Roster Building/Team Building/Future Trade/Drafting thread.

[Menzinger]

I'm not advocating for trading McCabe, I think he's great and the Leafs best LD. If the Tre truly wants to change up their defense and add puck mover and he doesn't want to leave out Benoit, McCabe's 7 team NTC turns into a full NTC on July 1st.

I think Carlo or OEL makes more sense (though only if they're reasonably confident they will get one of the free agency top 4 guys.

What I keep coming back to is assuming they have to go the trade route for the top six centre. They're going to have to give up SOMETHING, whether its Cowan/Danford or Woll, or one of the D men. I mean maybe Florida's 2nd + gets something from a team desperate to move salary..but something is going out the door one way or the other

Look at the numbers of our bottom 6 forwards in the playoffs. We basically got zero offence from those guys

No offensive depth whatsoever yet we still took Florida to 7 games. Something Tampa, Carolina and potentially Edmonton couldn’t do

An area Tre will fix this summer hopefully or partially fix

Stolarz had a great year. If he can stay healthy we have a very good goalie. Woll needs to get better

The bottom six needs to be completely gutted and they likely need another D man who can drive offense. Tre is going to have a big shopping list between the draft through early July

 

[rumman]

I think Carlo or OEL makes more sense (though only if they're reasonably confident they will get one of the free agency top 4 guys.

What I keep coming back to is assuming they have to go the trade route for the top six centre. They're going to have to give up SOMETHING, whether its Cowan/Danford or Woll, or one of the D men. I mean maybe Florida's 2nd + gets something from a team desperate to move salary..but something is going out the door one way or the other



The bottom six needs to be completely gutted and they likely need another D man who can drive offense. Tre is going to have a big shopping list between the draft through early July

This is why I want one of 34 or 88 moved, turn it into two quality players………

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I don’t want to part with any of our defence. I want the Leafs to get another guy back their who can provide offence but not at the cost of subtracting from our D-Corps.

I’d be willing to move Danford and Woll. Less inclined to move Cowan who could be impactful within 2 years. Stolarz makes Woll redundant and with Hildeby and Akhtyamov in the system I’m less weary of dealing him. Danford will take much longer and while I really like him we’re firmly in win now mode. As long as it’s for someone actually worth it, i.e. a true top six centre or offensive top four defenseman then go for it. Better still if that player is in their early-mid twenties, like how Tampa snagged Hagel from Chicago and he’s grown into the player he is today.

 

[Legion34]

I could see moving out Carlo if you think you can get Ekblad.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I've noticed Woll in several trade proposals. I'm not ready to give up on him yet. He is still young in goaltender terms and outperformed his AAV considerably last season. He was on and off in the playoffs (so was Stolarz) but he was definitely not the reason we lost to Florida.

 

[TMLAM34]

I don’t want to part with any of our defence. I want the Leafs to get another guy back their who can provide offence but not at the cost of subtracting from our D-Corps.

I’d be willing to move Danford and Woll. Less inclined to move Cowan who could be impactful within 2 years. Stolarz makes Woll redundant and with Hildeby and Akhtyamov in the system I’m less weary of dealing him. Danford will take much longer and while I really like him we’re firmly in win now mode. As long as it’s for someone actually worth it, i.e. a true top six centre or offensive top four defenseman then go for it. Better still if that player is in their early-mid twenties, like how Tampa snagged Hagel from Chicago and he’s grown into the player he is today.

I would be open to moving Woll as well if it helps addressing another need in the lineup. Vladar is a solid option through free agency. I wouldn’t mind Jarry if Pittsburgh is willing to retain 25-50%. Sillinger would be my target using Woll as a trade chip.

 

[TMLAM34]

I've noticed Woll in several trade proposals. I'm not ready to give up on him yet. He is still young in goaltender terms and outperformed his AAV considerably last season. He was on and off in the playoffs (so was Stolarz) but he was definitely not the reason we lost to Florida.

I don’t think anyone WANTS Woll gone, I think you see him come up in trade proposals because he’s one of the very few assets that have value around the league.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I don’t think anyone WANTS Woll gone, I think you see him come up in trade proposals because he’s one of the very few assets that have value around the league.

Understood, but it would be very tough to replace his overall numbers for a comparable AAV in free agency in my opinion. With Stolarz's durability issues, we need a reliable tandem goaltender to make the playoffs, never mind in the playoffs...

 

[Gaberd2608]

I pointed this out that Toronto virtually got nothing from 6/12 forwards, and was told nonstop it's on the core forwards to essentially score every goal.

Your best players obviously need to be your best players, but depth and contributions from your entire line up wins championships.

Our depth is directly correlated to Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares % of the cap. It is shocking that Dubas still has a job in the NHL.

Matthews @ $13.325 x 4 years is a stupid contract. At least only have 2 more years until he can f*** off too.
Nylander @ $11.5 x 8 years (not a Dubas contract but take Nylander to 36 years old)
Marner @ $10.9 x 6 years (expired)
Tavares @ $11 x 7 years

These 4 forwards = more than 50% of the team cap. I think it is difficult to pin anything on depth shortcummings as we got what we paid for from the depth but not the primary players.

I agree that depth wins championships but I am not sure what the team realistically could have done since the moment Dubas gave them their RFA contracts. Had we drafted well and not wasted picks, maybe we could have had more players like Knies who outplayed their contracts. That probably would have been helpful as well.

The way these guys are paid, as far as I am concerned, they should assume 100% of the blame. They want a disproportionate amount of money but not do a disproportionate amount of work. It doesn't work that way in reality. This is why I think whoever signs Marner will end up like the Leafs.

Without Marner and Tavares we now have $25 million to 4-5 forwards.

Knies @ $7 million x 5 (He should sign for 8 but he is coached by Captain Matthews)
Tavares if he wants to come back $4 million x 6
Marchand @ $8 million x 3
Granlund @ $7.5 x 5

Knies-Matthews-Tavares
Marchand-Granlund-Nylander
McMann- -Domi
Lorentz-Laughton-
Pacioretty

I think Carlo or OEL makes more sense (though only if they're reasonably confident they will get one of the free agency top 4 guys.

What I keep coming back to is assuming they have to go the trade route for the top six centre. They're going to have to give up SOMETHING, whether its Cowan/Danford or Woll, or one of the D men. I mean maybe Florida's 2nd + gets something from a team desperate to move salary..but something is going out the door one way or the other



The bottom six needs to be completely gutted and they likely need another D man who can drive offense. Tre is going to have a big shopping list between the draft through early July

I think OEL has been really good for us and is signed to a good contract. Carlo as well is reasonably priced. I know unlikely but but I think the play is to move Reilly.

Think Vancouver would consider Reilly for Debrusk and then we take a run at Ekblad or Provorov?

 

[MarMarSab3]

Understood, but it would be very tough to replace his overall numbers for a comparable AAV in free agency in my opinion. With Stolarz's durability issues, we need a reliable tandem goaltender to make the playoffs, never mind in the playoffs...

Id gladly take a flyer on Vladar

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Prediction:

I think Treliving will have to move out someone who we are not expecting and probably a player a lot of fans like.

 

[Jozay]

There’s only like 2 guys a lot of fans like on this team lol

 

[LaPlante94]

Understood, but it would be very tough to replace his overall numbers for a comparable AAV in free agency in my opinion. With Stolarz's durability issues, we need a reliable tandem goaltender to make the playoffs, never mind in the playoffs...

Woll also has durability issues too though. I wouldn't shop him but if a team makes an offer you can't refuse you have to seriously consider that, especially if we feel good about Hildeby and the Russian with the name I cannot remember how to spell. Got Vlader as a UFA and DiPietro who has put up very good numbers in the AHL and could be looking for a chance in the NHL.

 

[Trapper]

We’re changing the bottom 6 again, brother

We’re going to jog it back instead of a full out run. The DNA change will be Marner with more money. Can’t run as fast now being weighed down.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

There’s only like 2 guys a lot of fans like on this team lol

I’d say about a third of the team is likeable, at least for me.

Knies, Stolarz, Tanev, McCabe, OEL, Benoit, Pacioretty, and Lorentz.

 

[SprDaVE]

Woll also has durability issues too though. I wouldn't shop him but if a team makes an offer you can't refuse you have to seriously consider that, especially if we feel good about Hildeby and the Russian with the name I cannot remember how to spell. Got Vlader as a UFA and DiPietro who has put up very good numbers in the AHL and could be looking for a chance in the NHL.

Yeah if there's a good deal out there that includes Woll or even Stolarz you probably think long and hard about it. I'd probably keep Woll since he's younger and locked up for awhile and Stolarz next deal might be pretty big.

Vladar isn't very good though but could be maybe be OK on a better team and maybe he has a career year? Maybe. His AHL numbers are really good.

 

[ULF_55]

I’d say about a third of the team is likeable, at least for me.

Knies, Stolarz, Tanev, McCabe, OEL, Benoit, Pacioretty, and Lorentz.

It is opposite for me.

There are very few who I dislike.

How do you dislike someone making close to minimum who will play anywhere, anytime, any role and earns his Cap?

Emotionally some players disappoint, but can you blame them for father time taking its toll?

You can be disappointed with players who don't address known issues, and coaches who turn a blind eye to it.

Style of play, avoiding hits, and I mean passing up opportunities to hit, not avoiding taking a hit. Don't take unnecessary hits, that's just stupid in a marathon. Hockey isn't a sprint. It is better person who gives than receives.

I want to see more middle 6 players, who don't take the position for granted.

 

[Folignos Helmet]

I think our best chance of trading for a decent C is McCabe and McMann plus picks or prospects. They at least hold some value and on decent contracts.
Both would be bitter pills to swallow but need to pay to get.

Separate point.
We definitely need to scour league for young guys who could pop in a different situation.

Chicago have a bunch of D and even a few young forwards who have had middling starts mostly because Chicago stinks and they haven’t surrounded them with the right pieces to grow.

They even took a flier on Victor Soderstrom from Arizona/Utah and he is stil in Sweden. High draft pick who has nt played much. High offense potential but is smaller. Those are types of guys leafs need to harvest.

 

[jiggy35]

Two deals to change the dna and make immediate upgrades:

Robertson+ for Marchment (Dallas needs to shed cap)

Niemala or Villeneuve+ for Crouse 25-50% (Utah seems to have soured and might want to take some big FA swings)

Re-signs:

Knies 6-8x7m
Tavares 4-5x4m
Lorentz 1m
Holmberg 1m

FA:

B Tanev 4x2m
T Raddysh 2x2m

Knies - Matthews - Nylander/Domi
Marchment - XXX - Domi/Nylander
McMann - Tavares - Crouse
Tanev - Laughton - Raddysh
Lorentz - Holmberg
Cowan looking to steal a job

No change to D/G

Question is who is 2C.

A: Bennett if he would come in below 8m, which is unlikely

B: Granlund 3-4x7m

C: Creative option:

It sounds like Anaheim could be serious about Marner and interested in supplementing their young roster with vets. If they add Marner alongside Kreider they have a fairly clogged top 6 and Zegras seems to be on the outside with McTavish/Carlsson/Strome, but could use more bottom 6 depth.

Maybe a big sign and trade - Marner + Kampf + Jarnkrok for Zegras + a pick.

Take a risk on Zegras in his final RFA year see if he can rekindle his first couple years, and become a more complete player under Berube. If he doesn’t, dump next offseason and go hunting for another C with him and marchment coming off the books (~10m).

 

[TMLAM34]

Two deals to change the dna and make immediate upgrades:

Robertson+ for Marchment (Dallas needs to shed cap)

Niemala or Villeneuve+ for Crouse 25-50% (Utah seems to have soured and might want to take some big FA swings)

Re-signs:

Knies 6-8x7m
Tavares 4-5x4m
Lorentz 1m
Holmberg 1m

FA:

B Tanev 4x2m
T Raddysh 2x2m

Knies - Matthews - Nylander/Domi
Marchment - XXX - Domi/Nylander
McMann - Tavares - Crouse
Tanev - Laughton - Raddysh
Lorentz - Holmberg
Cowan looking to steal a job

No change to D/G

Question is who is 2C.

A: Bennett if he would come in below 8m, which is unlikely

B: Granlund 3-4x7m

C: Creative option:

It sounds like Anaheim could be serious about Marner and interested in supplementing their young roster with vets. If they add Marner alongside Kreider they have a fairly clogged top 6 and Zegras seems to be on the outside with McTavish/Carlsson/Strome, but could use more bottom 6 depth.

Maybe a big sign and trade - Marner + Kampf + Jarnkrok for Zegras + a pick.

Take a risk on Zegras in his final RFA year see if he can rekindle his first couple years, and become a more complete player under Berube. If he doesn’t, dump next offseason and go hunting for another C with him and marchment coming off the books (~10m).

Zegras isn’t a center unfortunately or I would have definitely been down to give him a shot, he’s TERRIBLE in the face off circle.

 

[Shanwhatplan]

A name that hasn't been brought up here that I can see, is Claude Giroux. Faster than average, won't be too expensive, excellent on faceoffs, very good on the PK, good defensively, still pretty productive. Sure, he's old... but on a 2 x $5 mil contract, he'd probably provide some good value. He's a pretty good playoff guy as well.

I wouldn't mind having him if he was available, but I believe he will stay with the Sens. I think his situation is very similar to Tavares in that he's from around that area and would prefer to stay there.

 

[Shanwhatplan]

Look at the numbers of our bottom 6 forwards in the playoffs. We basically got zero offence from those guys

No offensive depth whatsoever yet we still took Florida to 7 games. Something Tampa, Carolina and potentially Edmonton couldn’t do

An area Tre will fix this summer hopefully or partially fix

Stolarz had a great year. If he can stay healthy we have a very good goalie. Woll needs to get better

I just hope that somehow we can win a Cup or two in the next few years, because not having many high draft picks since we got Cowan, as well as for the next 3 years, there will be at least a few lean years down the road.

 

[Torontonian]

Our depth is directly correlated to Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares % of the cap. It is shocking that Dubas still has a job in the NHL.

Matthews @ $13.325 x 4 years is a stupid contract. At least only have 2 more years until he can f*** off too.
Nylander @ $11.5 x 8 years (not a Dubas contract but take Nylander to 36 years old)
Marner @ $10.9 x 6 years (expired)
Tavares @ $11 x 7 years

These 4 forwards = more than 50% of the team cap. I think it is difficult to pin anything on depth shortcummings as we got what we paid for from the depth but not the primary players.

I agree that depth wins championships but I am not sure what the team realistically could have done since the moment Dubas gave them their RFA contracts. Had we drafted well and not wasted picks, maybe we could have had more players like Knies who outplayed their contracts. That probably would have been helpful as well.

The way these guys are paid, as far as I am concerned, they should assume 100% of the blame. They want a disproportionate amount of money but not do a disproportionate amount of work. It doesn't work that way in reality. This is why I think whoever signs Marner will end up like the Leafs.

Without Marner and Tavares we now have $25 million to 4-5 forwards.

Knies @ $7 million x 5 (He should sign for 8 but he is coached by Captain Matthews)
Tavares if he wants to come back $4 million x 6
Marchand @ $8 million x 3
Granlund @ $7.5 x 5

Knies-Matthews-Tavares
Marchand-Granlund-Nylander
McMann- -Domi
Lorentz-Laughton-
Pacioretty


I think OEL has been really good for us and is signed to a good contract. Carlo as well is reasonably priced. I know unlikely but but I think the play is to move Reilly.

Think Vancouver would consider Reilly for Debrusk and then we take a run at Ekblad or Provorov?

The biggest thing I am worried about with Toronto in FA is over paying mediocre players to provide nothing much. I'm also very concerned looking at the FA and the available centerman, they going to try to run JT as 2C again..


I would trade 44 for Debrusk and take a run at one of those d-man. Probably Provorov only because Ekblad has some milage on him.

Toronto needs to establish 3 scoring lines. They need more offence from the 3rd line with two way play. I think that 4th line is fine, liked Lorentz, but if they could add someone a bit more physical I'd go in that route.

 

[rumman]

Prediction:

I think Treliving will have to move out someone who we are not expecting and probably a player a lot of fans like.

If you want to get rid of the cancer, you got to get out the knife, the core if the core that are moved the better. Those guys are talented and gutless. I’d be looking to move 34 and 16’s rights for a mega package, let JT walk, apply pressure until 44 waives, and convince 88 it’s in his best interest to play elsewhere………

 

[The Shadow]

Knies is a perfect example of why you don’t trade draft picks like they’re hockey cards

You won’t hit on all of them but you need young guys coming up that can play and on a low cap hit

I’d like to see them trade Laughton at the deadline this year so he doesn’t walk for nothing

Two areas I’d like to see the organization do better

1. Asset management- don’t let players leave for nothing. Build up draft capital and young talented players

2. Build the best pro scouting team possible - make reclamation projects an absolute key part of roster building. Florida is the master at this currently