Roster Building/Team Building/Future Trade/Drafting thread. | Page 116 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Roster Building/Team Building/Future Trade/Drafting thread.

If this team once again fails to proceed very far in the playoffs, what would you want them to do?

  • Do nothing, run it back

    Votes: 17 9.2%
  • Make changes to the offense, top 6 forward, better bottom six, but keep the core

    Votes: 11 6.0%
  • Make changes to the offense, including moving core players

    Votes: 73 39.7%
  • Make changes to the defense

    Votes: 11 6.0%
  • Do a retool, including moving core players

    Votes: 88 47.8%
  • Ban the guy who keeps making jinx prediction posts.

    Votes: 22 12.0%

  • Total voters
    184
be nice if you acquired players who want to play here no?

He didn't leave under bad circumstances... he's from Uxbridge, you think he wouldn't want to play near home and family? Is there anything, anywhere suggesting he doesn't ever want to play for Toronto? He was undrafted, and the org gave him his professional opportunity... that should be a positive no?

His biggest issue to make it to the pros, was poor skating... He worked with Barbara Underhill, and improved his skating enough to make it... if it wasn't for that, he'd never be a NHL player. If the Marlies hadn't take a chance on him, and spent the money on Underhill, he never would have made it.
 
He didn't leave under bad circumstances... he's from Uxbridge, you think he wouldn't want to play near home and family? Is there anything, anywhere suggesting he doesn't ever want to play for Toronto? He was undrafted, and the org gave him his professional opportunity... that should be a positive no?

His biggest issue to make it to the pros, was poor skating... He worked with Barbara Underhill, and improved his skating enough to make it... if it wasn't for that, he'd never be a NHL player. If the Marlies hadn't take a chance on him, and spent the money on Underhill, he never would have made it.
poster I was responding to stated "who cares if he want to be here or not," that's what I was commenting on, but thanks for your input............
 
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You're operating under the assumption that Marchment doesn't want to be here. Why trade for any player at that point if you're worried they don't want to be here?
i don't know how he'd feel, but I think acquiring players who don't want to be here is not a recipe for success.........
 
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With it seeming unlikely that Marner will accept a sign and trade, I've pivoted how my "mock" roster looks like.... it's not going to be easy to build a team.

Knies Matthews P. Kane
E. Kane/Marchment Bennett/Granlund Nylander
McMann Tavares Domi
Laughton Krebs Cowan/Sherwood/Jeannot/Anderson (post buyout)


Options
Middle six wingers... Steeves, Cowan, Reichel, Marchment, Crouse, Domi, Robertson, Patches, Bjugstand, Saad, McMann, Mantha, Connor Brown, Mangiapane. E. Kane
Wingers line 4 +13th forward Lorentz, Jeannot, Comtois, Tanev, Bastian, Koepke, Eyssimont, Anderson, Sherwood, Holmberg, Steeves, Connor Brown
4th line C options - Toews, Quillan, Holmberg, Krebs, Laughton, Haymes, Kampf

I really like the idea of bringing in Kane for Matthews if Marner is gone. I'd love to add Ehlers and pair him with Nylander. They'd need a defensive-minded playmaker between them, ideally with an edge, I think Gourde can be that guy at a cheap hit.

Knies-AM-Kane
Ehlers-Gourde-Nylander
McMann-JT-Domi
Laughton-?-Lorenz

Trouble with that 3rd line is that if it's got both JT+Max, it'll be a bit of a defensive diseaster. I'd move Laughton up there but then I'm not sure what to do with Domi. If you can't get Kane, you move Domi up there, but otherwise he's not a great fit anywhere else.
 
I really like the idea of bringing in Kane for Matthews if Marner is gone. I'd love to add Ehlers and pair him with Nylander. They'd need a defensive-minded playmaker between them, ideally with an edge, I think Gourde can be that guy at a cheap hit.

Knies-AM-Kane
Ehlers-Gourde-Nylander
McMann-JT-Domi
Laughton-?-Lorenz

Trouble with that 3rd line is that if it's got both JT+Max, it'll be a bit of a defensive diseaster. I'd move Laughton up but then I'm not sure what to do with Domi. If you can't get Kane, you move Domi up there, but otherwise he's not a great fit anywhere else.

The challenge with this lineup, is it isn't "tougher" to play against, and a changed DNA in that way... I think we'll try and bring in some more "playoff" style guys. I like Ehlers too, and originally had him when I had Karlsson in the lineup as the 2C.... But, if it's Bennett or Granlund, then we don't have the $ for an Ehlers. I suppose we would with Gourde, but that's not exactly where I'd like to go.

Now.. the projection on Granlund's salary is $5 mil... and I just don't believe he's going to be available for that low, given the environment, and demand for C's.... but that's the projection...

Modifying your lineup, and mine... adding in for speed, and toughness.

Knies AM E. Kane
Ehlers Granlund Nylander
McMann JT Sherwood
Laughton Krebs Jeannott/Anderson (after buy out)

If Granlund costs more, we could switch Kane, for Kane... E for P.

First lines, third and fourth line can beat you up, forecheck like crazy... second line has a ton of speed.
 
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The challenge with this lineup, is it isn't "tougher" to play against, and a changed DNA in that way... I think we'll try and bring in some more "playoff" style guys. I like Ehlers too, and originally had him when I had Karlsson in the lineup as the 2C.... But, if it's Bennett or Granlund, then we don't have the $ for an Ehlers. I suppose we would with Gourde, but that's not exactly where I'd like to go.

Now.. the projection on Granlund's salary is $5 mil... and I just don't believe he's going to be available for that low, given the environment, and demand for C's.... but that's the projection...

Modifying your lineup, and mine... adding in for speed, and toughness.

Knies AM E. Kane
Ehlers Granlund Nylander
McMann JT Sherwood
Laughton Krebs Jeannott/Anderson (after buy out)

If Granlund costs more, we could switch Kane, for Kane... E for P.

First lines, third and fourth line can beat you up, forecheck like crazy... second line has a ton of speed.

100% agreed. I had to look up Sherwood numbers, and holy mother of christ, the guy registered 462 hits last year. I've never seen anything like it.

I wasn't considering Granlund because due to the dearth of C's I think he'll get $7+ on a short term deal. But if we're able to dump Domi+Jarn+Kampf we'll have the cap space to make it happen.
 
The challenge with this lineup, is it isn't "tougher" to play against, and a changed DNA in that way... I think we'll try and bring in some more "playoff" style guys. I like Ehlers too, and originally had him when I had Karlsson in the lineup as the 2C.... But, if it's Bennett or Granlund, then we don't have the $ for an Ehlers. I suppose we would with Gourde, but that's not exactly where I'd like to go.

Now.. the projection on Granlund's salary is $5 mil... and I just don't believe he's going to be available for that low, given the environment, and demand for C's.... but that's the projection...

Modifying your lineup, and mine... adding in for speed, and toughness.

Knies AM E. Kane
Ehlers Granlund Nylander
McMann JT Sherwood
Laughton Krebs Jeannott/Anderson (after buy out)

If Granlund costs more, we could switch Kane, for Kane... E for P.

First lines, third and fourth line can beat you up, forecheck like crazy... second line has a ton of speed.
Curious what assets are out the door for Sherwood and Krebs here. I would imagine the cost for Krebs is like a 3rd. Sherwood is likely a 1st. Every single team in the league is going to make an offer if he's available.
 
Curious what assets are out the door for Sherwood and Krebs here. I would imagine the cost for Krebs is like a 3rd. Sherwood is likely a 1st. Every single team in the league is going to make an offer if he's available.

I didn't really specify who went where... I mean you've got Robertson, Kampf, Jarnkrok, Domi out the door in this, plus whatever Marlies... I wasn't working on value, as much as a lineup I'd like to see... maybe it doesn't work... who knows.
 
The 3rd round pick offer sheet range (1.54M-2.34M) is interesting this summer. This is the same offer sheet that the Blues used to get Holloway. I don't believe any of these players will have a season like Holloway but can they outperform 2.34M?

Goncalves - TBL
Lapierre - WSH
Malinski - COL
Bourque - DAL (maybe they match)
J. Thompson - SJS (maybe they match)
Dobes - MTL (they probably match)
 
The 3rd round pick offer sheet range (1.54M-2.34M) is interesting this summer. This is the same offer sheet that the Blues used to get Holloway. I don't believe any of these players will have a season like Holloway but can they outperform 2.34M?

Goncalves - TBL
Lapierre - WSH
Malinski - COL
Bourque - DAL (maybe they match)
J. Thompson - SJS (maybe they match)
Dobes - MTL (they probably match)
The offer sheet threat is less real because of the giant jump the cap has taken, the last 2-3 years has been so tight.
 
There's no question. You keep looking at that free agent list. You start adding Marner's points, Tavares' points, and you keep saying: "We cannot replace 176 points with the free agents that are available! We have to sign Tavares and Marner! It's the only way!"

I'm going to argue that the free agent list is good. There are players that can score, can elevate in the playoffs, and want to win in TOR.

It doesn't have to come down to whether we choose Marner or Bennett either.

Treliving has his work cut out for him, but it's not impossible. He doesn't have hit homeruns on July 1st. He can use his available cap to trade for players at the deadline. He won't have to overspend either to get a team to retain 50%.

Toronto will be ok next season. Their defense and goaltending will get them to the playoffs alone.

Be cool and don't lose your cool.

We don't have to run it back like you're suggesting.
 
The Oilers could have easily matched Holloway last year but didn’t. Just because a team has the money to match an offer doesn’t mean they will.

I think they would have been able to easily match up until they signed Arvidsson and Skinner then they were pretty screwed unless they attached a sweetener to E.Kane I believe.
 
I said this yeeeears ago:

In order to contend, we would likely have to learn to win by losing incrementally. 1st round, 2nd, CF, SCF Loss, SCF win?

If we can buy the right long term pieces this off-season. Repeat the mindful build next season with a piece or two, maybe in the last season of Matthews' contract, we will be "there".

But I don't think a year sooner.

"Pain is coming."

I mean...What else did we think would happen?

Problem is, no one thought that the first and second increments would take a decade to navigate.

Here's hoping the next steps are all sequential.
 
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This thread seems like imagining scenarios that people didn't actually come up with it. Majority of the people want to change it up, so not sure where OP is seeing run it back.
 
This thread seems like imagining scenarios that people didn't actually come up with it. Majority of the people want to change it up, so not sure where OP is seeing run it back.
Agreed.

Should capitalize "Some" in the title or address the minority and emphasize the how of the situation. Likely for another thread already in play, at any rate.
 
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It always goes like this:
1. We get our shit pushed in in the playoffs in embarrassing fashion
2. Everyone gets mad and agrees we need change. Specific players (core) are called out
3. Summer happens. Anger wanes
4. We are running it back (running it back means keeping the core pieces)
5. I get a threadban for being too based and chadpilled on the main forum
 
This thread seems like imagining scenarios that people didn't actually come up with it. Majority of the people want to change it up, so not sure where OP is seeing run it back.

I'm the OP of this thread... I'm not sure what you are referring to exactly.
 
bourne

And so now the off-season questions are two-fold: can you change the Leafs' “DNA” and find those type of playoff performers who can help you get through the post-season? And, can you make sure you replace enough of what Marner brought in the regular season to ensure you’re still one of the Eastern Conference's eight best regular season teams?
I’ve heard people say “How can you replace the 175 points Marner and Tavares brought,” which is a question I don’t particularly care for, because it gets a few things wrong. For one, you’re not replacing their past points, you’re replacing what they’ll get next year, and I’d bet a good sum against Tavares scoring 38 goals and getting 74 points again, and Marner had an “everything goes perfect” type season. So you’re probably looking at them being, say, 160 points at best. And you’ve got their $22 million to find it with.
That also assumes you need the same offensive output to have success. In goals for, the Oilers finished 11th (eight goals fewer than the Leafs) and the Florida Panthers finished 15th (21 fewer than Toronto). You don’t necessarily need to get back to the exact offensive output to be a better playoff-ready team.
As the Leafs consider all options, which includes figuring out how to use that $22 million in cap space to replace two important pieces, it’s pretty clear that Treliving is right: there aren’t readily available UFA options who'll ensure they get back to that previous save point. For all the Sam Bennett talk, it sounds like his price tag won’t be cheap, and he just had a career high 51 points, plus he turns 29 in a few weeks. Players don’t tend to get more physical as they age, it's usually the opposite.
So if he becomes a mid-40-point guy (and maybe a slightly less physical version of himself as the years go on), $8 or $9 million a season isn’t going to feel great. That shouldn’t read as disrespect about what Bennett is today, which is one of his generation's most important playoff performers and a guy who the Leafs would love to have right now. Rather, it should read as a projection and a word of caution about solving the removal of true stars. It should read as a word of caution about going the Nashville route.
What concerns me more than anything is that Bennett had his second-highest average time on ice season of his career this year, and it was…17:27 (almost four fewer nightly minutes per game than Marner). Bennett gets a lot of press for a guy who isn’t used like a top-line player.

Toronto Maple Leafs GM Brad Treliving discusses his thoughts on potential upcoming roster changes and altering the team's DNA to have more success in the playoffs.

Play Video
This is where signing Bennett can work though: if it’s not a super punishing contract, and they don’t simultaneously swing at other more desired UFA players, but instead get creative a la Washington and St. Louis.
Now, you can’t write this article without acknowledging one challenge here: the Leafs are hardly rich in assets. They’re light on draft picks (they have no firsts the next three years, but they do have 16 picks among a possible 18 after that) which can make the idea of an offer sheet hard. And, they’re light on prospects, so you’re mostly looking at “Can you trade some imperfect fit players who Craig Berube doesn’t love for guys who suit the team better?”
Thanks to bonus payments coming next month, deals to Max Domi, Calle Jarnkrok, and David Kampf are close to plus-asset contracts (or at least neutral) that could be moved. And while we said Toronto has few picks and prospects, that doesn't mean they don't have any at all. It’s not impossible that they could justify moving what they do have left (a couple well-regarded goalie prospects at a time their net is pretty solidified, for example).
What might be the most important point from the “Leafs need to get creative” message here: this is not an exercise an analyst or fan can take with any accuracy or authority, because we simply don’t know who’s available or why. It’s a fool’s errand. We can’t know the wants and desires of every team or the 700-plus players around the league because we’re not privy to that information. Until you place those phone calls to 31 other GMs and see where they’re at on their respective guys, we’re just throwing darts. Behind the scenes, teams and players might be trying to get fresh starts elsewhere.
I do like some of the UFAs out there. I like Nikolaj Ehlers. I like Trent Frederic as a depth guy (age, aggression, and output are promising in a bottom-six when he’s healthy). Aaron Ekblad would be a great add, and Brad Marchand at a reasonable deal would, of course, appeal. But bring in more than one of these guys and you risk doing what Nashville did last season, making the big splash but just ending up all wet.
The Leafs have to get creative.
It just won’t be “lose Marner and/or Tavares, sign UFAs, get better.” It almost can’t be that. But there are solutions out there, and the pressure on the front office now is to find ways to solve what looks like sizeable challenges.
Their playoff checkpoint is very likely gone. And the goal isn’t to just to get back there, it’s to push beyond.
 

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