Roman Josi or Drew Doughty?

[Raccoon Jesus]

And how many had Doughty had once the rest of that roster aged? 0. 0. After the age 27.

Well then that's extra damning since Doughty is still at a better scoring pace in the playoffs than Josi even taking just post age 27 years into account

And that's WITH the harder minutes by a longshot.

But we already knew how knowledgeable you were about Drew when you called him 'average.' No one's attacked Josi with any such thing.

 

[triggrman]

Well then that's extra damning since Doughty is still at a better scoring pace in the playoffs than Josi even taking just post age 27 years into account

And that's WITH the harder minutes by a longshot.

But we already knew how knowledgeable you were about Drew when you called him 'average.' No one's attacked Josi with any such thing.

Average after age 27.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Average after age 27.

But he hasn't been. He checked out for sure and had one truly terrible year, then about another 1.5 rough years before returning to form and was on his way to arguably his best season yet before he had his first major injury of his career. He's been great since on a mediocre team which is why the suggestion that he gets carried by great teams is garbage, he's been in Norris contention early in his career and late in his career on teams that were lucky to make the playoffs largely behind him holding together a patchwork defense.

It's a myth that this forum loves to perpetuate, that Drew didn't exist before 2012 or after 2014.

 

[HFpapi]

Doughty and Kopitar will never get the props they deserve for sacrificing their offensive numbers to play winning hockey. Their peaks coincided with one of the lowest scoring eras ever while playing on arguably the leagues most defensive minded coach/system with Sutter.

Watching Doughty play, he had the skill, skating, and puck carrying ability to be a 75 point Dman (in that era mind you when hardly anyone was doing that) if he wanted to be a free wheeler.

There was nothing Doughty couldn't or didn't do at his peak. True definition of a #1 but in retrospect some will look back at a guy who only hit 50 points a few times vs a guy with 96 & 85 point seasons.

Big fan of Josi and really like him but this is Doughty for peak, prime, career.

 

[HFpapi]

Can it really be argued that Josi hasn't had a better peak than Doughty? Even if you think Doughty has had the better career, Josi's peak was still a 96 point season compared to 60 points from Doughty.

There have been fifteen 70+ point seasons by Dmen over the past 2 seasons.

There were eight 70+ point seasons by Dmen from 2009/10-2017/18 (Doughtys prime) which is 9 seasons.

Twice as many in the past 2 seasons than in 9 seasons of Doughtys peak. Scoring is way up. Now, I'm not disputing Josi is the better offensive Dman, but context matters. The offensive gap would look much smaller if Doughty was in his prime now or Josi was in his in 2011.

 

[Rorschach]

And how many had Doughty had once the rest of that roster aged? 0. 0. After the age 27.

That's valid. But, grading against Josi, three is more.

 

[JPT]

There have been fifteen 70+ point seasons by Dmen over the past 2 seasons.

There were eight 70+ point seasons by Dmen from 2009/10-2017/18 (Doughtys prime) which is 9 seasons.

Twice as many in the past 2 seasons than in 9 seasons of Doughtys peak. Scoring is way up. Now, I'm not disputing Josi is the better offensive Dman, but context matters. The offensive gap would look much smaller if Doughty was in his prime now or Josi was in his in 2011.

I don't have a problem with adding context, but let me ask you this. With all of that context, even with a smaller gap, Josi still had the higher peak, correct?

 

[triggrman]

My last argument

In the last 7 seasons combined, Josi is #1 in points for defensemen with 447. Has won a Norris and had 2 other runner up finishes.

In the back half of his career, Josi has really improved.

 

[triggrman]

That's valid. But, grading against Josi, three is more.

Why does Josi not get credit for his playoff run where he scored 6 goals (more than any of DD's had in a single playoff season) and 14 points. Is that not compariable to DD's 18 points playoff which was his best?

 

[triggrman]

I don't have a problem with adding context, but let me ask you this. With all of that context, even with a smaller gap, Josi still had the higher peak, correct?

Also add that Doughty also played in those same seasons at the same age as Josi, they're only 6 months apart in age.

 

[HFpapi]

I don't have a problem with adding context, but let me ask you this. With all of that context, even with a smaller gap, Josi still had the higher peak, correct?

No not correct because my entire point is the offensive edge in terms of actual skill and ability is smaller than it looks when you just say 96 > 60 and beyond the slight offensive edge I think Doughtys overall skill set is much more complete and he controls the game to a larger degree.

I think Doughty was all around probably the best defenseman of his era and I think the only reason he wasn't appreciated as such is because system + era kept his numbers lower.

Keith, Chara, Pietrangelo, Weber also never came close to Josi's numbers and I think they are all better than Josi at their peak as well.

If you want to win a cup you take peak Doughty over peak Josi.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Doty.


Josi is better offensively but he’s mid af defensively and Doty is a championship cornerstone type of 2 way player

 

[HFpapi]

Also add that Doughty also played in those same seasons at the same age as Josi, they're only 6 months apart in age.

That doesn't change the fact that Doughty's peak was like 8-10 years ago and Josi's was 2 years ago. Players don't progress or age at the same rate.

Doughty was a phenomenon basically out of the gate and was in his 4th season when Josi came into the league. Josi is aging like a fine wine and Doughty clearly fell off.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

I’m projecting in my answer Doughty had the better and earlier peak but Josi is aging much better and in 5-6 years will pass Drew for the better career, especially if the Preds can enjoy some playoff success

 

[Coffey]

Even if that were true, that's at worst two more than Josi.

This is a pretty damning track record for a guy who is such a difference maker the other 82 games.

View attachment 906145

As many playoffs over 7 points as Doughty.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Peak - Josi
Prime - Doughty
Career - Doughty

 

[BlueMed]

Drew Doughty and it's not remotely close.

 

[ESH]

Going to be different and say Doughty peak, Josi career. Doughty's peak had him a top NHL defender and big contributor to cup wins, but outside of those years has been just very good. Josi has been a top level defender for much more sustained period than Doughty even if the accomplishments don't necessarily rise to the same level.

It might seem like Josi has been at a top level for longer than Doughty because he’s been better lately, but Doughty was 3rd in Norris voting 2 years before Josi ever even played a game in the NHL and he’s still receiving Norris votes today.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Tough call but I think Doughty. If Josi keeps up what he has been doing then maybe it changes.

 

[Rorschach]

Why does Josi not get credit for his playoff run where he scored 6 goals (more than any of DD's had in a single playoff season) and 14 points. Is that not compariable to DD's 18 points playoff which was his best?

I like how your justification is points for a defenseman’s overall effectiveness…because it isn’t. And again, Doughty has multiple runs, not just one.

 

[triggrman]

I like how your justification is points for a defenseman’s overall effectiveness…because it isn’t. And again, Doughty has multiple runs, not just one.

Are you saying Josi is bad in the defensive end, because he isn't.

 

[inthe6ix]

Josi.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Doty.


Josi is better offensively but he’s mid af defensively and Doty is a championship cornerstone type of 2 way player

Compared to Josi, Doughty is mid offensively.

 

[Rorschach]

Are you saying Josi is bad in the defensive end, because he isn't.

Are you saying a player is only good or only bad on an aspect of their game?

 

[x Tame Impala]

Are you saying Josi is bad in the defensive end, because he isn't.

He’s no Doughty that’s for sure.