Ron Francis’ future.

[Kevinsane]

Do the Kraken need to make the playoffs for Francis to last beyond this season?
Stephenson and Montour have been good and great signings respectively, but the Kraken lack an elite scorer, and while there’s talent in the pipeline, they are far from ready.
This team feels like the Wild pre-Kaprizov. Just there. Not terrible, but nothing to get excited about either.
If Francis starts to feel heat he’ll do what most GM’s do to save their jobs, and mortgage the future for a shiny stopgap.
I’m trying to envision a positive step forward under his leadership, but is it time to think beyond our current front office?

Click to read more...

 

[gstommylee]

Do the Kraken need to make the playoffs for Francis to last beyond this season?
Stephenson and Montour have been good and great signings respectively, but the Kraken lack an elite scorer, and while there’s talent in the pipeline, they are far from ready.
This team feels like the Wild pre-Kaprizov. Just there. Not terrible, but nothing to get excited about either.
If Francis starts to feel heat he’ll do what most GM’s do to save their jobs, and mortgage the future for a shiny stopgap.
I’m trying to envision a positive step forward under his leadership, but is it time to think beyond our current front office?

Elite scorers don't grow on trees and don't come cheap. Unless fans are willing to toss away top prospects and hope the other are willing to take a contract, we are going to have to continue to develop our prospects.

 

[Kevinsane]

Elite scorers don't grow on trees and don't come cheap. Unless fans are willing to toss away top prospects and hope the other are willing to take a contract, we are going to have to continue to develop our prospects.

Oh, agreed. I’m concerned that if Francis feels heat to make the playoffs, or senses he may lose his job, we see Catton or Firkus go elsewhere for a 32 year old who put up 60 points.
If the team makes a change I hope it’s swift and unexpected, otherwise human nature suggests a fire sale.

 

[gstommylee]

Oh, agreed. I’m concerned that if Francis feels heat to make the playoffs, or senses he may lose his job, we see Catton or Firkus go elsewhere for a 32 year old who put up 60 points.
If the team makes a change I hope it’s swift and unexpected, otherwise human nature suggests a fire sale.

why would we get rid of catton, who has potential to be a top line winger as he develops.

top elite goal scorers also don't come cheap in cap hit. Take marner and what he could ask for. We would have to move quite a bit of contracts just to afford that cap hit + reducing our depth to cheaper contracts/prospects.

Marner would also require us to give up top assets just to have a chance to re-sign him to avoid dealing with FA prices.

 

[Kevinsane]

why would we get rid of catton, who has potential to be a top line winger...

Well, that’s just it. WE wouldn’t, but a GM sensing his job is in trouble might. It happens. The Predators got Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat. The Sharks got Joe Thornton for a bunch of not much. In both cases GMs mortgaged the future under pressure to make the postseason.
All I’m saying is that I don’t want a scenario whereby Francis makes a move like that to stay in the General Manager’s chair.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

It would be so out of character for him to make a trade like that. Even if he was that desperate, I think it would be a prospect other than Catton (and maybe Sale).

 

[gstommylee]

Well, that’s just it. WE wouldn’t, but a GM sensing his job is in trouble might. It happens. The Predators got Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat. The Sharks got Joe Thornton for a bunch of not much. In both cases GMs mortgaged the future under pressure to make the postseason.
All I’m saying is that I don’t want a scenario whereby Francis makes a move like that to stay in the General Manager’s chair.

problem is if we give up too many top prospects on top of moving contracts the team is gonna be worse at depth just for the sake of upgrading 1 roster spot. If we want to win the cup we need elite talent AND depth. If we make ourselves worse in terms of prospects its going to be hard to manage the cap to have both that elite scoring talent and depth needed to make it far in the playoffs and win the cup.

 

[gstommylee]

Also there is no guarantee that any elite scorer would want to sign here with out being costly in terms of AAV so there's a risk we give up prospects and what not for said player only to see him walk. We are far from having that one player away from actually competing for the cup to be making that kind of risk. Meaning a sign and trade would be necessary. Marner has a NMC so who knows if he will waive for us.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I just don't know where Francis is going with the team. I get that he is trying to compete now and understood the Montour decision. Dunn and Montour are quite a 1-2 punch on D. But the Stephenson decision was always a big question mark. I know the intent behind it but we already have other players of his level on the team. What we needed was a true game changer.

The more I see Francis, the more I feel like he is really struggling to try to adjust to management's decision to get aggressive with winning now. I would understand if he took risks like moving out prospects and picks to get a true game-changer, but all he has done is replace mediocrity with more and older mediocrity. With no true blue-chip prospect in the wings other than Catton, it really concerns me.

For the future of the team, it may actually be best that we are out of the playoffs race at the TDL. Move Gourde, Tanev, etc. to try and get atleast 1 more 1st round pick for next season. It's strange to see an expansion team 4th season with no extra 1st round picks. Also, lets not compare us to Vegas because they went all in right from the start which we never did.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

For the future of the team, it may actually be best that we are out of the playoffs race at the TDL. Move Gourde, Tanev, etc. to try and get atleast 1 more 1st round pick for next season. It's strange to see an expansion team 4th season with no extra 1st round picks. Also, lets not compare us to Vegas because they went all in right from the start which we never did.

Like I've said before.
Uless he wants out or someone gives us an offer yu absolutely can't refues I have my doubts of Francis actually making that decision and trading Gourde.

Also, given the roster I expect this team to still be around the 10th-is place of the WC come TDL which gives him even more of a possibilty to keep him cause he still wants to chase a playoff spot.

Talking about Francis future.
I think he has president of hockey operations written all over his name(cause he's somewhat of a face of the franchsie) with someone taking on the GM role.
I just hope that one dude won't be Jason Botterill.

 

[Fuhrious]

I just don't know where Francis is going with the team. I get that he is trying to compete now and understood the Montour decision. Dunn and Montour are quite a 1-2 punch on D. But the Stephenson decision was always a big question mark. I know the intent behind it but we already have other players of his level on the team. What we needed was a true game changer.

The more I see Francis, the more I feel like he is really struggling to try to adjust to management's decision to get aggressive with winning now. I would understand if he took risks like moving out prospects and picks to get a true game-changer, but all he has done is replace mediocrity with more and older mediocrity. With no true blue-chip prospect in the wings other than Catton, it really concerns me.

For the future of the team, it may actually be best that we are out of the playoffs race at the TDL. Move Gourde, Tanev, etc. to try and get atleast 1 more 1st round pick for next season. It's strange to see an expansion team 4th season with no extra 1st round picks. Also, lets not compare us to Vegas because they went all in right from the start which we never did.

The Anaheim broadcast crew commented last night how unusual it was for there to still be 9 players left on the Kraken roster who were picked in the expansion draft 4 years ago. That those players are usually very transitory, and in Seattle's case haven't been. To my mind that speaks to the absolute passivity of Francis. He'll do a Sprong / Tatar / Wennberg low-impact trade but won't pull the trigger on something impactful to move a big or "popular" player like Gourde (or Eberle last season).

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Like I've said before.
Uless he wants out or someone gives us an offer yu absolutely can't refues I have my doubts of Francis actually making that decision and trading Gourde.

Also, given the roster I expect this team to still be around the 10th-is place of the WC come TDL which gives him even more of a possibilty to keep him cause he still wants to chase a playoff spot.

Talking about Francis future.
I think he has president of hockey operations written all over his name(cause he's somewhat of a face of the franchsie) with someone taking on the GM role.
I just hope that one dude won't be Jason Botterill.

Re-signing Gourde may actually be the last straw for me. If we are as bad as you think for the WC and he keeps Gourde, I will definitely be ready for him to go.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

The Anaheim broadcast crew commented last night how unusual it was for there to still be 9 players left on the Kraken roster who were picked in the expansion draft 4 years ago. That those players are usually very transitory, and in Seattle's case haven't been. To my mind that speaks to the absolute passivity of Francis. He'll do a Sprong / Tatar / Wennberg low-impact trade but won't pull the trigger on something impactful to move a big or "popular" player like Gourde (or Eberle last season).

Yep. He is too afraid to fail. I don't think that works in professional sports, whether you are actually competing on the ice/field or managing the team.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

The Anaheim broadcast crew commented last night how unusual it was for there to still be 9 players left on the Kraken roster who were picked in the expansion draft 4 years ago. That those players are usually very transitory, and in Seattle's case haven't been. To my mind that speaks to the absolute passivity of Francis. He'll do a Sprong / Tatar / Wennberg low-impact trade but won't pull the trigger on something impactful to move a big or "popular" player like Gourde (or Eberle last season).

I just think the ownership expecting something of this team right away completely screwed up anything he might hav eliked to do and him just going for middling guys and middling contracts get's you what the Kraken have.

A team of good players, trying hard but not talented enough to consistantly get the wins and do more than just trying to make the playoffs.

It reminds me a bit of the final years of the Sonics who never wanted to be bad and ended up as a middling team going nowhere.
Ray Allen just said that the Sonics, when he was in Seattle, actualy didn't try to win and weren't serious about it.

That seems a bit what Francis is doing as well. ---> Pretend competing.

Yep. He is too afraid to fail. I don't think that works in professional sports, whether you are actually competing on the ice/field or managing the team.

Yep, he's playing the "safe game" which usually doesn't work and ends up with some in between crap that needs the next GM to "clean house".

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I just think the ownership expecting something of this team right away completely screwed up anything he might hav eliked to do and him just going for middling guys and middling contracts get's you what the Kraken have.

A team of good players, trying hard but not talented enough to consistantly get the wins and do more than just trying to make the playoffs.

It reminds me a bit of the final years of the Sonics who never wanted to be bad and ended up as a middling team going nowhere.
Ray Allen just said that the Sonics, when he was in Seattle, actualy didn't try to win and weren't serious about it.

That seems a bit what Francis is doing as well. ---> Pretend competing.



Yep, he's playing the "safe game" which usually doesn't work and ends up with some in between crap that needs the next GM to "clean house".

As the great one said, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take".

 

[GrungeHockey]

I think he's done a terrible job this season and the early promise of this franchise has been wasted.

The drafting hasn't been that good. How many Wright conversations have we already had? There's prospects, but not a lot of clear stand outs despite the high picks.

Free agency he blew. Overpaid overpaid overpaid. While you might like Montour, the term and price tag is too much and Stephenson is just wasteful spending. So we have a mediocre roster with no real cap flexibility.

Bylsma is not a good NHL coach. He's worse than Hakstol and the team plays a more boring type of hockey with lesser results.

The team is so soft they make Buffalo look tough.

This was a new blank slate franchise and I so wanted to love them but I have to say this season the team leaves me flat and uninterested. I do not see any progress or bright future without changes. They are mediocre blah.

All of that is on Francis. He should go, yesterday.

(I know this will piss some fans off, but sorry, it's the cold hard truth)

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I think he's done a terrible job this season and the early promise of this franchise has been wasted.

The drafting hasn't been that good. How many Wright conversations have we already had? There's prospects, but not a lot of clear stand outs despite the high picks.

Free agency he blew. Overpaid overpaid overpaid. While you might like Montour, the term and price tag is too much and Stephenson is just wasteful spending. So we have a mediocre roster with no real cap flexibility.

Bylsma is not a good NHL coach. He's worse than Hakstol and the team plays a more boring type of hockey with lesser results.

The team is so soft they make Buffalo look tough.

This was a new blank slate franchise and I so wanted to love them but I have to say this season the team leaves me flat and uninterested. I do not see any progress or bright future without changes. They are mediocre blah.

All of that is on Francis. He should go, yesterday.

(I know this will piss some fans off, but sorry, it's the cold hard truth)

I am not as hard on Francis as you are but it is impossible to argue your points. The jury is still out on Bylsma but at the quarter point this season, it does not look great.

 

[Fuhrious]

I think he's done a terrible job this season and the early promise of this franchise has been wasted.

The drafting hasn't been that good. How many Wright conversations have we already had? There's prospects, but not a lot of clear stand outs despite the high picks.

Free agency he blew. Overpaid overpaid overpaid. While you might like Montour, the term and price tag is too much and Stephenson is just wasteful spending. So we have a mediocre roster with no real cap flexibility.

Bylsma is not a good NHL coach. He's worse than Hakstol and the team plays a more boring type of hockey with lesser results.

The team is so soft they make Buffalo look tough.

This was a new blank slate franchise and I so wanted to love them but I have to say this season the team leaves me flat and uninterested. I do not see any progress or bright future without changes. They are mediocre blah.

All of that is on Francis. He should go, yesterday.

(I know this will piss some fans off, but sorry, it's the cold hard truth)

I mean, you're welcome to your opinion honestly. I honestly think its hard to argue with you?

I kind of suspect that Francis was exactly the wrong hire for the perfect storm the Kraken franchise found themselves in. First of all, none of the other teams were going to allow themselves to get "fooled again" in the expansion draft and it was going to take a savvy wheeler and dealer to suss out some flashy high risk/high reward deals...and Francis will NEVER be THAT guy. Secondly, the 2022 entry draft looks worse and worse the further it gets in the rear view. You don't have to look far on here to see people dragging not just Wright but Slafkovsky, Nemec still hasn't made a splash, Gauthier is on his second team already and isn't setting the world on fire there either, Jiricek hasn't figured it out...

Looking at that list, there isn't an obvious "Oh, well he should have picked <X PLAYER> instead". _MAYBE_ Mintyukov? It's another of these "teams literally tried to out-tank each other...for this?" drafts.

 

[GrungeHockey]

It's true. I was wrong on Wright as well, but it's his job to get all these things right not mine. That's why he gets the big bucks, and he's failing. It's not just where they are, it's where can they get to next? imo the future isn't as bright as it should be.

 

[Kevinsane]

It's true. I was wrong on Wright as well, but it's his job to get all these things right not mine. That's why he gets the big bucks, and he's failing. It's not just where they are, it's where can they get to next? imo the future isn't as bright as it should be.

And that’s the part that gets me down. Even if say a high scoring UFA wanted to play in Seattle, who would they be dying to play WITH? Who jumps out as an elite winger to complement a centre, or an elite centre to complement a winger? There’s promise in the pipeline, but they’re years away, and nobody on the Kraken right now is having either a breakout or career year. So neither right nor 2027 looks especially promising. Montour is playing well, and Dunn when healthy is solid, but of the top 6 forwards who raises you out of your seat? Who might in three years? I’d bet on Catton, maybe Rehkopf, and maybe maybe Sale. That’s not exactly inspiring. I’d welcome a new management team.

Sigh.

 

[gstommylee]

I mean, you're welcome to your opinion honestly. I honestly think its hard to argue with you?

I kind of suspect that Francis was exactly the wrong hire for the perfect storm the Kraken franchise found themselves in. First of all, none of the other teams were going to allow themselves to get "fooled again" in the expansion draft and it was going to take a savvy wheeler and dealer to suss out some flashy high risk/high reward deals...and Francis will NEVER be THAT guy. Secondly, the 2022 entry draft looks worse and worse the further it gets in the rear view. You don't have to look far on here to see people dragging not just Wright but Slafkovsky, Nemec still hasn't made a splash, Gauthier is on his second team already and isn't setting the world on fire there either, Jiricek hasn't figured it out...

Looking at that list, there isn't an obvious "Oh, well he should have picked <X PLAYER> instead". _MAYBE_ Mintyukov? It's another of these "teams literally tried to out-tank each other...for this?" drafts.

An we would be suddenly winning games and still have a top 10 prospect pool if we had someone else as GM. We can hire someone that's way way worse and have a worse prospect pool or have less of one by just trade them away.

And that’s the part that gets me down. Even if say a high scoring UFA wanted to play in Seattle, who would they be dying to play WITH? Who jumps out as an elite winger to complement a centre, or an elite centre to complement a winger? There’s promise in the pipeline, but they’re years away, and nobody on the Kraken right now is having either a breakout or career year. So neither right nor 2027 looks especially promising. Montour is playing well, and Dunn when healthy is solid, but of the top 6 forwards who raises you out of your seat? Who might in three years? I’d bet on Catton, maybe Rehkopf, and maybe maybe Sale. That’s not exactly inspiring. I’d welcome a new management team.

Sigh.

Again different management won't make this team better just like that. They'll dealing with the same difficulties as ron is now.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

An we would be suddenly winning games and still have a top 10 prospect pool if we had someone else as GM. We can hire someone that's way way worse and have a worse prospect pool or have less of one by just trade them away.



Again different management won't make this team better just like that. They'll dealing with the same difficulties as ron is now.

But 4 years of a different GM may have. Francis has done a decent job drafting but we have 4 drafts without an elite player to show for. We also have a roster full of players with long contracts running through 35+. We have never tried to maximize the draft by getting more than 1 1st round pick. All of this is a bad mix for an expansion team.

Let’s not pretend that Francis is infallible.

 

[The Marquis]

I’ve had a lot of patience with Francis, but he’s going to have to make a tough decision about Grubauer, because he f***ing sucks.

 

[gstommylee]

But 4 years of a different GM may have. Francis has done a decent job drafting but we have 4 drafts without an elite player to show for. We also have a roster full of players with long contracts running through 35+. We have never tried to maximize the draft by getting more than 1 1st round pick. All of this is a bad mix for an expansion team.

Let’s not pretend that Francis is infallible.

problem is its not going to make things better very very quickly, it has better odds that things get worse. Like getting rid of our top prospects to the point we have nothing great in the prospect pool, to having a lot of dead weigh to make it even more difficult to even improve the team...

 

[Fuhrious]

Surprised y’all even still try to talk to that guy. Argues with literally everything everyone says and never ever admits he’s wrong. Saw him get absolutely clowned on the main board over something incorrect he said about Kovalchuks contract, and kept right on talking like it didn’t even happen. Blocked him not long thereafter.

I assume he’s irrationally arguing that we should somehow just keep Francis even though he’s doing an objectively lousy job because firing him would somehow make things even worse? As if that makes any sense?