Roster Building/Team Building/Future Trade/Drafting thread.

[Shanwhatplan]

I don't understand the enjoyment of watching a good team that you know won't win.

It's not like the Leafs losing Marner means they are automatically in the Kessel/Bozak era. Nylander/Matthews/Knies are more exciting to watch than any player from the Kessel/Bozak era.

Agreed, but the problem is we have holes that need to be filled, but aside from Knies and Cowan the cupboard is a little bare and then add on the fact we don’t have any 1st round picks for the next 3 years and not many draft picks in general. And the cherry on top is the UFA class this summer is nothing to write home about.
Our only hope this offseason is that Tre can somehow sign/trade for players who will balance the lines out more, wth precious little to include in any trades.

 

[seanlinden]

Elias Lindholm out of Boston is an interesting option. Tre and him have a history and the Boston may even pay to dump him, or at least retain some salary.

There's a gamble he doesn't rebound of course

If Boston is genine about "undoing" the Lindholm deal, then Toronto should really be banging down their doors.... even if you can do something like Lindholm for a 4th, no retention.

Him, Matthews, and Tavares at centre would be a near-perfect group in my view. Matthess and Lindholm that are elite defensively. One elite offensively, the other 2 very good.

Look at the lineup as "pairs"....

Matthews & Domi (or maybe Patrick Kane?)
Lindholm & Nylander
Tavares & Cowan

Keep Jarnkrok around as a guy that you can put out with Lindholm for a shutdown unit, as required. Left side Knies, McMann, and either Domi or another acquisition.

 

[Americanadian]

Elias Lindholm out of Boston is an interesting option. Tre and him have a history and the Boston may even pay to dump him, or at least retain some salary.

There's a gamble he doesn't rebound of course

I would do this if Boston took bad money back like Rielly or Domi.

 

[seanlinden]

I would do this if Boston took bad money back like Rielly or Domi.

Ask yourself an honest question...

If Lindholm was a UFA now... would you sign him for 6x7.75? I would.

Furthermore... you have to ask yourself, if Domi was a current ufa, would he get offers from multiple teams for his current contract? I believe so.

Ultimately, both of these guys likely have positive value... albeit not substantial.

 

[Americanadian]

Going for a very simple roster using the template of 1 big trade, 1 big UFA, 1 offer sheet:

Trade:
McCabe+Kampf for Danault
Robertson+86OA for TOR 26 2nd (CHI owns)
Jarnkrok for future considerations (PIT)

UFA:
Marchand 7.5Mx3
Perbix 2.5Mx4
Raddysh 2Mx3
Tanev 2Mx2
Tavares 4Mx?

RFA:
Knies 6.5Mx3
Holmberg 1.15Mx2
Samoskevich 4.68Mx3 (TOR 26 2nd)

Knies-Matthews-Domi
Marchand-Danault-Nylander
McMann-Tavares-Samoskevich
Tanev-Laughton-Raddysh
Holmberg

Rielly-Tanev
OEL-Carlo
Benoit-Perbix
Myers

Stolarz
Woll

Cap space: 30k

Full disclosure I don't think this roster is good enough to win but I was trying to make as little moves as possible.

 

[Dreakmur]

If I'm Toronto I'm packaging what's required to get back the 2026 2nd from Chicago (probably just the 25 2nd straight up or 25 3rd+Robertson) and I'm offer sheeting Samoskevich at 4.68Mx3.

I’m pretty sure Florida would take the 2nd round pick and let Toronto pay 4.68 million bucks for a guy who can’t make their roster.

Nick Robertson has produced better than Samoskevich thus far.

Age 22 seasons:
Samoskovich - 15 goals, 16 assist, with 13:19 minutes per game in 72 games. 11 point on the pp.
Robertson - 14 goals, 13 assists, with 11:23 minutes per game in 56 games. 3 points on the pp.

After not matching, Florida probably trades that 2nd round pick for a better player on a cheaper contract.

 

[Americanadian]

Ask yourself an honest question...

If Lindholm was a UFA now... would you sign him for 6x7.75? I would.

Absolutely not. That contract was widely viewed as bad last year and he didn't do much to turn around that perception.

Furthermore... you have to ask yourself, if Domi was a current ufa, would he get offers from multiple teams for his current contract? I believe so.

Also no.

 

[Americanadian]

I’m pretty sure Florida would take the 2nd round pick and let Toronto pay 4.68 million bucks for a guy who can’t make their roster.

Nick Robertson has produced better than Samoskevich thus far.

Age 22 seasons:
Samoskovich - 15 goals, 16 assist, with 13:19 minutes per game in 72 games. 11 point on the pp.
Robertson - 14 goals, 13 assists, with 11:23 minutes per game in 56 games. 3 points on the pp.

After not matching, Florida probably trades that 2nd round pick for a better player on a cheaper contract.

I'll take the guy who's 2 inches taller and actually throws the body.

He's not the type of 4th liner Florida wants and he's not cracking their top 9. I view his offense similar to Coronato but he threw more hits as a rookie than Coronato will in his career.

Toronto needs youth, I view a Samoskevich offer sheet as their best chance to get a good young player who can play on their top 3 lines for a decade. He's also a RS RW which they will soon have 1 of (Nylander).

 

[Dreakmur]

I'll take the guy who's 2 inches taller and actually throws the body.

He did hit a lot this year, but I’m not sure that’s a characteristic he carries to a non-Florida team. He’s never been a particularly physical player.

He's not the type of 4th liner Florida wants and he's not cracking their top 9. I view his offense similar to Coronato but he threw more hits as a rookie than Coronato will in his career.

Toronto needs youth, I view a Samoskevich offer sheet as their best chance to get a good young player who can play on their top 3 lines for a decade. He's also a RS RW which they will soon have 1 of (Nylander).

Other than the right-handed part, that all sounds like Nick Robertson.

 

[Americanadian]

He did hit a lot this year, but I’m not sure that’s a characteristic he carries to a non-Florida team. He’s never been a particularly physical player.

Is that what you gathered when you were watching him at Michigan? Or did you watch a lot of Checkers games last season?

Other than the right-handed part, that all sounds like Nick Robertson.

It sounds like Ronertson because he’s also young? What else makes them comparable? Robertson doesn’t pass, that severely limits his top 6 potential. He’s like Kapanen.

 

[rumman]

Elias Lindholm out of Boston is an interesting option. Tre and him have a history and the Boston may even pay to dump him, or at least retain some salary.

There's a gamble he doesn't rebound of course

I was hoping to sign him last season, I doubt Boston gives up on him one year into a injury plagued season…….

 

[LeafChief]

Would love to get the off-season started with a soft deal for Marchment (along with Knies and Tavares extensions).

Lets get all of that done before the draft.

 

[Dreakmur]

Is that what you gathered when you were watching him at Michigan? Or did you watch a lot of Checkers games last season?

Nope, but I did read scouting reports.

It sounds like Ronertson because he’s also young? What else makes them comparable? Robertson doesn’t pass, that severely limits his top 6 potential. He’s like Kapanen.

A small offensive player who doesn't produce well enough to make the top-9, and doesn't bring enough else to crack the bottom line.

Look, I think there's some untapped upside in Samoskevich, but a 4.68 million dollar offer sheet? That's way too much. I'd rather just keep Robertson for free on a much cheaper contract.

 

[Americanadian]

Nope, but I did read scouting reports.

A small offensive player who doesn't produce well enough to make the top-9, and doesn't bring enough else to crack the bottom line.

"And while he’s not a big player, he’s an athletic one whose decent strength through the base of his stride allows him to keep sequences alive — and who has upped his competitiveness in the last couple of years." -The Athletic 2024

Look, I think there's some untapped upside in Samoskevich, but a 4.68 million dollar offer sheet? That's way too much. I'd rather just keep Robertson for free on a much cheaper contract.

I'll take the better, younger player with the well rounded game who has a clear opportunity to play in the top 6 vs a LS LW who need to beat out McMann, Knies, maybe Laughton and maybe a UFA to play top 6 minutes.

Again - I see the comparable as a more physical Coronato.

 

[seanlinden]

Absolutely not. That contract was widely viewed as bad last year and he didn't do much to turn around that perception.

Also no.

He may notbhave done much to improve his stock... but the cap has adjusted wildly since then.

The days of being able to get a #2c for less than $8m are likely gone.

 

[Dreakmur]

"And while he’s not a big player, he’s an athletic one whose decent strength through the base of his stride allows him to keep sequences alive — and who has upped his competitiveness in the last couple of years." -The Athletic 2024

Wow, he "upped his competitiveness". Sounds like he's a borderline enforcer....

I'll take the better, younger player with the well rounded game who has a clear opportunity to play in the top 6 vs a LS LW who need to beat out McMann, Knies, maybe Laughton and maybe a UFA to play top 6 minutes.

The better player who produces at a substantially lower rate?

Again - I see the comparable as a more physical Coronato.

If we acquire him, I hope you're right....

 

[Americanadian]

Wow, he "upped his competitiveness". Sounds like he's a borderline enforcer....

You’re the one saying he’s never been physical and his new found physicality is an anomaly.

The better player who produces at a substantially lower rate?

Does goals=better? I’m talking about overall play. McMann scores at a better rate than Sherwood but is anybody taking McMann over Sherwood?

 

[Americanadian]

He may notbhave done much to improve his stock... but the cap has adjusted wildly since then.

The days of being able to get a #2c for less than $8m are likely gone.

The issue is - how long is Lindholm going to be a top 60 C? Is he a 2C today? Sure.

Is he a 2C in year 3/7? It’s a gamble.

I’d think the Leafs would be better off grabbing Coyle who is worse today but is 2.5M cheaper and you get to walk free next summer and chase a better player.

 

[Dreakmur]

You’re the one saying he’s never been physical and his new found physicality is an anomaly.

He wasn't and it might be.

Does goals=better? I’m talking about overall play.

Goals and points... and they both suck defensively, right?

McMann scores at a better rate than Sherwood but is anybody taking McMann over Sherwood?

If it was just a question of which player do you prefer, yeah I'd take Samoskevich over Robertson. That's not the choice.

The real choice would be to keep McMann at 1.35 million or trade a 2nd round pick for Sherwood at 5 million.

 

[Americanadian]

He wasn't and it might be.

Can you share the scouting reports you’re citing that say he’s not physical?

Goals and points... and they both suck defensively, right?

No. I’d actually say both are perfectly fine defensively, although Robertson can’t stay on his feet.

If it was just a question of which player do you prefer, yeah I'd take Samoskevich over Robertson. That's not the choice.

The real choice would be to keep McMann at 1.35 million or trade a 2nd round pick for Sherwood at 5 million.

I proposed Robertson+3rd (86OA) to get the pick back to move for Samoskevich. Is that fair value for the gap between the players? For me yes.

Is the gap between them 2.5-3M? In year 1 probably not, going forward I think it’s likely.

 

[Dreakmur]

Can you share the scouting reports you’re citing that say he’s not physical?

Here's a few.

Sportscorcaster - "The talented forward really stands out with the puck on his stick. He has the speed and hands to beat defenders on the move. His playmaking skills are solid and he has a shot that can beat goaltenders from midrange. He is a bit on the small side and is not particularly physical. Also, his defensive play is a work in progress."

Ben Gehrels (2023) - "he still has work to do regarding board play and strength conditioning"

Tony Ferarri (2021) - "His ineffectiveness defensively could be part of the reason he may translate better on the wing at the next level"

The only positive I found about his physicality was "plays with fearlessness" by a single scout.

No. I’d actually say both are perfectly fine defensively, although Robertson can’t stay on his feet.

I proposed Robertson+3rd (86OA) to get the pick back to move for Samoskevich. Is that fair value for the gap between the players? For me yes.

Is the gap between them 2.5-3M? In year 1 probably not, going forward I think it’s likely.

You're a gambler. It could pay off, or not.

 

[Skullz]

Elias Lindholm out of Boston is an interesting option. Tre and him have a history and the Boston may even pay to dump him, or at least retain some salary.

There's a gamble he doesn't rebound of course

I would absolutely inquire.

 

[Americanadian]

Here's a few.

Sportscorcaster - "The talented forward really stands out with the puck on his stick. He has the speed and hands to beat defenders on the move. His playmaking skills are solid and he has a shot that can beat goaltenders from midrange. He is a bit on the small side and is not particularly physical. Also, his defensive play is a work in progress."

Ben Gehrels (2023) - "he still has work to do regarding board play and strength conditioning"

Tony Ferarri (2021) - "His ineffectiveness defensively could be part of the reason he may translate better on the wing at the next level"

The only positive I found about his physicality was "plays with fearlessness" by a single scout.

Fair play. It looks like the latest scouting report is correct then and he has seen an increase in competitiveness over the years.

 

[Menzinger]

I was hoping to sign him last season, I doubt Boston gives up on him one year into a injury plagued season…….

If they start turning towards a rebuild they'll be more inclined to trade their vets

 

[Folignos Helmet]

Glass half full view.

If you retain our rfa’s at expected amounts including a bridge for Knies and you get JT back on a team friendly sub 5M deal. You have the same roster that took Florida to a seventh game with the only roster difference being Mitch and Lorenz and you have 13M give or take to upgrade. And given Mitch does little in the playoffs it’s not much of a loss

If that 13m became Marchand and P Kane and you flip Jarnkrok and Kampf for 2 bottom six guys with more jam that would be ok. But our center ice would still be a disaster.

At least that’s what I’m telling myself.