Rookie Ovechkin or Prime Matthews

[Regal]

Yet Ovechkin has a career high of 112, and some of those Caps teams during his peak were absolute wagons.

So you would expect him to eclipse his peak totals in his rookie year because why exactly?

Scoring went down from 05-06 to 07-08 and he was on pace for 124 points in 09-10 when his team was a wagon.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Scoring went down from 05-06 to 07-08 and he was on pace for 124 points in 09-10 when his team was a wagon.

And Matthews was on pace for 120 in 21/22 which I assume was probably close to 05/06 levels of scoring (no idea), minus the insane amount of PP opportunities/time.

I just don't see any argument for rookie Ovechkin over Prime Matthews, especially when you consider the all around game. You have a Hart/Lindsay/Rocket award type player while being Top 3 in Selke voting.

 

[sr edler]

I don't even know what prime Matthews is supposed to mean, he always seems the same to me, no matter age or other circumstances. Rookie Ovechkin was a rare type of player with way more edge and upside to his game.

 

[Foppberg]

lol is this a joke? Ovi.

 

[mackinnon29]

Ovie for sure, both guys can score goals but the early years of Ovechkin also included a physical play that hasn’t been seen from a goal scorer since. First all time in goals shots and is fourth all time in hits. They don’t call the guy the Russian machine for nothing. And I’m top of that never gets hurt. This year is the longest I believe he’s been hurt, broke his leg and came back ahead of schedule. Very good chance he’d be up there with Draisaitl this year for the rocket if he never got hurt.

​

 

[ExtraLoveSauce]

Rookie ovi one of the best players of all time but prime Matthews is much better on the cycle and far more sound defensively than rookie ovi even though rookie ovi takes the cake as probably the #1 most exciting player to watch of all time.

 

[Albatros]

both guys can score goals but the early years of Ovechkin also included a physical play that hasn’t been seen from a goal scorer since.

Well, what's a goal scorer? Even in Washington Tom Wilson had 33 just this year. Also a Brady Tkachuk has been more physical than Ovechkin ever was.

 

[Plural]

Rookie Ovechkin was not worlds better than peak Ovechkin. Better? Sure. But not by the amount players usually progress when entering their peak.

You could make a case for both. Matthews at his peal is more cerebreal and defensive sound center. Ovechkin was offensive dynamo who carried the puck and tilted the ice more.

As a player, I think Ovechkin was better than any season from Matthews. It's close, but I pick #8 mainly due to his ability to dominate anyone with anyone. His team-mates were nonames and he more than doubled everyone on his team in points.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

I think people are forgetting what an absolute beast young Ovechkin was.

 

[Sens9292]

ummm Ovi, this isn’t close

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I think people are forgetting what an absolute beast young Ovechkin was.

Well he's winning the poll so the majority of fans didn't forget. Guy was a freak and a force of nature no doubt

 

[Captain97]

I think people forget how much of a monster 19 year old Ovi was.

Dude had 50+ goals and 100+ points in a low scoring era and was a physical monster.

Matthews is better defensively but Ovi was and still is a train.

Watching the Habs Caps seriess at least once a game my GF would ask isn't he middle aged and would joke about him being made in a Russian lab or being part Bear.

 

[Captain97]

Well he's winning the poll so the majority of fans didn't forget. Guy was a freak and a force of nature no doubt

He doesn't have all the votes so some people forgot

 

[wetcoast]

I wanna say I'm surprised by the results, but the Leafs are such a meme that I'm really not.

Rookie Ovechkin scored 52 goals and 106 points. That was also during the cartoon 2005-06 season where they actually enforced interference. Teams averaged 5.85 powerplays per game. He had 52 points on the powerplay.

Auston Matthews' best season was 69 goals (f***in nice) and 107 points, with only 29 points coming on the powerplay.

I value even strength scoring more, especially in a league with 12 minors per game versus a league with 6 minors per game. Anything that happened in 2005-06 has to be taken with a brick of salt. It had twice as many powerplays as a normal NHL.

And even putting that aside, Matthews still literally had more points and 17 more goals.

It's Ovechkin for prime, peak, and career, but the answer to this poll is Matthews.

Some people can't actually read what the thread title is it seems.

HF Boards 101

 

[kerrabria]

Not voting bc I don't love the question.
Maybe I'm being obtuse, but I don't think it's fair to compare just 2005-06 Ovechkin to "prime Matthews" (i.e., his best couple seasons).

But I would take early/prime Ovechkin over prime Matthews without hesitation. 2005-10 Ovechkin was just as good of a goal scorer as Matthews, but a much better playmaker and just generally more dynamic offensively. Sure Matthews is good defensively and plays center, but Ovechkin overall game impact was greater.

And if you really want to get down to it--if you placed prime, power forward Ovechkin in the modern NHL, he'd annihilate modern blue lines in a way that would force rosterbuildling and coaching strategies to change. Meanwhile, Matthews' durability and intensity issues would really struggle in the post-lockout seasons.

 

[Sky04]

Matthews is such a passenger, Ovechkin would will his team.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Matthews is such a passenger, Ovechkin would will his team.

Lying is bad. Don't do it.

Teammate quality matters, Ovi with Marner, Knies, Nylander and Tavares puts up much better stats instead of being a one man army on those Caps. Matthews was getting fed shots left and right(deservingly considering his shot) while Ovi often had to carry the puck off the rush to make things happen. Ovi’s quality of chances was just lower.

It's a double edged sword. Better linemates certainly can make it easier to score but having good team mates also means you get less time with the puck, generally less minutes overall and on the powerplay, etc. Prime Matthews beat out a prime McDavid for the Hart/Lindsey, scored 60+ goals twice lapping the field for the Rocket Race both times, put up 100+ points while being top 3-4 in PPG as a center getting Selke votes. Rookie Ovechkin is just not quite at that level. What makes Ovechkin so special was how dominant he was across many of the seasons early in his career and how well his goal scoring aged.

 

[Sky04]

Lying is bad. Don't do it.

It's a double edged sword. Better linemates certainly can make it easier to score but having good team mates also means you get less time with the puck, generally less minutes overall and on the powerplay, etc. Prime Matthews beat out a prime McDavid for the Hart/Lindsey, scored 60+ goals twice lapping the field for the Rocket Race both times, put up 100+ points while being top 3-4 in PPG as a center getting Selke votes. Rookie Ovechkin is just not quite at that level. What makes Ovechkin so special was how dominant he was across many of the seasons early in his career and how well his goal scoring aged.

Passenger like he is again these playoffs

 

[Midnight Judges]

Yet Ovechkin has a career high of 112, and some of those Caps teams during his peak were absolute wagons.

Were they?

How many of those blue liners were still in the nhl within 3 years?

 

[Maplebeasts]

Passenger like he is again these playoffs

He's been fine these playoffs. I'll take ppg and handily winning the matchup from my #1 C any day.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Not a surprising result on HF to be honest, but Matthews at his peak matched/slightly exceeded McDavid in points per game excluding empty net points, while being far and away the best goal scorer and amazing defensively. I mean rookie Ovechkin was still a beast for real, but even considering offense only this is clearly Matthews and overall there’s truly no case for Ovechkin other than recency bias and popularity contests.

Nothing like using PPG as a crutch when every one knows McDavids best seasons blow Matthews best seasons out of the water.

They were drafted one year a part and only 83 GP of a difference between the two yet McDavid is already near 1,100 pts while Matthews just hit 700 this year lol

Anyway availability matters give me Ovi every day of the week.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Matthews brought a lot more than just offense


And Matthews brings a lot more than just offence, even if you don't think he is close to being Selke material. Ovechkin was more of an offensive weapon than a solid 2-way player.

Matthews defense is so good he shuts down his own offense every postseason

 

[Mrb1p]

Ovechkin was better at every single point in his career than Matthews at every single point in his own career. They are not comparable players.

 

[Mrb1p]

He's been fine these playoffs. I'll take ppg and handily winning the matchup from my #1 C any day.

Hes been fine, Ovechkin was a wagon in the playoffs. Not on the same level. Stop that.

 

[Crow]

The C thing is also massively overrated. The only reason most of the best players are Cs is because kids who are really good young get shuffled into playing C. The best wingers have just as much of an impact on their teams.

Couldn’t agree more. If you look at the top players all time, centers are prominently featured despite being outnumbered on the ice due to what you said. However you also have Hull, Jagr, Ovi, Howe(!) there so there is no reason a winger can’t be as impactful as any player in the game.