would’ve been a solid 2C option alongside Willy

 

[JKG33]

Called it, I knew Vegas would move Hertl before Karlsson. And those Karlsson speculation posts were a pipedream