Roster Building/Team Building/Future Trade/Drafting thread.

[Trapper]

In Toronto we usually only buy high and sell low.

And we like to sign those players to support our stars that declined 4 years ago.
Some teams acquire Marchand and Perry, we prefer Thornton, Simmonds, Reaves and Owen Nolan back in the day.

 

[weems]

Having read those threads myself including the OEL one I bumped the other day there are many posts saying how it’s a bad signing based on the player’s performance.

So no it’s not a silly take at all. However the reactions were

This is accurate.
Tanev forsure was criticized mostly due to the length of contract but with OEL, many who were critical of the signing was because they thought the player just wasn't very good.

 

[Americanadian]

McCabe to Walman is a huge downgrade. McCabe is the teams best defenseman and part of one of the best shutdown pairs in the league. Walman is an offensive guy who could not replace him at all.

Are you looking to replace him or are you looking for a better puck mover alongside Tanev?

 

[Fogelhund]

Are you looking to replace him or are you looking for a better puck mover alongside Tanev?

The right move is upgrading one of the weaker links, not moving out one of the better D.

Benoit is easily the weakest of our D, so if you are looking to make the team better... that's the guy. He'd be a good #7D.

 

[JKG33]

The fall off from McCabe to Walman and Woll to Talbot is next to minimal compared to the increased forward depth.

Talbot is ass. Theres a reason Detroit picked up Mrazek as an upgrade

 

[JKG33]

I think with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares the Leafs couldnt really afford anyone over $5 million. I am hoping the Leafs can sign Knies at closer to $7 million x 7-8 years but I guess we will see. I dont think he should be over $8 million and he should have 8 years at that amount. As much as we all love him, I dont think he has 80+ point upside. I see him more as a 60 point player. Nylander has more offensive upside imo.

With the new cap and a largely unproven Coronoto getting $6.5m in Calgary, Knies is going to cost minimum $9m on a long term deal and I'd happily do it. Contracts are going to get stupid again within the next few years.

$6 million for Stolarz is a bit rich imo. He has fit in amazing but I think at $6 million a team would want a goalie who can play 50+ regular season games + playoffs.

Yea I'd prefer Stolarz closer to $5m given his inability to play a full season.

But getting that tandem at around $10m (or less) is one of the better goalie values in the league

 

[ULF_55]

The guy that got fired for failure?

Yeah!

I heard he's the first coach to ever be fired for failure.

 

[weems]

Which would seem to suggest that these so-called hockey fans didn't watch the Stanley Cup Final.

He had been beaten down for awhile from his time with Vancouver and I'm pretty sure the analytics people didn't really like him much.

 

[ToneDog]

Seen the name Zbin mentioned here. This morning they talked about acquiring him for a song to be our #2C. He's got 5 years at $8.5m but his points have trended down the last 2 seasons. I like the guy but he does not have the DNA Tre is looking for. Rather Kadri but the Flames are not giving him away.

 

[Americanadian]

The right move is upgrading one of the weaker links, not moving out one of the better D.

Benoit is easily the weakest of our D, so if you are looking to make the team better... that's the guy. He'd be a good #7D.

I proposed doing both in the aforementioned post.

 

[Americanadian]

Talbot is ass. Theres a reason Detroit picked up Mrazek as an upgrade

Talbot has played 100 games over the last 2 seasons and posted above 900 sv%. I’m not claiming he’s a savior but can he be a capable back up? I think yes.

 

[ULF_55]

Which would seem to suggest that these so-called hockey fans didn't watch the Stanley Cup Final.

Or listen to /read comments from his ex-teammates.

He just isn't the player who signed that huge contract.

Kind of like Rielly/Jones on a contract that might be an overpay.

 

[JKG33]

Talbot has played 100 games over the last 2 seasons and posted above 900 sv%. I’m not claiming he’s a savior but can he be a capable back up? I think yes.

I watched him shit the bed enough in LA. He'd be a fine backup if your starter is a horse. But with Stolarz as a starter you need a 1B

 

[Fogelhund]

I proposed doing both in the aforementioned post.

I get what you are trying to say.. but no.... If you are upgrading, it's move out the weakest link first.... Ok, you did that with Benoit... and then move to the next weakest link, to upgrade that... which you didn't do. Replacing McCabe with Walman!! is a distinct downgrade. I get it's a different set of tools, but overall, it's not an upgrade.

The reality is that you can't really move McCabe, Tanev or OEL and get better. They are on cap hits, where we are getting surplus value for their hit. The same is likely with Carlo too, and given Tre just acquired him, he's likely to stay.

The guys to move are Rielly, and Benoit... however, we all know that the odds they would actually move Rielly are extremely low. So it's pretty much Benoit.....

 

[JKG33]

I get what you are trying to say.. but no.... If you are upgrading, it's move out the weakest link first.... Ok, you did that with Benoit... and then move to the next weakest link, to upgrade that... which you didn't do. Replacing McCabe with Walman!! is a distinct downgrade. I get it's a different set of tools, but overall, it's not an upgrade.

The reality is that you can't really move McCabe, Tanev or OEL and get better. They are on cap hits, where we are getting surplus value for their hit. The same is likely with Carlo too, and given Tre just acquired him, he's likely to stay.

The guys to move are Rielly, and Benoit... however, we all know that the odds they would actually move Rielly are extremely low. So it's pretty much Benoit.....

Well said. That middle 4 defence group all have excellent cap hits and are very adequate for their roles. And honestly I'm fine with Benoit as the #6 as well.

The only way I'm tinkering with that group is if someone like Ekblad is available and wants to come to Toronto. Anyone lesser and youre just wasting assets/cap on someone that's a marginal upgrade at best. And then you have to figure out what to do with Rielly too.

 

[Fogelhund]

Well said. That middle 4 defence group all have excellent cap hits and are very adequate for their roles. And honestly I'm fine with Benoit as the #6 as well.

The only way I'm tinkering with that group is if someone like Ekblad is available and wants to come to Toronto. Anyone lesser and youre just wasting assets/cap on someone that's a marginal upgrade at best. And then you have to figure out what to do with Rielly too.

Benoit looks really good out there. He can skate, he's tough, he plays the right way...

But he bleeds chances against, and our results with him on the ice is pretty terrible. Worst on the team in possession, Goal %, Expected Goal %,

We need an addition, of a guy who can move the puck better, and well... he's the guy we need to look at for that fix. I'm happy trying to go with a 6/7 rotation though, depending on circumstances... and our challenge is allocating a spot, without a lot of cap room to spend on the spot.

Ekblad would be a nice add, but we would be so thin up front to do it, without moving off of Rielly's cap hit... which again, doesn't seem likely.

Now, I know this one is going to get you in the gut... LOL... but the guy we should add, is Brandt Clarke. I know he's not going to be available... but he's going to be a player, and would be the exact right addition to the Leafs, in lieu of Benoit.

 

[Americanadian]

I get what you are trying to say.. but no.... If you are upgrading, it's move out the weakest link first.... Ok, you did that with Benoit... and then move to the next weakest link, to upgrade that... which you didn't do. Replacing McCabe with Walman!! is a distinct downgrade. I get it's a different set of tools, but overall, it's not an upgrade.

The reality is that you can't really move McCabe, Tanev or OEL and get better. They are on cap hits, where we are getting surplus value for their hit. The same is likely with Carlo too, and given Tre just acquired him, he's likely to stay.

The guys to move are Rielly, and Benoit... however, we all know that the odds they would actually move Rielly are extremely low. So it's pretty much Benoit.....

Why is everyone not available to improve the overall team?

 

[JKG33]

Benoit looks really good out there. He can skate, he's tough, he plays the right way...

But he bleeds chances against, and our results with him on the ice is pretty terrible. Worst on the team in possession, Goal %, Expected Goal %,

We need an addition, of a guy who can move the puck better, and well... he's the guy we need to look at for that fix. I'm happy trying to go with a 6/7 rotation though, depending on circumstances... and our challenge is allocating a spot, without a lot of cap room to spend on the spot.

Ekblad would be a nice add, but we would be so thin up front to do it, without moving off of Rielly's cap hit... which again, doesn't seem likely.

Now, I know this one is going to get you in the gut... LOL... but the guy we should add, is Brandt Clarke. I know he's not going to be available... but he's going to be a player, and would be the exact right addition to the Leafs, in lieu of Benoit.

Thats a fair assessment. I just think though for a #6 I'd gladly take that kind of liability to keep some toughness in the lineup but I get completely why you'd want to upgrade.

Ekblad I'd happily add even without moving out Rielly. Obviously would be good to move him, but simply adding Ekblad gives you so much depth.. you can afford to spend less on forwards because that team would be elite defensively. But its probably a moot point, I doubt Ekblad has interest.

The conversation on Clarke would be a short one. Knies 1 for 1 or GTFO lol.

Now if thats the type of D man you want, Spence is a poor man's Clarke and sounds like he's very available. He's probably someone that would need to be babysat so that'd unfortunately mean breaking up McCabe/Tanev. But Spence probably wouldnt cost much more than a 2nd if the Leafs want to continue to bleed draft picks.

A bigger trade I could see is Rielly with maybe about a million or two retained (if he'd agree) for Moore+Spence. Rielly could have more offensive freedom next to Doughty who's losing his touch offensively but is still very good at defence. For Toronto, Moore is the type of value you want next to Matthews (Moore-Matthews-Domi ?) yet LA seems interested in upgrading via UFA.

 

[Torontonian]

I don’t understand why there’s so many untouchables for a team that can’t get past the 2nd round.

Woll could be their most tradeable asset. It also depends if Tre intends to extend Stolarz this July.

Stolarz has a injury history, you probably shouldn't take away from the most valuable postion when they are at a bargain.

Stolarz was out for 2 months last season, if you trade Woll for example, it's now on Hildebeast or another not so good goalie to play 25 games.

Nothing can sink your seasons or playoffs as quickly as bad/inconsistent goaltending.

 

[Americanadian]

Stolarz has a injury history, you probably shouldn't take away from the most valuable postion when they are at a bargain.

Stolarz was out for 2 months last season, if you trade Woll for example, it's now on Hildebeast or another no so good goalie to play 25 games.

I proposed Talbot who was perfectly fine last season. Are you losing a significant amount of games going from 909 sv% to 901 for 25-30 games?

 

[thusk]

The fall off from McCabe to Walman and Woll to Talbot is next to minimal compared to the increased forward depth.

You know Talbot is the 2nd oldest active goalie in the NHL not far away Jonathan Quick and never be anything more than a good back up? That's really the option you want as the most important position if Stolarz can't handle a hard work load? It's a massive downgrade

The diffence between your top D vs Walman is much higher than the difference between domi or mcmann to play alongside 2 elite player in matthews and knies or the difference between exemple a Dvorak and Coyle. I don't think you really realize the impact of McCabe...

 

[Americanadian]

I watched him shit the bed enough in LA. He'd be a fine backup if your starter is a horse. But with Stolarz as a starter you need a 1B

What is the definition of shit the bed? He put up a 913 sv% in 54 games in LA. I get he’s not a Vezina guy but does he really need a horse in front of him or can he play 30+ games?

 

[JKG33]

What is the definition of shit the bed? He put up a 913 sv% in 54 games in LA. I get he’s not a Vezina guy but does he really need a horse in front of him or can he play 30+ games?

He was hot for the 1st month or two of the season which propped up his SV%, but from December on it was BAD

 

[Americanadian]

You know Talbot is the 2nd oldest active goalie in the NHL not far away Jonathan Quick and never be anything more than a good back up? That's really the option you want as the most important position if Stolarz can't handle a hard work load? It's a massive downgrade

Again - as I just stated, you’re going from 909 sv% to 901. That’s a difference of 8 goals every 1000 shots.

The diffence between your top D vs Walman is much higher than the difference between domi or mcmann to play alongside 2 elite player in matthews and knies or the difference between exemple a Dvorak and Coyle. I don't think you really realize the impact of McCabe...

I’m a huge McCabe fan but I’m also not locked into the idea that any player on the team is untouchable. I completely disagree that the difference between McCabe and Walman is larger than the difference between McMann and Rust as I proposed.

 

[Americanadian]

He was hot for the 1st month or two of the season which propped up his SV%, but from December on it was BAD

He had a 909 sv% in 38GP from December onward in the 23-24 season.