Rookie Ovechkin or Prime Matthews

[Sky04]

So did Matthews and he didn't play with Marner in his rookie season.

Yeah 69 points is carrying a team that also had 4 other 60+ point scorers LOL

 

[authentic]

Fun fact, rookie Matthews finished higher in the goal scoring race than rookie Ovi

While hitting 15-20 posts and getting 2nd line ice time with defensive responsibilities. He’ll never get the respect he deserves until he takes Toronto deep in the playoffs with a dominant performance.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Not a surprising result on HF to be honest, but Matthews at his peak matched/slightly exceeded McDavid in points per game excluding empty net points, while being far and away the best goal scorer and amazing defensively. I mean rookie Ovechkin was still a beast for real, but even considering offense only this is clearly Matthews and overall there’s truly no case for Ovechkin other than recency bias and popularity contests.

it’s OV imo

 

[authentic]

Matthews 3rd
OV tied for third, and 52 goals as rookie (12 more), and was a wrecking ball, just ran through players.

Matthews was tied for 2nd. I think the point is that if rookie Matthews was already this good it’s obvious peak Matthews was better than rookie Ovechkin. Atleast it is to me.

 

[authentic]

It’s not about careers , it’s about rookie season, it’s OV.

It’s prime Matthews vs. rookie Ovechkin

 

[eojsmada]

Ovechkin AINEC. The supporting cast around Matthews was much higher quality than anything resembling that Caps team.

 

[Golden_Jet]

It’s prime Matthews vs. rookie Ovechkin

I’ll take the wrecking ball

 

[authentic]

Ovechkin AINEC. The supporting cast around Matthews was much higher quality than anything resembling that Caps team.

Rookie Ovechkin, AINEC, over the 69 goal scoring two-way center. Sounds legit

 

[authentic]

It's definitely not that clear cut. The supporting casts factor in here.

Matthews out-pointed his nearest teammate by 9%.

Ovie out-pointed his nearest teammate by 86%.

Matthews out-goaled his nearest teammate by 71%.

Ovechkin out-goaled his nearest teammate by 126%.

Out of all the players in NHL history, how many payers have stood out from their teammates to this extent? It really is a rare thing. It's hard to do. We've seen other future star players going to lottery teams and having not nearly the kind of success Ovie did.

So is Florida Panthers Pavel Bure a better player than peak Matthews also? I don’t know, the margins aren’t big either way but I truly don’t see how a rookie Ovechkin is better than peak Matthews.

Let’s put it this way, Matthews at his peak already scored goals just as well as Ovechkin at his peak when factoring in their offensive usage and scoring levels, and also did so with more defensive responsibility. The wow factor can go to rookie Ovechkin but he’s not the better player by any objective measure.

 

[authentic]

Matthews at his peak was scoring 51 goals in a 50 game stretch and limiting a modern day dynasty like Tampa Bay to zero shots on goal when we was on the ice in a playoff game that went to OT. Imagine a rookie doing this

 

[ViD]

I actually voted Matthews

While Ovechkin had a one of a kind rookie year, he was 20 already, and prime Matthews scored 69.

 

[Dingo]

Ovechkin carried his piss-poor team so hard it's not even funny. Give him Marner etc. and he probably gets like 150 points.

good point. probably not 150, but likely 120 in that high scoring year, and 60 goals. Give him a good overall team and he is on the powerplay a lot that year, too, as those first two years were powerplay heavy.

I think rookie Ovechkin is probably very equal to Matthews' best.

 

[Dingo]

Fun fact, rookie Matthews finished higher in the goal scoring race than rookie Ovi

thats actually shocking.

Another good example of raw numbers not telling the story - usually its the new generation that looks shinier, in this case Ovechkin (and Crosby's) first two years were easier to score than anyone who started just before 2017.

3rd in points as a rookie vs 20th, however, in Ovechkin's favor.

 

[eojsmada]

Rookie Ovechkin, AINEC, over the 69 goal scoring two-way center. Sounds legit

You clearly didn't read the qualifying statement. Extremely doubtful Matthews would accomplish the same feat with the teammates that Ovechkin had.

Hence why qualifying context is important.

 

[authentic]

thats actually shocking.

Another good example of raw numbers not telling the story - usually its the new generation that looks shinier, in this case Ovechkin (and Crosby's) first two years were easier to score than anyone who started just before 2017.

3rd in points as a rookie vs 20th, however, in Ovechkin's favor.

Give Matthews 5 more minutes and 3 more minutes on the powerplay per game and he finishes 1st in goals and easy top 10 in points likely.

Matthews did this while playing just over 17 minutes and 2:28 per game on the powerplay (wingers were rookie Hyman, rookie Brown, rookie Nylander). He wasn’t playing with Marner at all ES or PP either.

 

[authentic]

You clearly didn't read the qualifying statement. Extremely doubtful Matthews would accomplish the same feat with the teammates that Ovechkin had.

Hence why qualifying context is important.

The context of Matthews finishing higher in goals with 2nd line minutes as a rookie with rookies as linemates? None of which included Marner.

I feel like most people here are simply not aware of how those Babcock teams were run and how well Matthews still scored. Babcock wouldn’t even play his best goal scorer with his best playmaker.

 

[SkinsFan09]

It's hard to go against a guy who won MVP in Matthews with 69 goals ...

Only thing I'll say is Ovechkin had 106 points and the closest teammate had 57. One man show in 2005-06.

 

[cupface52]

The context of Matthews finishing higher in goals with 2nd line minutes as a rookie with rookies as linemates? None of which included Marner.

I feel like most people here are simply not aware of how those Babcock teams were run and how well Matthews still scored. Babcock wouldn’t even play his best goal scorer with his best playmaker.

The Leafs entire top 6 was better than the caps second best player. Leafs top 4 was better than any caps dman. That caps team was no better than last years Blackhawks.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Alexander Mikhailovich Ovechkin AINEC

The distance between Proxima Centauri and the Sun is closer.

 

[authentic]

It's hard to go against a guy who won MVP in Matthews with 69 goals ...

Only thing I'll say is Ovechkin had 106 points and the closest teammate had 57. One man show in 2005-06.

That wasn’t even the season he won MVP. That was his 60 goal in 73 games season where he scored 51 goals in 50 games in the middle of the season. No doubt rookie Ovechkin was still amazing though, and for pure entertainment value couldn’t be beat.

 

[authentic]

The Leafs entire top 6 was better than the caps second best player. Leafs top 4 was better than any caps dman. That caps team was no better than last years Blackhawks.

The season he had was like all-time great for a rookie no doubt, but I feel people are seriously underrating Matthews to claim rookie Ovechkin was better AINEC. He was essentially scoring a goal per game for the better part of a few seasons when healthy and playing a two-way game with not a lot of powerplay time compared to other elite scorers.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Yeah 69 points is carrying a team that also had 4 other 60+ point scorers LOL

Tied for 2nd in goal scoring, on a team that finished last place the season prior, he took them to the playoffs.

 

[cupface52]

Tied for 2nd in goal scoring, on a team that finished last place the season prior, he took them to the playoffs.

Matthews didn't take them anywhere, their entire top 6 did, along with their special teams. They had 5 players in the top 40 scoring that year and 6 in the top 60. They also scored 5th most goals in the league.

 

[mphmiles]

Prime Matthews led the league by 12 goals and finished 3rd in Selke voting.

Not even a leafs fan, but the poll results are ridiculous. Prime Matthews vs. Prime Ovi would be one thing, but that's not what this is.