Roster Building/Team Building/Future Trade/Drafting thread.

[Americanadian]

I won't disagree at all.

I'd be willing to trade Matthews for McDavid.
I'd be willing to trade Nylander for Pastrnak.
I'd be willing to trade Knies for Makar.
...


But trading a player to a team he has on his NTC, can be done only if the player agrees. If he doesn't have a NMC he can be waived, and his Cap is reduced by around $1mm.

Obviously, you know one cannot have it both ways.

If the team and player agree to terms both the player and the team have to honour the terms of the contract.

If the team can punish the player for not waiving it opens up Matthews refusing to report to camp because he wants a trade to the NameTheTeam.
That is fair right?

If Rielly wants to go play for the NameTheTeam and there is a good deal to make, trade away. You can ask, like they did with marner. Player can say no, and everyone moves on. We can whinge about it as fans that is our right and privilege.

Of course, we live in fantasy here where we can force players to waive, and teams like Vegas like Leafs crappy assets because they want to sign marner and no other team in the league will offer better assets for Karlsson than Robertson, McMann and a 1st. in 2028.

So yes, every player is available to be traded within the rules / laws permitted.

McCabe has a 7 team no trade clause for 2 more weeks.

 

[JKG33]

For the record, I had proposed Marner to Seattle, for Wright, Bjork and 2024 1st last offseason, before trade protection kicked in. I had hoped to select Sam Dickinson, who actually went two spots later.

Seattle lacked, and still lacks elite offensive talent, and that would have been a positive move for them. I had thought Wright should emerge as a reasonable 2C in time, would be an adequate 3C for last year, and would benefit from being taught by Tavares and Matthews. As it turns out, Wright had a pretty good year, and is now trending in the "Wright" direction.

Bjork as a fill in at RW, and extra body they didn't need, and helped with their cap.

The first... Sam Dickinson... well, I mean that would have answered all of the puck moving needs going forward, wouldn't it? In a redraft, would he be top three?

It would have reset our cap, given a future 2C, and a future elite puck moving D.... Agree with you on mismanagement.

That, like many of the other Marner deals proposed, would've been perfect *chefs kiss*.

I see a lot of Bennett in Wright. Maybe not quite the same level of nastiness but I think Wright is going to be a very good player and big game kinda guy. He seems like he has that dawg in him.

While we're on the topic of Seattle.. would they do Beniers and Wright for Matthews? Seattle seems like a city where Matthews would fit in and it brings him back west.

Beniers hasn't taken the step forward offensively that many have hoped. But he's a strong two way guy that you win with on your 2nd line. Wright paired with Nylander could be fun.

Knies-Wright-Nylander
X-Beniers-X
Cowan-Tavares-Domi

Those X's would be bargain bin finds like Marchment/Coyle or a UFA like Ehlers. Maybe Schwartz comes in the trade too to make the cap work

 

[Americanadian]

For the record, I had proposed Marner to Seattle, for Wright, Bjork and 2024 1st last offseason, before trade protection kicked in. I had hoped to select Sam Dickinson, who actually went two spots later.

Seattle lacked, and still lacks elite offensive talent, and that would have been a positive move for them. I had thought Wright should emerge as a reasonable 2C in time, would be an adequate 3C for last year, and would benefit from being taught by Tavares and Matthews. As it turns out, Wright had a pretty good year, and is now trending in the "Wright" direction.

Bjork as a fill in at RW, and extra body they didn't need, and helped with their cap.

The first... Sam Dickinson... well, I mean that would have answered all of the puck moving needs going forward, wouldn't it? In a redraft, would he be top three?

It would have reset our cap, given a future 2C, and a future elite puck moving D.... Agree with you on mismanagement.

This would have been a year late. His trade protection kicked in July 1st, 2023.

It’s unlikely they would have pulled that level of value for a rental.

Moving Marner in any of the past 4 off seasons would have been ideal but probably only possible before 2023.

 

[ULF_55]

It really doesnt. Which is why I'm ready to write-off the whole thing for 2027-28 when they actually have a 1st again.

Just like everything else this organization's done the last 9 years, the timing sucks. We're 2-3 years late (if not more) with moving on from Marner. Had it been done then, they'd not only have gotten assets for him, but that $10m in open space would've gone a lot further than it will this offseason with the rising cap. Just a masterclass in mismanagement by Shanahan and Dubas

Writing it off should entail moving Matthews.

Now that would be exciting.

 

[ULF_55]

McCabe has a 7 team no trade clause for 2 more weeks.

Ah, the old bait and switch?

Like the car dealership that sells cars that will breakdown and stays in business because they just hook the next sucker up. Repeat customers? Probably not.

Legal yes.

 

[Americanadian]

Ah, the old bait and switch?

Like the car dealership that sells cars that will breakdown and stays in business because they just hook the next sucker up. Repeat customers? Probably not.

Legal yes.

It would be the first time in almost 12 months that a player on a long-term deal was traded just before their trade protection kicked in. I wonder how that worked for Tampa - have they been able to sign anyone since they traded Sergachev?

 

[Fogelhund]

This would have been a year late. His trade protection kicked in July 1st, 2023.

It’s unlikely they would have pulled that level of value for a rental.

Moving Marner in any of the past 4 off seasons would have been ideal but probably only possible before 2023.

Indeed on the NMC.. in any case, I thought moving Marner last off season was the right move.

It's funny, deadline moves, of players that caliber get that type of return fairly regularly.... and Seattle would have been given the opportunity to discuss an extension anyway, so it really wouldn't be your typical "rental".

Seattle is still a team that lacks the talent to compete...

 

[Americanadian]

Indeed on the NMC.. in any case, I thought moving Marner last off season was the right move.

It's funny, deadline moves, of players that caliber get that type of return fairly regularly.... and Seattle would have been given the opportunity to discuss an extension anyway, so it really wouldn't be your typical "rental".

Seattle is still a team that lacks the talent to compete...

What rental has ever returned a known top 10 pick, a 20 year old former 4OA and a winger with term that is valued at a 1st+?

I would imagine it would look similar to the Debrincat to Ottawa deal except instead of a 1st+2nd+3rd it would be 2 1st level assets like 8OA+Wright OR Bjorkstrand. Debrincat also came with 2 years of team control.

For reference I was proposing Wilson+8OA at the 2023 draft prior to the NMC and I think at that time it would have been fair value for 2 years of Marner.

 

[Fogelhund]

What rental has ever returned a known top 10 pick, a 20 year old former 4OA and a winger with term that is valued at a 1st+?

I would imagine it would look similar to the Debrincat to Ottawa deal except instead of a 1st+2nd+3rd it would be 2 1st level assets like 8OA+Wright OR Bjorkstrand. Debrincat also came with 2 years of team control.

For reference I was proposing Wilson+8OA at the 2023 draft prior to the NMC and I think at that time it would have been fair value for 2 years of Marner.

Bjork would have had to be moved for Cap reasons.

 

[TMLAM34]

So these are the more impactful forwards rumoured to be available via trade,

Trevor Zegras, Elias Lindholm, Pavel Zacha, Jesperi Kotkaniemi, Tyler Bertuzzi, Charlie Coyle, Ross Colton, Mason Marchment, Evander Kane, Marco Rossi, Jonathan Marchessault and Mika Zibanejad.

I would be very interested to see what Evander Kane would cost?

 

[ULF_55]

It would be the first time in almost 12 months that a player on a long-term deal was traded just before their trade protection kicked in. I wonder how that worked for Tampa - have they been able to sign anyone since they traded Sergachev?

No tax state.
No fan interference.

Guentzel like?

7@$9mm (7*$11mm Toronto money)

Sergachev ... June 29, 2024.

 

[sxvnert]

Domi, Max $3,750,000/3yrs
Kampf, David $2,400,000/2yrs
Jarnkrok, Calle $2,100,000/1yr
2nd/3rd Picks or Prospects
$8,250,000
for
Zibanejad, Mika $8,500,000/5yrs

--------------------------------------------------

Knies Matthews -----------
Ehlers Zibanejad Nylander
Laughton Kadri Tanev

 

[JKG33]

Ehlers Zibanejad Nylander

I dont think its possible to spend $30m on a trio as soft or as defensively irresponsible as that line. Well done?

 

[ULF_55]

What rental has ever returned a known top 10 pick, a 20 year old former 4OA and a winger with term that is valued at a 1st+?

I would imagine it would look similar to the Debrincat to Ottawa deal except instead of a 1st+2nd+3rd it would be 2 1st level assets like 8OA+Wright OR Bjorkstrand. Debrincat also came with 2 years of team control.

For reference I was proposing Wilson+8OA at the 2023 draft prior to the NMC and I think at that time it would have been fair value for 2 years of Marner.

Wright or Berniers would have been interesting.

Definitely not in the homerun category, but nothing wrong with a couple of doubles.

Maybe with Matthews, Nylander and Tavares they live up to their draft position?

There is quite a difference between Debrincat and marner though.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Wonder what Ryan Hartman would cost to acquire in a trade?

 

[TMLAM34]

I wonder if you would be able to acquire Rossi for pretty cheap. With our lack of center depth (and I know he’s not the type to change our “DNA”, it would need to be from other moves) it would definitely be worth the gamble. Matthews - Rossi - Tavares - Laughton looks pretty good down the middle.

 

[Fogelhund]

Domi, Max $3,750,000/3yrs
Kampf, David $2,400,000/2yrs
Jarnkrok, Calle $2,100,000/1yr
2nd/3rd Picks or Prospects
$8,250,000
for
Zibanejad, Mika $8,500,000/5yrs

--------------------------------------------------

Knies Matthews -----------
Ehlers Zibanejad Nylander
Laughton Kadri Tanev

Appreciate that Zbad is close to a cap dump at this point from their perspective... and while I appreciate that ours aren't much better, I do think we can get "some assets" for them, and all of that isn't necessary at all. Domi alone is enough... or a 3rd. They are also looking to open up cap space, and this doesn't do that for them.

 

[Fogelhund]

I wonder if you would be able to acquire Rossi for pretty cheap. With our lack of center depth (and I know he’s not the type to change our “DNA”, it would need to be from other moves) it would definitely be worth the gamble. Matthews - Rossi - Tavares - Laughton looks pretty good down the middle.

They won't be in on Rossi.

 

[rumman]

If Matthews isn't healthy, and near his best, does any of this matter anyway? It doesn't matter who we get, who we surround them with.

The smart play id to convince 34 to alliw a trade to wherever he wants including whatever team his little buddy signs with, if a value trade us available get out while you still can, guy’s vslue is in serious decline……..

 

[Fogelhund]

The smart play id to convince 34 to alliw a trade to wherever he wants including whatever team his little buddy signs with, if a value trade us available get out while you still can, guy’s vslue is in serious decline……..

It's something I've considered as well. He's just not been reliable enough to be counted on, and even then, never really made a huge difference.

The problem being, you really aren't going to contend without him either, and we gave away all of our draft picks, so a rebuild is going to be tough under such a scenario. You aren't getting a 1C back... so the hope is somehow you build really nice depth, and hope McDavid signs here... which is pretty pie in the sky stuff.

My favourite idea, was Byfield + Clarke + 1st. @JKG33 probably hates it... LOL

But you do get a C, a potential top D, and a first back... But our team is likely worse after, lacking much in draft capital, and just hoping we get the right UFA, at the right price.

Plus, let's face it... it would be pretty shocking to see Management actually pull such a move, but in all probability, in three years, we'll look back and agree we should have done it now. I'd love to be proven wrong on that... but....

 

[JKG33]

Appreciate that Zbad is close to a cap dump at this point from their perspective... and while I appreciate that ours aren't much better, I do think we can get "some assets" for them, and all of that isn't necessary at all. Domi alone is enough... or a 3rd. They are also looking to open up cap space, and this doesn't do that for them.

Yea with a thin UFA pool and a rising cap, those cap dumps like Domi/Kampf/Jarnkrok could at least restock the team with mid round picks.

It's something I've considered as well. He's just not been reliable enough to be counted on, and even then, never really made a huge difference.

The problem being, you really aren't going to contend without him either, and we gave away all of our draft picks, so a rebuild is going to be tough under such a scenario. You aren't getting a 1C back... so the hope is somehow you build really nice depth, and hope McDavid signs here... which is pretty pie in the sky stuff.

Thats what I like about my Seattle idea. You could probably get one of if not both of Beniers + Wright from a team desperate to improve.

My favourite idea, was Byfield + Clarke + 1st. @JKG33 probably hates it... LOL

But you do get a C, a potential top D, and a first back... But our team is likely worse after, lacking much in draft capital, and just hoping we get the right UFA, at the right price.

Plus, let's face it... it would be pretty shocking to see Management actually pull such a move, but in all probability, in three years, we'll look back and agree we should have done it now. I'd love to be proven wrong on that... but....

Yup you're right I do.

Fwiw I think Byfield is pretty useless. I hated that pick at the time, and Stutzle has continued to make LA look stupid. But at the same time I recognize Byfield probably has some decent value still around the league. Which is why I'm against it. Thats a lotta value for a player that ain't it.

If you like Byfield, then him + the 1st for Matthews is probably closer to fair value. Slight addition from LA but Clarke being in there makes it ridiculously lopsided in favor of Toronto. I would very happily trade Byfield, but for a player that isn't Matthews.

 

[shortfuze]

The smart play id to convince 34 to alliw a trade to wherever he wants including whatever team his little buddy signs with, if a value trade us available get out while you still can, guy’s vslue is in serious decline……..

why? cause you say so?

 

[Fogelhund]

Yea with a thin UFA pool and a rising cap, those cap dumps like Domi/Kampf/Jarnkrok could at least restock the team with mid round picks.

Thats what I like about my Seattle idea. You could probably get one of if not both of Beniers + Wright from a team desperate to improve.


Yup you're right I do.

Fwiw I think Byfield is pretty useless. I hated that pick at the time, and Stutzle has continued to make LA look stupid. But at the same time I recognize Byfield probably has some decent value still around the league. Which is why I'm against it. Thats a lotta value for a player that ain't it.

If you like Byfield, then him + the 1st for Matthews is probably closer to fair value. Slight addition from LA but Clarke being in there makes it ridiculously lopsided in favor of Toronto. I would very happily trade Byfield, but for a player that isn't Matthews.

Disagree on Clarke + Byfield, but appreciate your viewpoint.

Beniers + Wright would be interesting. It would give you a ton of cap space to work with, and reset the team... I think they would struggle, but then if you spent the cap right, they might be competitive.

 

[Malachi Crunch]

So these are the more impactful forwards rumoured to be available via trade,

Trevor Zegras, Elias Lindholm, Pavel Zacha, Jesperi Kotkaniemi, Tyler Bertuzzi, Charlie Coyle, Ross Colton, Mason Marchment, Evander Kane, Marco Rossi, Jonathan Marchessault and Mika Zibanejad.

I would be very interested to see what Evander Kane would cost?

I would love Zacha for 2C. He's good both defensively and offensively - what we need for the second line. Also gritty enough to change the DNA, somewhat. Cheap too (4.7). What would it cost? As long as it's not Cowan, I'm good.

 

[Malachi Crunch]

Friedman hinted that Toews is not coming to Toronto. Jets or Avalanche, most likely.