Ron Francis

[Fuhrious]

…Francis
…Hakstol
…Bylsma
…now Botterill

All of them justifiably prompting fans around the league to rush in here and screech “I can’t believe you hired THAT guy”

What is this team’s ownership doing?

 

[The Marquis]

…Francis
…Hakstol
…Bylsma
…now Botterill

All of them justifiably prompting fans around the league to rush in here and screech “I can’t believe you hired THAT guy”

What is this team’s ownership doing?

Wait, so Botterill is official? You’re all collectively f***ing with me, right? There’s nobody who is like “there’s a guy who will be great at GM based on his track record”

I thought that shit was just speculation. For f***s f***ing sake.

 

[Fuhrious]

Wait, so Botterill is official? You’re all collectively f***ing with me, right? There’s nobody who is like “there’s a guy who will be great at GM based on his track record”

I thought that shit was just speculation. For f***s f***ing sake.

It’s official. Promoted from Assistant GM to GM.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

…Francis
…Hakstol
…Bylsma
…now Botterill

All of them justifiably prompting fans around the league to rush in here and screech “I can’t believe you hired THAT guy”

What is this team’s ownership doing?

I defended the first 3 hires because I really do think, sometimes a 2nd chance after going through growth and development can be a big difference.

And I really do think Hakstol and Francis may have worked IF we had not made the playoffs in our 2nd season and had gone down the "slow" building with the draft route. But it just seems like management and ownership were not in sync with the direction of the team after the playoff run. However, at the end of the day neither of them showed the steady improvement a team needs to show.

As far as Botterill goes, I am willing to see how he does. His stint at Buffalo was not great but we need to take the fact that they have not made the playoffs since 2012.

 

[Fuhrious]

I defended the first 3 hires because I really do think, sometimes a 2nd chance after going through growth and development can be a big difference.

And I really do think Hakstol and Francis may have worked IF we had not made the playoffs in our 2nd season and had gone down the "slow" building with the draft route. But it just seems like management and ownership were not in sync with the direction of the team after the playoff run. However, at the end of the day neither of them showed the steady improvement a team needs to show.

As far as Botterill goes, I am willing to see how he does. His stint at Buffalo was not great but we need to take the fact that they have not made the playoffs since 2012.

I don’t disagree with your argument but I think the key word is “sometimes”

So far every hire this team has made has been a “2nd chance” gamble. That’s not a good's look.

 

[majormajor]

I know Botterill's record in Buffalo, and it wasn't good. He's still a smart guy and I imagine he has learned a lot from that.

What I'm more concerned about is whether ownership/FO made this decision because they didn't trust Francis to be super active this summer, and are going to hold that over Botterill? That sounds like setting him up to fail.

 

[CLW]

I have zero confidence in this Botterill dude. As people already said something seriously stinks with the way the Kraken hire people. How the hell was this guy hired in the first place? I'll give Botterill the benefit of the doubt to surprise me, but I seriously doubt that will happen. Seen this exact bad management scenario over and over again through the decades in hockey and other sports.

But it's still funny as hell that we here nailed the fact that Francis will be promoted out of the way after this flop of a season.

 

[CLW]

It's also weird that Leiweke basically gave Francis his vote of confidence just the other day and Bylsma was rumoured to be safe... and now this. But it is hardly surprising heads are rolling.

 

[kihei]

Why the rush to name a new GM? Whatever happened to due diligence? Also I might have waited until after the draft, RF's strong suit, to kick him upstairs.

 

[The Marquis]

The thing that we need to remember about Botterill. He was in Buffalo. Has anybody had an easy time attracting players to Buffalo? No, not really. Perhaps he’ll have an easier time convincing the sensible wives and girlfriends to move to Seattle.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Why the rush to name a new GM? Whatever happened to due diligence? Also I might have waited until after the draft, RF's strong suit, to kick him upstairs.

Agree on

The thing that we need to remember about Botterill. He was in Buffalo. Has anybody had an easy time attracting players to Buffalo? No, not really. Perhaps he’ll have an easier time convincing the sensible wives and girlfriends to move to Seattle.

I am not giving Botterill a pass nor do I want to pick on Buffalo but Botterill was there for 2017-2020. The had not make the playoffs since 5 years before he joined (2012) and have not made it 5 years since he left. That tells us a lot.

 

[Fuhrious]

Agree on

I am not giving Botterill a pass nor do I want to pick on Buffalo but Botterill was there for 2017-2020. The had not make the playoffs since 5 years before he joined (2012) and have not made it 5 years since he left. That tells us a lot.

That's true but there are a lot of head scratchers in the 3 years he was there. Arguably poisoned the well on Eichel during his tenure being one of the bigger ones.

 

[GrungeHockey]

Agree on

I am not giving Botterill a pass nor do I want to pick on Buffalo but Botterill was there for 2017-2020. The had not make the playoffs since 5 years before he joined (2012) and have not made it 5 years since he left. That tells us a lot.

You can definitely pick on Buffalo. He was dreadful there. His drafting was weak, his trades were bad and most of all his coaching hires were the worst. I mean Kreuger ? Buffalo fans are still haunted by that debacle.

I have zero faith in JBott as Buffalo fans call him. You can learn from your mistakes so maybe he can be better but I have zero reason to believe he will be.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Why the rush to name a new GM? Whatever happened to due diligence? Also I might have waited until after the draft, RF's strong suit, to kick him upstairs.

Because they felt the need to show "changes".

It's also not much changing as the same folks are still in charge just with different titles.
Francis is still part of the decision making, Botterrill was part of that group as well and the scouting department is also still the same.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

You can definitely pick on Buffalo. He was dreadful there. His drafting was weak, his trades were bad and most of all his coaching hires were the worst. I mean Kreuger ? Buffalo fans are still haunted by that debacle.

I have zero faith in JBott as Buffalo fans call him. You can learn from your mistakes so maybe he can be better but I have zero reason to believe he will be.

Maybe so. But again, going to give him the benefit of doubt. Atleast till I see what he does this off-season including the coaching hire.

The team made a change realizing they are not where they want to be. Not that it was hard to realize that but the change still needed to be made and its not always easy. I won't say I am positive but I am hopeful that good decisions are made to put us back on track. I don't want to give up on Botterill before he even starts working.

 

[kihei]

Looks like Campbell will be retained for the year remaining on her contract. (KJR950AM)

 

[Fuhrious]

Maybe so. But again, going to give him the benefit of doubt. Atleast till I see what he does this off-season including the coaching hire.

The team made a change realizing they are not where they want to be. Not that it was hard to realize that but the change still needed to be made and its not always easy. I won't say I am positive but I am hopeful that good decisions are made to put us back on track. I don't want to give up on Botterill before he even starts working.

Obviously you're an adult and are entitled to your opinion, but this team is 0 for 3 with the "give staff who bombed out of their last job a second chance" schtick. How many bites of the apple do they get before we stop giving them the benefit of the doubt?

 

[The Marquis]

Obviously you're an adult and are entitled to your opinion, but this team is 0 for 3 with the "give staff who bombed out of their last job a second chance" schtick. How many bites of the apple do they get before we stop giving them the benefit of the doubt?

I don’t think anybody is happy with the Botterill change, I started the more positive (read: neutral) look at him just by acknowledging he was the GM at probably the toughest team to be a GM at, so perhaps the barriers they have in Buffalo won’t be as big as in Seattle, giving him freedom… still, that doesn’t exactly give me confidence whatsoever.

It doesn’t help that he’s been the AGM at this wildly mediocre club for the last 4 years. I would be more apt to be happy about a first timer than this.

 

[CLW]

I don’t think anybody is happy with the Botterill change, I started the more positive (read: neutral) look at him just by acknowledging he was the GM at probably the toughest team to be a GM at, so perhaps the barriers they have in Buffalo won’t be as big as in Seattle, giving him freedom… still, that doesn’t exactly give me confidence whatsoever.

It doesn’t help that he’s been the AGM at this wildly mediocre club for the last 4 years. I would be more apt to be happy about a first timer than this.

The one potential positive I can think of is *if* Botterill was on the opposite side of the Bylsma hire. If he was completely aligned with Francis every step of the way, on top of his past spotty at best record, the thinking behind promoting him is... peculiar.

 

[kihei]

I keep thinking about Leiweke in all this. The manner in which this purge has been carried out suggests an owner feeling a lot of frustration and impatience. I mean, wouldn't the by-the-book thing to do be at least to wait until the completion of the Stanley Cup to make these announcements. Which would have given the team more time to vet GM candidates, too. I'd bet the league would have preferred he not take any attention away from the sports shiniest object. It's hard not to think that if Leiweke is this impulsive about showing who is boss, he probably is no longer going to be very patient about building through the draft.

 

[Scomerica]

Not gonna lie seeing the response from Sabres fans to Botterils hiring is scaring the crap out of me, especially the drafting part.

I'm worried none of these retreads are working bar Hakstol for one season and it does feel a little dysfunctional like a Dallas Cowboys, Cleveland Browns type situation.

 

[Scomerica]

I keep thinking about Leiweke in all this. The manner in which this purge has been carried out suggests an owner feeling a lot of frustration and impatience. I mean, wouldn't the by-the-book thing to do be at least to wait until the completion of the Stanley Cup to make these announcements. Which would have given the team more time to vet GM candidates, too. I'd bet the league would have preferred he not take any attention away from the sports shiniest object. It's hard not to think that if Leiweke is this impulsive about showing who is boss, he probably is no longer going to be very patient about building through the draft.

I get being frustrated but the team isn't there talent wise yet. Even going crazy in free agency we are probably still a bubble team without true first line talent.

Leiweke always talks a good game and he wasn't afraid to change it at the seahawks when it wasn't working with Jim Mora after a season (but it is also way quicker to rebuild in football) but I don't get the Francis stuff. Why not just fire him?

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I keep thinking about Leiweke in all this. The manner in which this purge has been carried out suggests an owner feeling a lot of frustration and impatience. I mean, wouldn't the by-the-book thing to do be at least to wait until the completion of the Stanley Cup to make these announcements. Which would have given the team more time to vet GM candidates, too. I'd bet the league would have preferred he not take any attention away from the sports shiniest object. It's hard not to think that if Leiweke is this impulsive about showing who is boss, he probably is no longer going to be very patient about building through the draft.

I get being frustrated but the team isn't there talent wise yet. Even going crazy in free agency we are probably still a bubble team without true first line talent.

Leiweke always talks a good game and he wasn't afraid to change it at the seahawks when it wasn't working with Jim Mora after a season (but it is also way quicker to rebuild in football) but I don't get the Francis stuff. Why not just fire him?

As far as firing Francis goes, I think part of the issue is that they don't want to show that hire as a complete failure and give the impression that this was always planned and maybe the timeline got accelerated. At least that would be my guess. But they obviously realized Francis is not the right GM for the job. So that was the way to go without looking too bad.

Same with Jessica Campbell being kept. It wouldn't have been surprising if they had fired her. But I think they like her, don't want to put her in a bad spot and look bad as a result of that by firing her too.

I also do agree that Leiweke is being a little bit impatient, but we all saw that change come in after they started pushing for playoffs after our second season. To me, moving out Francis is hardly surprising since he failed to move that needle and season 4 (from a standing perspective) was worse than season 3.

I would have much preferred staying the course and building via the draft and only using FA for short term deals to fill up the roster. But at this point in time, the decision has been made. So the need to hire people who can help us get there rather than somebody like Francis, for example, who has never really been put in that position or has been has shown that he can be successful there.

Unfortunately, the same is true with Botterill who is not as experienced as a GM and may not be the best choice. The concerns for the Botterill promotion are very fair. I do think we need to give him some time to see what he does this offseason before we get a real idea on how things go. Buffalo cannot be ignored but it was his first go at it in an organization that has struggled both before and after him.

 

[Scomerica]

As far as firing Francis goes, I think part of the issue is that they don't want to show that hire as a complete failure and give the impression that this was always planned and maybe the timeline got accelerated. At least that would be my guess. But they obviously realized Francis is not the right GM for the job. So that was the way to go without looking too bad.

Same with Jessica Campbell being kept. It wouldn't have been surprising if they had fired her. But I think they like her, don't want to put her in a bad spot and look bad as a result of that by firing her too.

I also do agree that Leiweke is being a little bit impatient, but we all saw that change come in after they started pushing for playoffs after our second season. To me, moving out Francis is hardly surprising since he failed to move that needle and season 4 (from a standing perspective) was worse than season 3.

I would have much preferred staying the course and building via the draft and only using FA for short term deals to fill up the roster. But at this point in time, the decision has been made. So the need to hire people who can help us get there rather than somebody like Francis, for example, who has never really been put in that position or has been has shown that he can be successful there.

Unfortunately, the same is true with Botterill who is not as experienced as a GM and may not be the best choice. The concerns for the Botterill promotion are very fair. I do think we need to give him some time to see what he does this offseason before we get a real idea on how things go. Buffalo cannot be ignored but it was his first go at it in an organization that has struggled both before and after him.

Do you think they move Campbell elsewhere in the org where she can succeed or try again with the power play? I don't think they would fire her due to optics but I could see a mutual partings of ways next year or where she takes a role in another org/league that is deemed a promotion.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Do you think they move Campbell elsewhere in the org where she can succeed or try again with the power play? I don't think they would fire her due to optics but I could see a mutual partings of ways next year or where she takes a role in another org/league that is deemed a promotion.

If Bylsma gets a job elsewhere, I would not be shocked if she moves there with him. I think the organization will try to give Campbell a few options and see what she thinks. A lot of it is also predicated on what the new HC wants. If they feel Campbell is too green for a role like the PP coach, then things could get "challenging". Maybe offer her a job as a strength and conditioning coach at the NHL level or even a management position.