Roster Building/Team Building/Future Trade/Drafting thread.

[Fogelhund]

If that’s all you have to take back to get rid of 7.5M for 5 years then yes. You’re trading bad contract for bad contract.

I’m not suggesting the Leafs trade a positive value asset for Noel Acciari in 2025.

Let's start with reality. He isn't getting traded. At this point, it's fan delusion.


Having said that, the Leafs rightly value him too much. Fans just get fixated on our D too much through history, and make them scapegoats. This idea he has negative value, when he had the most even strength minutes in the playoffs is just weird. Is the thought process somehow that other GM's seeing a guy with third pairing minutes.. and a cap too high... or do you think they might see a D man, who is a top D man in scoring, with the most even strength minutes, on a team that took Florida further than any other team so far... and that is attractive? He's typically a top pairing, puck moving, offensive D... bit of a down year, but still top 25 in the league in scoring, and stepped up offensively and overall in the playoffs... that has value.

He's still 6th in scoring in the playoffs, and 25th in the regular season. If you don't think that has value across the league...

Meanwhile, Florida trades Spencer Knight, and a first round pick, for a guy who has been worse than Rielly defensively over his career, and doesn't put up near the number of points.

Then we are going to turn around, and sign a guy like Provorov, a guy who has never scored more than Rielly for essentially the same role..... at a 5-6 year deal, for more money.

This forum group think of... Rielly has no value, we must get rid of him at all costs... just has zero grounding in reality. In a fantasy world, ya... I'd move him... not because he isn't good, but to change out some of the losing bodies. Change more of the culture. I think he's got value, because he's been a top scorer in the league for years. That's just the reality... but if enough people post how terrible he is... that's going to be their reality at some point, if they don't look at it objectively.

 

[WTFMAN99]

8 years 2.5M per?

 

[Tony Romo]

8 years 2.5M per?

probably 6x3.5m if i had to guess

 

[Americanadian]

Let's start with reality. He isn't getting traded. At this point, it's fan delusion.


Having said that, the Leafs rightly value him too much. Fans just get fixated on our D too much through history, and make them scapegoats. This idea he has negative value, when he had the most even strength minutes in the playoffs is just weird. Is the thought process somehow that other GM's seeing a guy with third pairing minutes.. and a cap too high... or do you think they might see a D man, who is a top D man in scoring, with the most even strength minutes, on a team that took Florida further than any other team so far... and that is attractive? He's typically a top pairing, puck moving, offensive D... bit of a down year, but still top 25 in the league in scoring, and stepped up offensively and overall in the playoffs... that has value.

He's still 6th in scoring in the playoffs, and 25th in the regular season. If you don't think that has value across the league...

Meanwhile, Florida trades Spencer Knight, and a first round pick, for a guy who has been worse than Rielly defensively over his career, and doesn't put up near the number of points.

Then we are going to turn around, and sign a guy like Provorov, a guy who has never scored more than Rielly for essentially the same role..... at a 5-6 year deal, for more money.

This forum group think of... Rielly has no value, we must get rid of him at all costs... just has zero grounding in reality. In a fantasy world, ya... I'd move him... not because he isn't good, but to change out some of the losing bodies. Change more of the culture. I think he's got value, because he's been a top scorer in the league for years. That's just the reality... but if enough people post how terrible he is... that's going to be their reality at some point, if they don't look at it objectively.

I fully acknowledge that Rielly likely isn’t moving but isn’t this board for discussing all possible trades? Since when can we not discuss trades involving Toronto Maple Leafs in a Toronto Maple Leafs trade forum?

Rielly very clearly took a step back this season and it’s very reasonable to expect that to continue. He is currently the 29th highest paid defenseman. Is he the 29th best defenseman in the league? Not even close. At his age, he will continue to decline, as we’ve already seen.

His offense hardly outweighs his poor defense. The Leafs would benefit from getting out of his contract with as little long-term financial commitments coming back as possible.

Seth Jones is not worse than Rielly - as we just saw over 7 games. He got a good return in trade because 1) he shoots right, which is infinitely more valuable than a LHD 2) he’s 6’4 and + skater. At the end of the day physical traits still matter in this league.

 

[ToneDog]

Let's start with reality. He isn't getting traded. At this point, it's fan delusion.


Having said that, the Leafs rightly value him too much. Fans just get fixated on our D too much through history, and make them scapegoats. This idea he has negative value, when he had the most even strength minutes in the playoffs is just weird. Is the thought process somehow that other GM's seeing a guy with third pairing minutes.. and a cap too high... or do you think they might see a D man, who is a top D man in scoring, with the most even strength minutes, on a team that took Florida further than any other team so far... and that is attractive? He's typically a top pairing, puck moving, offensive D... bit of a down year, but still top 25 in the league in scoring, and stepped up offensively and overall in the playoffs... that has value.

He's still 6th in scoring in the playoffs, and 25th in the regular season. If you don't think that has value across the league...

Meanwhile, Florida trades Spencer Knight, and a first round pick, for a guy who has been worse than Rielly defensively over his career, and doesn't put up near the number of points.

Then we are going to turn around, and sign a guy like Provorov, a guy who has never scored more than Rielly for essentially the same role..... at a 5-6 year deal, for more money.

This forum group think of... Rielly has no value, we must get rid of him at all costs... just has zero grounding in reality. In a fantasy world, ya... I'd move him... not because he isn't good, but to change out some of the losing bodies. Change more of the culture. I think he's got value, because he's been a top scorer in the league for years. That's just the reality... but if enough people post how terrible he is... that's going to be their reality at some point, if they don't look at it objectively.

Maybe it is clickbait but fans are not the only ones that think 44 could be traded.

Rielly is not on this list because anything is imminent or guaranteed to happen, but he is the logical first place the Leafs could look if they want to make deeper changes to the roster. The Leafs want to add another puck-moving, skating defenceman regardless of whether Rielly stays or goes. How high level of a defenceman they will add may depend on their ability to move Reilly’s contract.
I believe the team will, at some point, begin exploring their options on what to do with Rielly. His contract — five more years, $7.5 million AAV — is not as onerous as Matthews’ or William Nylander’s, which would be extremely complicated trades to pull off. Rielly, 31, does have a full no-movement clause and hasn't made an indication he's willing to waive, so there would need to be a mutual understanding that a change of scenery is in everybody’s best interests. I’d start with a team near his hometown like the Canucks.

 

[TMLAM34]

My off-season game plan today… Changes by the hour lol…

TRADES -
To Toronto: Marco Rossi
To Minnesota: Max Domi + Easton Cowan + 2025 FLA 2nd Round Draft Pick

Out (whatever draft pick you can get) - Calle Jarnkrok + David Kampf


UFA SIGNINGS -
Brock Boeser - 7 years, 8 million per
Luke Kunin - 2 years, 2.25 million per
Nathan Bastian - 1 year, 1.35 million per
Curtis Lazar - 1 year, 1 million per


Knies(7.5) - Matthews(13.25) - Boeser(8)
Laughton(1.5) - Rossi(6.5) - Nylander(11.5)
McMann(1.35) - Tavares(5.5) - Kunin(2.25)
Holmberg(1.25) - Lazar(1) - Bastian(1.35)
Quillan(0.88)

Rielly(7.5) - Carlo(3.49)
McCabe(4.51) - Tanev(4.5)
Benoit(1.35) - Ekman Larsson(3.5)
Myers(0.85)

Stolarz(2.5) - Woll(3.67)

Cap penalties from Pacioretty, Reaves and Benning, the Leafs would have around 1 million in cap space.

 

[WTFMAN99]

probably 6x3.5m if i had to guess

Might be a better guess but I think if you're gonna go anything beyond 1-2 years, lean into the term and just go 8 years to get AAV down.

Tampa tried to do similar with Killorn.

 

[Stephen]

Just part and parcel of Kyle blabbering all over the place without having his boss involved in the process. If that deal had gone through we probably don’t have Matthew Knies.

 

[Americanadian]

I wonder what Minnesota does now. They don’t want to pay Rossi and they were probably looking at Nelson to replace him. All of a sudden they could be desperate for C’s.

Similarly I wonder if Colton shakes free from Colorado now.

 

[Fogelhund]

I fully acknowledge that Rielly likely isn’t moving but isn’t this board for discussing all possible trades? Since when can we not discuss trades involving Toronto Maple Leafs in a Toronto Maple Leafs trade forum?

Rielly very clearly took a step back this season and it’s very reasonable to expect that to continue. He is currently the 29th highest paid defenseman. Is he the 29th best defenseman in the league? Not even close. At his age, he will continue to decline, as we’ve already seen.

His offense hardly outweighs his poor defense. The Leafs would benefit from getting out of his contract with as little long-term financial commitments coming back as possible.

Seth Jones is not worse than Rielly - as we just saw over 7 games. He got a good return in trade because 1) he shoots right, which is infinitely more valuable than a LHD 2) he’s 6’4 and + skater. At the end of the day physical traits still matter in this league.

Tavares had an off year the year before... everyone jumped on the Tavares is a third liner... how did that work out?

Playoff realities

#1 in Even strength Ice time
#1 in Leaf D in On Ice goals
#1 in Leaf D in points
#1 in Leaf D in Corsi
#1 Leaf D in Fenwick
#2 Leaf D in Goals %
#1 Leaf D in Expected Goals %
# 1 Leaf D in Relative Expected Goals %
#2 Leaf D in on Ice Shot attempts against.
#3 in on ice expected goals against
#2 in On Ice goal differential

 

[Fogelhund]

Maybe it is clickbait but fans are not the only ones that think 44 could be traded.

View attachment 1045630


Rielly is not on this list because anything is imminent or guaranteed to happen, but he is the logical first place the Leafs could look if they want to make deeper changes to the roster. The Leafs want to add another puck-moving, skating defenceman regardless of whether Rielly stays or goes. How high level of a defenceman they will add may depend on their ability to move Reilly’s contract.
I believe the team will, at some point, begin exploring their options on what to do with Rielly. His contract — five more years, $7.5 million AAV — is not as onerous as Matthews’ or William Nylander’s, which would be extremely complicated trades to pull off. Rielly, 31, does have a full no-movement clause and hasn't made an indication he's willing to waive, so there would need to be a mutual understanding that a change of scenery is in everybody’s best interests. I’d start with a team near his hometown like the Canucks.

Kyper right? LOL

 

[Duffman955]

Tavares had an off year the year before... everyone jumped on the Tavares is a third liner... how did that work out?

Playoff realities

#1 in Even strength Ice time
#1 in Leaf D in On Ice goals
#1 in Leaf D in points
#1 in Leaf D in Corsi
#1 Leaf D in Fenwick
#2 Leaf D in Goals %
#1 Leaf D in Expected Goals %
# 1 Leaf D in Relative Expected Goals %
#2 Leaf D in on Ice Shot attempts against.
#3 in on ice expected goals against
#2 in On Ice goal differential

Basically this.

All the people clamoring for Rielly trade, I have to imagine they missed the playoffs or didn't understand what was happening

 

[Americanadian]

Tavares had an off year the year before... everyone jumped on the Tavares is a third liner... how did that work out?

Playoff realities

#1 in Even strength Ice time
#1 in Leaf D in On Ice goals
#1 in Leaf D in points
#1 in Leaf D in Corsi
#1 Leaf D in Fenwick
#2 Leaf D in Goals %
#1 Leaf D in Expected Goals %
# 1 Leaf D in Relative Expected Goals %
#2 Leaf D in on Ice Shot attempts against.
#3 in on ice expected goals against
#2 in On Ice goal differential

Best offensive defenseman on this Leafs team isn’t exactly a feat.

If he doesn’t do that in the playoffs I doubt the Leafs could trade him at all.

If you want to believe he carries positive value that’s your prerogative but no one’s asking your opinion.

 

[Fogelhund]

Best offensive defenseman on this Leafs team isn’t exactly a feat.

If he doesn’t do that in the playoffs I doubt the Leafs could trade him at all.

If you want to believe he carries positive value that’s your prerogative but no one’s asking your opinion.

Nobody asked for anyone's opinion on here... but here we all are.

 

[seanlinden]

Best offensive defenseman on this Leafs team isn’t exactly a feat.

If he doesn’t do that in the playoffs I doubt the Leafs could trade him at all.

If you want to believe he carries positive value that’s your prerogative but no one’s asking your opinion.

With the cap going up like it is... there are very, very few players in the league who do not hold at least some positive value.

Now, whether the Leafs can actually unlock that value in Rielly given his NMC, certainly a different question.

But I think you also have to realistically ask yourself... what's the point?

If you have to trade Rielly for nothing, and then have to go out and spend $8m or more on a similar defenceman, have you really pushed any further ahead?

Furthermore, you look at the Leafs overall defensive group; which at this point has kind of been built around Rielly; having Carlo & Tanev on the right side; and how they were quite happy with the group overall... and have to wonder if there is an actual point in making changes there.

 

[The Shadow]

Many people hate Simmons but he makes some very good points here.

 

[Americanadian]

With the cap going up like it is... there are very, very few players in the league who do not hold at least some positive value.

Now, whether the Leafs can actually unlock that value in Rielly given his NMC, certainly a different question.

But I think you also have to realistically ask yourself... what's the point?

If you have to trade Rielly for nothing, and then have to go out and spend $8m or more on a similar defenceman, have you really pushed any further ahead?

Furthermore, you look at the Leafs overall defensive group; which at this point has kind of been built around Rielly; having Carlo & Tanev on the right side; and how they were quite happy with the group overall... and have to wonder if there is an actual point in making changes there.

Are you replacing Rielly or replacing the player that Rielly is supposed to represent?

Carolina was able to get Rielly’s production out of UFA Gostisbehere at 3.2M.

 

[Duffman955]

Are you replacing Rielly or replacing the player that Rielly is supposed to represent?

Carolina was able to get Rielly’s production out of UFA Gostisbehere at 3.2M.

I didn't know Gost was leading Carolina in minutes played and most advanced stats

Dude your embarrassing yourself

 

[LeafSteel]

Many people hate Simmons but he makes some very good points here.

TLDW

Any Coles Notes?

 

[hamzarocks]

I

You’d rather retain for 4+ years than take on a 2M pending UFA? If you can get out of the contract basically for free I don’t see why you wouldn’t do that.

I would see if he can bounce back and get to 55-60 pt offense again.

He wasn't in the best of shape. Is it possible with a better off-season we could see him return to form?

At 4 years if we retain 3M he goes down to 4.5M and he can bring back a decent value asset if he's not worse than this year.

If we are clearing 5.5M this year via rielly trade, I'm not sure we spend that wisely on a D-man who would bring more offense and puck moving.

Ekblad, Provorov, I would like both but I dont think either comes to TOR and not at less than 8M.

I think with Rielly it would be smarter to see if he can rebuild his value over this year to the point he's either a guy you keep due to him being a good top pairing D again, or he's valuable enough that you can bring a a 1st rounder back with a bit of retention and use his space to target Mcdavid next summer if he is actually walking.

I'm not a fan of selling a guy at his lowest value before giving him a chance to rebound.

 

[Americanadian]

I didn't know Gost was leading Carolina in minutes played and most advanced stats

Dude your embarrassing yourself

That’s true - Ghost was much more efficient with his production.

 

[Americanadian]

I

I would see if he can bounce back and get to 55-60 pt offense again.

He wasn't in the best of shape. Is it possible with a better off-season we could see him return to form?

At 4 years if we retain 3M he goes down to 4.5M and he can bring back a decent value asset if he's not worse than this year.

If we are clearing 5.5M this year via rielly trade, I'm not sure we spend that wisely on a D-man who would bring more offense and puck moving.

Ekblad, Provorov, I would like both but I dont think either comes to TOR and not at less than 8M.

I think with Rielly it would be smarter to see if he can rebuild his value over this year to the point he's either a guy you keep due to him being a good top pairing D again, or he's valuable enough that you can bring a a 1st rounder back with a bit of retention and use his space to target Mcdavid next summer if he is actually walking.

I'm not a fan of selling a guy at his lowest value before giving him a chance to rebound.

The issue is if he doesn’t rebound then he’s immovable.

Retaining 2-3M for 4 years is worst case scenario. Especially if the opportunity was there to be completely free beyond 2026.

 

[hamzarocks]

The issue is if he doesn’t rebound then he’s immovable.

Yes, but we will then be 2 years away from a big time rebuild, so you can eat that contract and let it suck for 2 more years before a potential 50% retained deal, if he gets worse.

Id rather keep the player you know if you arent getting anything good in return.

I'm not expecting much next few years so anything that comes our way playoffs time will be great. If rielly can bounce back it gives more chance of the team being a contender.

If not, hopefully we make the playoffs next year and then can start a tank in 2027-2028.

I see the only way for us to become a good contender and avoid the pending rebuild is for Rielly bouncing back to a top pairing D and then moving 1 of Benoit/OEL/Carlo for a more offensive PMD who can carry the puck/join the rush and has good offensive instincts (a legit #3D).

Our current D-core is built poorly for a ling llayoffs run and you need better puck carriers/offensive D-man to win 4 rounds

 

[Americanadian]

Yes, but we will then be 2 years away from a big time rebuild, so you can eat that contract and let it suck for 2 more years before a potential 50% retained deal, if he gets worse.

Id rather keep the player you know if you arent getting anything good in return.

I'm not expecting much next few years so anything that comes our way playoffs time will be great. If rielly can bounce back it gives more chance of the team being a contender.

If not, hopefully we make the playoffs next year and then can start a tank in 2027-2028

Hasn’t the last 5 years been about “keeping the player you know”. I thought the future is about changing the DNA (per Brad Treliving).

 

[hamzarocks]

Hasn’t the last 5 years been about “keeping the player you know”. I thought the future is about changing the DNA (per Brad Treliving).

If we are changing the DNA to improve the team then go for it.

If we are dumping a core asset for a AHL quality player just to create cap space for next 5 years then I dont see the point.

I'm more pessimistic on this team, so I would avoid any more LT commitments to new players if possible so we can really burn this to the ground in 2028 if everything continues to suck.

Trading Rielly and then targeting 1-2 UFA D-man this year at 7M+ is not what I'd like to see.

We are running the team back despite the sayings from MLSE/Treliving with marner being only core piece likely gone.

Hope for 2 more playoff appearances and then start a big time rebuild is my strategy for now