Ron Francis’ future.

[Fistfullofbeer]

problem is its not going to make things better very very quickly, it has better odds that things get worse. Like getting rid of our top prospects to the point we have nothing great in the prospect pool, to having a lot of dead weigh to make it even more difficult to even improve the team...

I agree with you about things not getting better quickly. But what I was trying to say is that Francis has put us in the position we are in. For a team playing the way we are, you would think we are a borderline tanking team. But we are a team spending to the cap with lots of long-term contracts for players in their late 20s or early 30s.

I also don't think its "fair" for Francis in the sense "IF" his timeline was accelerated by management. But at the end of the day, that's his job. The direction of the team right now is not that of an expansion team or that of a competitive team.

 

[The Marquis]

I agree with you about things not getting better quickly. But what I was trying to say is that Francis has put us in the position we are in. For a team playing the way we are, you would think we are a borderline tanking team. But we are a team spending to the cap with lots of long-term contracts for players in their late 20s or early 30s.

I also don't think its "fair" for Francis in the sense "IF" his timeline was accelerated by management. But at the end of the day, that's his job. The direction of the team right now is not that of an expansion team or that of a competitive team.

Feels like the Sabres to me.

 

[Kevinsane]

Surprised y’all even still try to talk to that guy. Argues with literally everything everyone says and never ever admits he’s wrong. Saw him get absolutely clowned on the main board over something incorrect he said about Kovalchuks contract, and kept right on talking like it didn’t even happen. Blocked him not long thereafter.

I assume he’s irrationally arguing that we should somehow just keep Francis even though he’s doing an objectively lousy job because firing him would somehow make things even worse? As if that makes any sense?

He completely missed the point of my original post, too. I was in no way arguing FOR trading away youth or prospects, just pointing out that GMs who start to think they may be in danger of losing their jobs often mortgage the future to try and stay employed, something absolutely nobody wants to see happen to the Kraken. So, if it might, Francis needs to go. If it might not, great, but where’s the improvement and what’s the articulated plan for growth and success?

 

[Fuhrious]

He completely missed the point of my original post, too. I was in no way arguing FOR trading away youth or prospects, just pointing out that GMs who start to think they may be in danger of losing their jobs often mortgage the future to try and stay employed, something absolutely nobody wants to see happen to the Kraken. So, if it might, Francis needs to go. If it might not, great, but where’s the improvement and what’s the articulated plan for growth and success?

I took your meaning in the point, but didn't have a lot to add as while I don't think there's a crazy high chance Francis does that (partly because he never does _anything_) there certainly isn't a non-zero chance. Look no further than the former Arizona Coyotes trading a 1st and a bunch of prospects (the one I remember off the top of my head being current Flames defenseman Kevin Bahl) for a partial season of Taylor Hall. It can and does happen.

Dude would literally argue with you that water isn't wet. Place is light years better with him blocked, just talking to you, RCH, Marquis, Fistfull, et al.

 

[Kevinsane]

I took your meaning in the point, but didn't have a lot to add as while I don't think there's a crazy high chance Francis does that (partly because he never does _anything_) there certainly isn't a non-zero chance. Look no further than the former Arizona Coyotes trading a 1st and a bunch of prospects (the one I remember off the top of my head being current Flames defenseman Kevin Bahl) for a partial season of Taylor Hall. It can and does happen.

Dude would literally argue with you that water isn't wet. Place is light years better with him blocked, just talking to you, RCH, Marquis, Fistfull, et al.

I concur. We have a great group of regulars that make this forum a welcoming place to discuss the Kraken because, while we all want to see the team succeed, we can see and acknowledge that it’s not.
Sports isn’t personal. Hakstol seemed like a nice man. Bylsma and Francis seem like nice men, so too Grubauer. The game, though, is performance based. They’re simply not performing, hence the collective cries for change or at worst a stated plan to better succeed. In the absence of one, we’re absolutely going to air our frustrations. To argue that everything’s fine because it could be worse adds nothing to the conversation.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Dude would literally argue with you that water isn't wet. Place is light years better with him blocked, just talking to you, RCH, Marquis, Fistfull, et al.

Just coming from the main board, I commended Kraken on a hard-fought win against the Flames and said this would have likely been a loss with Grubauer in goal (why I think that requires no further evidence, I thought). He popped up out of nowhere telling me I don't know that for sure and that the only goal Daccord allowed that night was his mistake. So yeah, strange character.

 

[Scomerica]

It feels like he is just the wrong gm for now. Either ownership backs down and accepts its going to take time under him which may never come or we get a gm in that is prepared to take Vegas style risks to accumulate players and capital by wheeling and dealing. We're stuck in mediocrity right now, pretty much the worst place to be.

Someone mentioned about gourde. Probably the exact player you try get something on yet there's talk we are trying to extend him. Why? He's not getting any younger. You have guys like winterton, Morrison and some others ready for more game time and experience. It serves no benefit other than a gm getting desperate.

I'm glad ownership want to be ambitious and prepared to spend but it feels like they have backed the wrong horse and all we are doing is getting stuck with expensive contracts and no cap space (and not being any better for it)

 

[Fuhrious]

It feels like he is just the wrong gm for now. Either ownership backs down and accepts its going to take time under him which may never come or we get a gm in that is prepared to take Vegas style risks to accumulate players and capital by wheeling and dealing. We're stuck in mediocrity right now, pretty much the worst place to be.

Someone mentioned about gourde. Probably the exact player you try get something on yet there's talk we are trying to extend him. Why? He's not getting any younger. You have guys like winterton, Morrison and some others ready for more game time and experience. It serves no benefit other than a gm getting desperate.

I'm glad ownership want to be ambitious and prepared to spend but it feels like they have backed the wrong horse and all we are doing is getting stuck with expensive contracts and no cap space (and not being any better for it)

I’m getting absolutely skewered on BlueSky for saying the stuff we’re all saying here, presumably by people who are just fans for the good vibes…so it’s ramped up my cynicism a bit more than usual. My initial reaction to this was to reply “apparently the team thinks it’s more important to re-sign Gourde so they can post pictures of his family at a pumpkin patch on social media, than they care about fielding competitive hockey teams”.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I’m getting absolutely skewered on BlueSky for saying the stuff we’re all saying here, presumably by people who are just fans for the good vibes…so it’s ramped up my cynicism a bit more than usual. My initial reaction to this was to reply “apparently the team thinks it’s more important to re-sign Gourde so they can post pictures of his family at a pumpkin patch on social media, than they care about fielding competitive hockey teams”.

I don't bother having discussions on Reddit or X/Bluesky because most people posting there are not as knowledgeable about hockey as HFBoards.

Some people hate hearing anything negative about the team, but you ask the same people how to improve it, and they will have no answer. It's like they expect things to fix themselves magically. Generally, those are the same kind of people who would want Gourde and Tanev re-signed and have no idea on how cap logistics work.

Don't waste your time there.

 

[Fuhrious]

I don't bother having discussions on Reddit or X/Bluesky because most people posting there are not as knowledgeable about hockey as HFBoards.

Some people hate hearing anything negative about the team, but you ask the same people how to improve it, and they will have no answer. It's like they expect things to fix themselves magically. Generally, those are the same kind of people who would want Gourde and Tanev re-signed and have no idea on how cap logistics work.

Don't waste your time there.

Yeah I think you’re right. It started this morning getting called an “emotionally stunted sports bro” by some woman who was mad that I was complaining about Grubauer, going on to say “he’s a nice guy and some of us just like him”.


That should probably have been my cue to exit.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Yeah I think you’re right. It started this morning getting called an “emotionally stunted sports bro” by some woman who was mad that I was complaining about Grubauer, going on to say “he’s a nice guy and some of us just like him”.


That should probably have been my cue to exit.

Ha ha. Yes. People who take criticism about players as personal affronts to themselves are definitely not worth having discussions with.

 

[majormajor]

- I'm not down on our drafting in the slightest. It's fine. The points will catch up for Wright. I like Miettinen and Catton, heck even Sale looks good this year.

- The team not being good has little to do with amateur drafting, good or bad, because those players are too young regardless. Even an above average #5 OA pick is still likely a marginal player at age 21. Check back in later.

- The last window to go for an aggressive Vegas type of play was two seasons ago now. I made the point at the time that it was rebuild or go big, just based on the age distribution of the roster. The last two offseasons have put us not just in the middle but below it. This is a long term play now.

- This is all pre-ordained by the structure of the expansion draft: leaving aside Vegas type plays, we were always going to have an awkward age distribution with a big prime age gap in it come years 3-6. That's us now, a team with over the hill players and an increasing number of very young players who aren't old enough to do much yet.

 

[Fuhrious]

This next stretch of 7 games could be bad

@ Carolina
@ Islanders
@ New Jersey
@ Rangers
Vs Florida
Vs Boston
Vs Tampa

Also am realizing that I recently called this last stretch of 5 games fairly important as it was agiants teams they need to be picking up points off of… and they went 1-4 in them.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Well, it seems Francis "competing roster" has a problem even doing that while he was also able to change coaches and spend a fortune in free agency with Stephenson taking the cake.

I think, like someone else said before, he was the wrong pick for the job of building an expansion team. You need to take chances, make deals and be creative and those are things Francis just doesn't do.

I’ve had a lot of patience with Francis, but he’s going to have to make a tough decision about Grubauer, because he f***ing sucks.

Unless there's a miracle and Grubuaer turns iit around, his will be Grubauer's last season in Seattle.

A buyout would be 4x $1.9M which is better than two more years of that contract.

I agree with you about things not getting better quickly. But what I was trying to say is that Francis has put us in the position we are in. For a team playing the way we are, you would think we are a borderline tanking team. But we are a team spending to the cap with lots of long-term contracts for players in their late 20s or early 30s.

I also don't think its "fair" for Francis in the sense "IF" his timeline was accelerated by management. But at the end of the day, that's his job. The direction of the team right now is not that of an expansion team or that of a competitive team.

To be honest.
I think this team needs at least a re-tool but the GM has backed us in a corner with bad contracts that you just can't get rid off unless you take on evenly crappy contracts, eat money and/or pay with picks/prospects.

But hey at least we've got Stephenson at 7X $6.25M to be our faceoff specialist who you can't play in your own zone.
I guess those two stanley cups come in really handy and help the team out a lot...

 

[Fuhrious]

Listening to ECH and someone in chat asks "what Hail Mary can Francis even make" and the host sighs and pauses for a second...and you realize there's nothing. He's leveraged this team so far against the cap, with contracts no other team in their right mind would touch, that there's literally nothing he can do besides cross his fingers and hope they figure it out.

That hitting me while I folded laundry didn't feel great.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Listening to ECH and someone in chat asks "what Hail Mary can Francis even make" and the host sighs and pauses for a second...and you realize there's nothing. He's leveraged this team so far against the cap, with contracts no other team in their right mind would touch, that there's literally nothing he can do besides cross his fingers and hope they figure it out.

That hitting me while I folded laundry didn't feel great.

I know. There is no quick fix here. This looks more like a "rebuild" situation.

In my opinion every roster player minus Evans, Beniers and Wright should be on the table to get moved. But I am not confident Francis accepts the fact that the team just sucks and we need to have a hard refresh or rebuild.

 

[Fuhrious]

I know. There is no quick fix here. This looks more like a "rebuild" situation.

In my opinion every roster player minus Evans, Beniers and Wright should be on the table to get moved. But I am not confident Francis accepts the fact that the team just sucks and we need to have a hard refresh or rebuild.

I think that's the part that cuts the deepest. The dude doesn't have a creative or flashy bone in his body. We've seen the extent of his willingness to accept risk...another nothingburger trade for Sprong (last season Tatar). Anything he does beyond that is completely out of character and impossible to predict.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I think that's the part that cuts the deepest. The dude doesn't have a creative or flashy bone in his body. We've seen the extent of his willingness to accept risk...another nothingburger trade for Sprong (last season Tatar). Anything he does beyond that is completely out of character and impossible to predict.

And unfortunately the time for creativity is past. With the contracts we currently have there is not much flexibility to "fix" the team. The creativity to trade assets within the last 2 seasons to get a true difference maker may have helped put the team on the right track. But now, I think its too late.

 

[kihei]

I know. There is no quick fix here. This looks more like a "rebuild" situation.

In my opinion every roster player minus Evans, Beniers and Wright should be on the table to get moved. But I am not confident Francis accepts the fact that the team just sucks and we need to have a hard refresh or rebuild.

Which is the rub. There has been so little evidence based on his off-season decisions that Francis is the right person to fix the problems that he primarily has created. I don't envy the guy that comes after him, though, as he will start with compromised options. We all need to be in for the long haul.