Roster Building/Team Building/Future Trade/Drafting thread.

[ToneDog]

Many people hate Simmons but he makes some very good points here.

Matthews is a great talent but he is not Sam Bennett at playoff time. Marner or Bennett in a one game, winner take all? Bennett and you hate to see it.

 

[Duffman955]

Matthews is a great talent but he is not Sam Bennett at playoff time. Marner or Bennett in a one game, winner take all? Bennett and you hate to see it.

Marner and Matthews both have better playoff PPG and are significantly better defensively

 

[Americanadian]

If we are changing the DNA to improve the team then go for it.

If we are dumping a core asset for a AHL quality player just to create cap space for next 5 years then I dont see the point.

I'm more pessimistic on this team, so I would avoid any more LT commitments to new players if possible so we can really burn this to the ground in 2028 if everything continues to suck.

Trading Rielly and then targeting 1-2 UFA D-man this year at 7M+ is not what I'd like to see.

We are running the team back despite the sayings from MLSE/Treliving with marner being only core piece likely gone.

Hope for 2 more playoff appearances and then start a big time rebuild is my strategy for now

Grabbing UFA defenseman is definitely not the strategy this year. What can you get in trade? Tampa needs cheap top 9 forwards with size - can you get Raddysh for McMann, play Benoit-Raddysh 18 minutes/night and then go after a winger with your 7.9M left over?

 

[Duffman955]

Grabbing UFA defenseman is definitely not the strategy this year. What can you get in trade? Tampa needs cheap top 9 forwards with size - can you get Raddysh for McMann, play Benoit-Raddysh 18 minutes/night and then go after a winger with your 7.4M left over?

Raddysh plays RW

 

[Americanadian]

Raddysh plays RW

Read again.

This has to be record time for someone to use the phrase “you’re embarrassing yourself” and then turn around and embarass themselves.

 

[The Shadow]

TLDW

Any Coles Notes?

Just two of the things that stood out among several was he talked about how Florida was built and broke down the players and how it started.

Talked about how they plucked these guys for very little or nothing (Forsling, Bennett, Reinhart, Verhegue etc) and how the leafs need to go through every contract in the league and find those players that have contracts that may not fit with the team they’re on.

Talked about how the tax advantages is a big non issue and again how Florida didn’t attract all these guys in free agency but traded for them. Also how many other Florida teams in their leagues like MLB/NFL are not really standouts for success.

 

[Pinkcat]

Just two of the things that stood out among several was he talked about how Florida was built and broke down the players and how it started.

Talked about how they plucked these guys for very little or nothing (Forsling, Bennett, Reinhart, Verhegue etc) and how the leafs need to go through every contract in the league and find those players that have contracts that may not fit with the team they’re on.

Talked about how the tax advantages is a big non issue and again how Florida didn’t attract all these guys in free agency but traded for them. Also how many other Florida teams in their leagues like MLB/NFL are not really standouts for success.

Highlighted how Toronto has mismanaged their cap by overpaying players too early in their careers. Mentioned Jim Nill and Bill Zito as top GMs but said he likes the direction Treliving has taken. Thinks outside of being able to sign Sam Bennett (not likely to happen) that the Leafs will have to use trades to improve the team. Said that Florida and Edmonton are head and shoulders above the rest of the league and amongst the also rans some are as good as Toronto but no one is better.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Marner and Matthews both have better playoff PPG and are significantly better defensively

Maybe, but Bennett has come through in the clutch in the playoffs many times, and that's something that we're sorely lacking.

 

[Stephen]

With the cap going up like it is... there are very, very few players in the league who do not hold at least some positive value.

Now, whether the Leafs can actually unlock that value in Rielly given his NMC, certainly a different question.

But I think you also have to realistically ask yourself... what's the point?

If you have to trade Rielly for nothing, and then have to go out and spend $8m or more on a similar defenceman, have you really pushed any further ahead?

Furthermore, you look at the Leafs overall defensive group; which at this point has kind of been built around Rielly; having Carlo & Tanev on the right side; and how they were quite happy with the group overall... and have to wonder if there is an actual point in making changes there.

Trading Rielly for nothing to sign an $8 million defenseman would essentially be trading Rielly for a D of your own choosing, so that’s not a problem whatsoever. Rielly doesn’t represent $7.5 million in value, represents job security and culture. There’s lots of baggage there that comes with mediocre on ice play.

TML are an entertainment product. And Year 14 or whatever of Morgan Rielly is as stale as it gets. Move on.

 

[mydnyte]

Yes, Reaves, Jarnkrok, Kampf, Robertson... all likely moved... or in Robertson's case, just not offered a contract... though that would be stupid asset management... at least sign him and move him somewhere for anything.

I just think we can find a better deal for Rielly, if they wanted to move him, than being stuck with Holl. I also don't think they want to move Rielly... Personally, I would, but that doesn't matter too much.

I may be the only one still high on Robertson ...he gives good effort, strips pucks, and has the 3rd best shot on the team.
if he was flanking McDavid, he'd be an elite 40+ goal guy.
its all a matter of chances and circumstances, but Berube, likes his 'BIG' guys even when they dont produce, like McMann vs Robertson in the playoffs. Robby produced, McMann didnt, but, still got the nod.

 

[Duffman955]

Just two of the things that stood out among several was he talked about how Florida was built and broke down the players and how it started.

Talked about how they plucked these guys for very little or nothing (Forsling, Bennett, Reinhart, Verhegue etc) and how the leafs need to go through every contract in the league and find those players that have contracts that may not fit with the team they’re on.

Talked about how the tax advantages is a big non issue and again how Florida didn’t attract all these guys in free agency but traded for them. Also how many other Florida teams in their leagues like MLB/NFL are not really standouts for success.

With our resources, we should be the ones unearthing these diamonds in the rough.

Definitely need a better professional scouting staff.

 

[seanlinden]

Trading Rielly for nothing to sign an $8 million defenseman would essentially be trading Rielly for a D of your own choosing, so that’s not a problem whatsoever. Rielly doesn’t represent $7.5 million in value, represents job security and culture. There’s lots of baggage there that comes with mediocre on ice play.

TML are an entertainment product. And Year 14 or whatever of Morgan Rielly is as stale as it gets. Move on.

Which $8m defenceman would you rather have? To be honest I'm not seeing a whole bunch of attractive options in UFA.

 

[The Shadow]

With our resources, we should be the ones unearthing these diamonds in the rough.

Definitely need a better professional scouting staff.

I can’t remember who said it but I think Rick Dudley is part of that Pro Scouting. I’ve always thought that guy was a genius for finding gems

 

[mydnyte]

Highlighted how Toronto has mismanaged their cap by overpaying players too early in their careers. Mentioned Jim Nill and Bill Zito as top GMs but said he likes the direction Treliving has taken. Thinks outside of being able to sign Sam Bennett (not likely to happen) that the Leafs will have to use trades to improve the team. Said that Florida and Edmonton are head and shoulders above the rest of the league and amongst the also rans some are as good as Toronto but no one is better.

Without McDavid, Oilers are a lottery team, with below average goaltending and half decent D
Drais has been pretty good in short times without McD, but, long term, his stats would drop huge, and he is poor defensively

if McD signs with Buffalo next season for example, they instantly go to Cup favorite as they have a better team than the Oilers outside of McDavid.

 

[Gallagbi]

Which $8m defenceman would you rather have? To be honest I'm not seeing a whole bunch of attractive options in UFA.

Couple Russians and a rapidly aging Brent Burns

 

[Fogelhund]

Read again.

This has to be record time for someone to use the phrase “you’re embarrassing yourself” and then turn around and embarass themselves.

Someone confused Taylor and Darren...


.

I may be the only one still high on Robertson ...he gives good effort, strips pucks, and has the 3rd best shot on the team.
if he was flanking McDavid, he'd be an elite 40+ goal guy.
its all a matter of chances and circumstances, but Berube, likes his 'BIG' guys even when they dont produce, like McMann vs Robertson in the playoffs. Robby produced, McMann didnt, but, still got the nod.

I've been a fan of Robertson's, but he's going to want to move on, and we should accommodate him. He's got a great shot, but struggles to find the space to get it off on a consistent basis.

 

[Americanadian]

Which $8m defenceman would you rather have? To be honest I'm not seeing a whole bunch of attractive options in UFA.

Why are we looking for 8M defenseman? Rielly is playing at a 5M level (per the Atheltic). If you can replace him with a 5-5.5M defenseman you save 2-2.5M for the same product. If you get out of his contract you save yourself from having to pay him 7.5M as he morphs from a 5M defenseman into a 4M defenseman or a 3M defenseman.

 

[Americanadian]

Someone confused Taylor and Darren...

It reads like someone doesn't know Darren exists.

 

[namttebih]

I'd be looking to get rid of Robertson, Kampf, Jarnkrok and Reaves. Laughton isn't a 3C option to me either

I'd keep Domi because we need a pass first playmaker for Matthew's and Knies

I'd keep JT to, I don't think we can get a better 2C for the money he's going to cost, I'm looking for a big bodied LW for that line though (trade for Marchment or Kreider preferably)

McMann 3rd line LW then I'm looking for a 3C I can build the bottom 6 around and play with Cowan if he shows well in camp

4th line Lorentz, Laughton whoever

I keep seeing Domi on everyone's mock ups at 1RW. I think that Berube wants top line matchups for Matthews though. This pretty much rules that out. They looked good offensively at times, but does anyone have defensive numbers for when they played together? Honest question, not making a statement on the latter.

 

[mydnyte]

Trading Rielly for nothing to sign an $8 million defenseman would essentially be trading Rielly for a D of your own choosing, so that’s not a problem whatsoever. Rielly doesn’t represent $7.5 million in value, represents job security and culture. There’s lots of baggage there that comes with mediocre on ice play.

TML are an entertainment product. And Year 14 or whatever of Morgan Rielly is as stale as it gets. Move on.

Rielly is a decent human being, and if the Leafs approached him and asked him to waive, I'm pretty sure he'd consider it, unless it was to go someplace undesirable.

i.e. if he would be wiling to go to Columbus, a sign and trade for Fabbro/Proverov would replace him well, and change the makeup.

Personally, I think Fabbro should be one of our top 2 targets as a UFA, after #2/3C is resolved

 

[mydnyte]

With our resources, we should be the ones unearthing these diamonds in the rough.

Definitely need a better professional scouting staff.

we stole a good one from Dallas
his highlight reel, with only 1 being a high pick. we havent hit like that in a really long time.

[th]Player[/th][th]Draft position[/th][th]Year[/th] [td]D Thomas Harley[/td][td]18th[/td][td]2019[/td] [td]D Miro Heiskanen[/td][td]3rd[/td][td]2017[/td] [td]G Jake Oettinger[/td][td]26th[/td][td]2017[/td] [td]F Jason Robertson[/td][td]39th[/td][td]2017[/td] [td]F Roope Hintz[/td][td]49th[/td][td]2015[/td]

 

[TMLAM34]

What do people think Fabbro will cost in free agency?

 

[Fogelhund]

What do people think Fabbro will cost in free agency?

Projections are saying $4.6 mil.

 

[Americanadian]

What do people think Fabbro will cost in free agency?

Kovacevic contract is probably the floor. He could push up as high as the Pesce contract.

 

[seanlinden]

Couple Russians and a rapidly aging Brent Burns

I guess I look at it with a little bit of a different lens... in that the Leafs had the Leafs were one of the lowest producing bluelines this season, from an offensive standpoint.... and that replacing the far and away best puckmover on the team; with somebody with a career high of ~40 points, isn't going to be the way to fix that.

As for Burns, that's honestly an interesting idea; and perhaps even a good one considering the loss of Marner on the PP.

I don't think you can realistically go into the season with a top 6 D of McCabe, Tanev, OEL, Carlo, Benoit and Burns; but going in with Rielly, Carlo, McCabe, Tanev, Benoit and Burns could certainly be interesting.

Toronto has had a decent ability to attract guys at the end of their career for cheap...especially local guys. Perhaps this is one of those opportunities, to get a guy to come home for a year, play infront of family, live a bit of a lifelong dream, and get a shot at a cup that kind of has a perfect spot open for him.

I'm honeslty not sure how things are going to shake out money-wise for these "tier 3" UFAs with the new cap realities, but if you can sell him on the idea of Toronto, and get him at $2.5m or less on a 1-year deal, then trade OEL, that could be a really tidy piece of business.

Obviously there's a ton more money out there for him, but he's made his $100m... and this point you'd have to think the chance to win a cup comes first.