Rookie Ovechkin or Prime Matthews

[toothlessgoon]

Who's better?

 

[Coffee]

the Great Eight

 

[Regal]

I think Matthews has arguably had better seasons, but I’d take Ovi if I had to win a game

 

[bobholly39]

Matthews. He's had better seasons in his prime than Ovechkin's rookie season, which I think is the question.

 

[Fatass]

OV and it ain’t close.

 

[Gerulaitis]

Rookie Ovechkin, of course.

 

[ijuka]

Ovechkin carried his piss-poor team so hard it's not even funny. Give him Marner etc. and he probably gets like 150 points.

 

[centipede2233]

Just wanted to mention, and has nothing to do with the poll, but ovie is on pace to have his best plus minus season since 2009/2010…

Wow I also noticed I lost like 1000 likes….

Can this post get 1000 likes, thanks

 

[895]

39 year old Ovechkin is better than 27 year old Matthews

 

[filinski77]

39 year old Ovechkin is better than 27 year old Matthews

While I agree Ovi is having a better singular season this year (although by only a hair) - you have to realize that this is irrelevant to the actual OP right?

Ovechkin's rookie year he was 3rd in points and 3rd in goals.

Matthews at his best was 3rd in points/gp and easily the best goal scorer in the world. Matthews is the answer here.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Ovechkin carried his piss-poor team so hard it's not even funny. Give him Marner etc. and he probably gets like 150 points.

So did Matthews and he didn't play with Marner in his rookie season.

 

[authentic]

Ovechkin carried his piss-poor team so hard it's not even funny. Give him Marner etc. and he probably gets like 150 points.

Right, considering he had prime Backstrom, Semin, and Mike Green on defense and never scored more than 112… At his absolute peak

Fun fact: Rookie Matthews finished higher in goals than rookie Ovechkin, playing 17 minutes a game and 2:28 on the powerplay, with exclusively rookie wingers.

The only season of Ovechkin’s career where he played less than 20 minutes (but still around 19 and 4 minutes on the powerplay instead of 5 or 6) he scored 33 goals.

Peak Matthews is a clearly, clearly better player than rookie Ovechkin. Come on guys

 

[authentic]

39 year old Ovechkin is better than 27 year old Matthews

The funniest part about this is no he’s not

 

[Zine]

Ovechkin.
Finishing 3rd in league points and a 1st team selection with this support is insane.

 

[authentic]

Not a surprising result on HF to be honest, but Matthews at his peak matched/slightly exceeded McDavid in points per game excluding empty net points, while being far and away the best goal scorer and amazing defensively. I mean rookie Ovechkin was still a beast for real, but even considering offense only this is clearly Matthews and overall there’s truly no case for Ovechkin other than recency bias and popularity contests.

 

[895]

The funniest part about this is no he’s not

Yeah he's not really but like in 100 years in the future when people just look at the stat lines for this season, it will be true.

 

[daver]

Matthews brought a lot more than just offense

While I agree Ovi is having a better singular season this year (although by only a hair) - you have to realize that this is irrelevant to the actual OP right?

Ovechkin's rookie year he was 3rd in points and 3rd in goals.

Matthews at his best was 3rd in points/gp and easily the best goal scorer in the world. Matthews is the answer here.

And Matthews brings a lot more than just offence, even if you don't think he is close to being Selke material. Ovechkin was more of an offensive weapon than a solid 2-way player.

 

[authentic]

Yeah he's not really but like in 100 years in the future when people just look at the stat lines for this season, it will be true.

You’re not wrong there

 

[Midnight Judges]

Not a surprising result on HF to be honest, but Matthews at his peak matched/slightly exceeded McDavid in points per game excluding empty net points, while being far and away the best goal scorer and amazing defensively. I mean rookie Ovechkin was still a beast for real, but even considering offense only this is clearly Matthews and overall there’s truly no case for Ovechkin other than recency bias and popularity contests.

It's definitely not that clear cut. The supporting casts factor in here.

Matthews out-pointed his nearest teammate by 9%.

Ovie out-pointed his nearest teammate by 86%.

Matthews out-goaled his nearest teammate by 71%.

Ovechkin out-goaled his nearest teammate by 126%.

Out of all the players in NHL history, how many payers have stood out from their teammates to this extent? It really is a rare thing. It's hard to do. We've seen other future star players going to lottery teams and having not nearly the kind of success Ovie did.

 

[Acallabeth]

Rookie Ovechkin basically matched Matthews' peak production in a slightly lower scoring league, while outscoring next two runner-ups combined (in both his 100+ points seasons, Matthews led the Leafs in scoring by 9 points).

And while Matthews is of course better defensively, it's not a given at all that Matthews would score more if he was a lesser defensive player. In fact, better defensive skill leads to more puck possession and an increase in scoring opportunities, so holding a player's poor defensive skill against his scoring just doesn't seem logical

And even we have the desire to assess Ovechkin's overall impact, GF/GA stats are not available for 2005-2006, but he was +2 on a -69 team, which is pretty respectable, averaged the same PK time Matthews did and scored 3 SHG. Considering that Hanlon was a much more defensive coach than Boudreau (for seasons under whom people mostly make their opinion on Ovechkin), I don't see some canyon of a difference here, so claiming that Matthews was 'clearly' better doesn't seem well thought-through.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Matthews brought a lot more than just offense


And Matthews brings a lot more than just offence, even if you don't think he is close to being Selke material. Ovechkin was more of an offensive weapon than a solid 2-way player.

Matthews, in his best season, was on the ice for 81 non PP goals against.

Ovechkin, in his rookie season, was on the ice for 70 non PP goals against.

Matthews had an NHL caliber blue line behind him. Ovechkin had a bunch of no-name scrubs (Mike Green played 22 games. Otherwise it was Jamie Heward, Bryan Muir, Steve Eminger, Shane Morrison, etc.).

So where is the evidence for this significant defensive distinction you speak of?

 

[The Podium]

Fun fact, rookie Matthews finished higher in the goal scoring race than rookie Ovi

 

[Hippasus]

It's definitely not that clear cut. The supporting casts factor in here.

Matthews out-pointed his nearest teammate by 9%.

Ovie out-pointed his nearest teammate by 86%.

Matthews out-goaled his nearest teammate by 71%.

Ovechkin out-goaled his nearest teammate by 126%.

Out of all the players in NHL history, how many payers have stood out from their teammates to this extent? It really is a rare thing. It's hard to do. We've seen other future star players going to lottery teams and having not nearly the kind of success Ovie did.

There was a thread about this on the history board recently and 95-96 Kariya and 00-01 Bure were two prominent answers.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Fun fact, rookie Matthews finished higher in the goal scoring race than rookie Ovi

Matthews 3rd
OV tied for third, and 52 goals as rookie (12 more), and was a wrecking ball, just ran through players.

 

[Sky04]

While I agree Ovi is having a better singular season this year (although by only a hair) - you have to realize that this is irrelevant to the actual OP right?

Ovechkin's rookie year he was 3rd in points and 3rd in goals.

Matthews at his best was 3rd in points/gp and easily the best goal scorer in the world. Matthews is the answer here.

Doesn't matter, I'd take the rookie crushing ball Ovechkin who played at full intensity all the time vs soft ass Matthews who hides from contact.