Celebrity Death: Robbie Robertson

[Jumptheshark]

Oh, I don't disagree, I just believe that a major contributing factor in the break-up was bad blood related to song writing credits and what it meant financially. Robbie was more astute than the others financially and made more off royalties.

The name Albert Grossman comes up a lot when it comes down to just what went down. Grossman was a legend by the time he was retained by The Band and he decided the he would focus on RR and everything he did with The Band was built about keeping RR happy. Grossman was to RR as Irving Azoff if to Don Henley and was to Glen Frey.

It wasn't till after Grossman died that Helm and Denko got their original contracts back and found the Grossman had given RR what is called " a favourite nation" clause. It is viewed as "some people are just more equal than others"

One of corner stones of the problem between Helm and Robertson was publishing rights. Helm never sold his (unlike the rest of the band) to RR. Helm believed Grossman short changed him on the publishing side of things and even after Helms death, his family wanted accounting of just how much Helm should have gotten versus what Grossman actually gave him. Helm believed he owened 1/6 of the publishing rights but it sounds like he only received 1/16 of the money he should have received.

I believe the Helm family were still suing RR for property accounting of publishing rights up late last year

 

[Mike C]

Probably the greatest musician from Toronto. Arguments could be made for Neil Young if you consider him from Toronto (had a pretty nomadic childhood on where he lived), and there are others


My dad is a The Band/Robbie Robertson super fan. Like, to the extent he almost named me Robbie (didn't because I have a cousin named Robert). There are a few things. There was a massive dispute over writing credits. Helm believed they were all essentially writers because of how they worked in the studio, whereas Robbie is generally credited as the writer on most songs. Another is, Robbie was married and a family guy, whereas the others were a bit more loose cannons in their lives. And as mentioned, Robbie was never a big fan of touring, while he did performances post-The Band, I'm not sure he ever went on a legit longterm solo tour.

Some of my earliest memories when related to music are listening to The Band. Since I'm in Toronto, I'm hoping some independent theatre or Tiff has a reshowing of The Last Waltz in theatre.

Toronto has produced many great musicians and singers, There are legends----, Celine Dion, Jeff Healy, Geddy Lee, certainly Neil and Robbie

Others who are great in their genre---Leslie Faust, Bryan Adams, Justin Bieber, Bruce Cockburn, Rufus Wainwright, Pat Tracers, Sarah Garner, Anne Murray, Serena, Alanis, Shania, k-os, Emily Haines

Robbie is up there but the list is extensive. Maybe do a poll, greatest and favorite

Greatest, I might go Robbie---favorite k-os

 

[VMBM]

I love the band but when it comes down to the creation of the songs? They filmed themselves making the music and while I will say RR was the lyrists in the band--the music was the creation of what they all did with the lyrics that RR brought to them and I can see why there was some bitter feelings when, after RR left and before the rest of the band got back together. The music media made it look like RR was sole creative force in the band and that did not help the bad blood

This is absolute nonsense. Total crap.

Just like Levon Helm, I think you're mixing up songwriting with song arranging; Robertson did not just write lyrics but also the music for most of the songs. Just check how many songs the Robertson-less Band wrote on their albums in the 1990s, almost nothing. Same with e.g. Levon Helm in his solo career. Quite frankly, I find it amazing that this even needs to be debated.

No one has said that he was the sole creative force, but he certainly was the main creative force; anyone disagreeing with that doesn't know what he/she is talking about.

 

[93LEAFS]

Toronto has produced many great musicians and singers, There are legends----Leonard Cohen, Celine Dion, Jeff Healy, Geddy Lee, Gordon Lightfoot, Joni Mitchell, certainly Neil and Robbie

Others who are great in their genre---Leslie Faust, Bryan Adams, Justin Bieber, Bruce Cockburn, Rufus Wainwright, Pat Tracers, Sarah Garner, Anne Murray, Serena, Alanis, Shania, k-os, Emily Haines

Robbie is up there but the list is extensive. Maybe do a poll, greatest and favorite

Greatest, I might go Cohen---favorite k-os

A lot of those people aren't from Toronto, but from different places in Canada (for example Leonard Cohen is from Montreal). The people on your top list who are born and raised in Toronto is Geddy Lee and Jeff Healy. I believe both Lightfoot and Mitchell got their breaks while living here though.

If we are talking biggest artists from Toronto, you would have to mention Drake and Wknd.

 

[Jumptheshark]

This is absolute nonsense. Total crap.

Just like Levon Helm, I think you're mixing up songwriting with song arranging; Robertson did not just write lyrics but also the music for most of the songs. Just check how many songs the Robertson-less Band wrote on their albums in the 1990s. Or e.g. Levon Helm in his solo career. Quite frankly, I find it amazing that this even needs to be debated.

No one has said that he was the sole creative force, but he certainly was the main creative force; anyone disagreeing with that doesn't know what he/she is talking about.

I am not getting them confused. My brother is a musician(Jazz) and spent many years in and around watching how the songs came together. I think you are down playing how a song grows and comes together when others get involved in songs. RR songs from his solo stuff barely sounded like their music as well

 

[Mike C]

A lot of those people aren't from Toronto, but from different places in Canada (for example Leonard Cohen is from Montreal). The people on your top list who are born and raised in Toronto is Geddy Lee and Jeff Healy. I believe both Lightfoot and Mitchell got their breaks while living here though.

If we are talking biggest artists from Toronto, you would have to mention Drake and Wknd.

Thanks for the intel. I'll correct. Definitely forgot Drake...not familiar with Wknd. What kind of music do they play.

 

[93LEAFS]

Thanks for the intel. I'll correct. Definitely forgot Drake...not familiar with Wknd. What kind of music do they play.

Sorry the Weeknd. If you still don't know he's a massive popstar who played the Superbowl halftime show. Not really my type of music but he's one of the biggest acts in the world these days.

 

[VMBM]

I am not getting them confused. My brother is a musician(Jazz) and spent many years in and around watching how the songs came together. I think you are down playing how a song grows and comes together when others get involved in songs. RR songs from his solo stuff barely sounded like their music as well

At least Robertson had self-written songs on his albums (and on quite a few film soundtracks as well), whereas the other Band members = almost zilch, nada. Rick Danko had the most but there are barely any songs that are solely credited to him.

BTW, I became interested on this issue when I read Helm's book This Wheel's on Fire. Although it is one of my favorite rock biographies ever, I was never convinced about his complaints on songwriting credits; just because you contribute to the arrangement doesn't make you a co-writer of a song. I mean, should Ringo Starr get credit for every Lennon—McCartney composition?

 

[Mike C]

Sorry the Weeknd. If you still don't know he's a massive popstar who played the Superbowl halftime show. Not really my type of music but he's one of the biggest acts in the world these days.

I'm a throwback. Listen to a lot of Tragically Hip, Matthew Good and Sam Roberts. Also like much of the 80s British Invasion

I live in NC but drove delivery 10-12 hours day for many years and wandered upon the Iceberg channel one day on Sirius satellite radio have been hooked ever since. Listen to the Verge a lot now

 

[McGarnagle]

The song I keep listening to since Robbie died was It's in the Way That You Use It by Eric Clapton - Robbie actually wrote the music for it when he was scoring The Color of Money for Scorcese, but his record label wouldn't let him sing on a soundtrack album before his solo album was released so they gave it to Clapton to brush up some lyrics on and sing. Great tune though.

 

[Guardian17]

 

[Jumptheshark]

An example

At least Robertson had self-written songs on his albums (and on quite a few film soundtracks as well), whereas the other Band members = almost zilch, nada. Rick Danko had the most but there are barely any songs that are solely credited to him.

BTW, I became interested on this issue when I read Helm's book This Wheel's on Fire. Although it is one of my favorite rock biographies ever, I was never convinced about his complaints on songwriting credits; just because you contribute to the arrangement doesn't make you a co-writer of a song. I mean, should Ringo Starr get credit for every Lennon—McCartney composition?

Lennon and McCartney that is slightly different. When they came into the studio--they either had everything laid out or most of the idea for the song. Also, they had an agreement where all song would be credited as a Lennon/McCartney song regardless of who brought it to the band, this was one reason Harrisson was shutout by them.

a better example you are looking for is the moody blues. the group agreed, whomever brought a song to the group would get credit for it regardless of how much others put into

another, more recent example is Liberty Devitto suing Billy joel for royalties for 12 songs. He reported won for 6. Billy brought song to the band(which for about 10 years did not change till Billy sacked them on at a time. While no one said how much Devitto got, it was agreed that Devitto rearranged some of the songs bily had brought to them to play

Billy Joel drummer royalties case settled

Lawsuit settled amicably in Manhattan

www.nme.com

Paul LiCalsi, one of the lawyers representing Joel, said, “The case has been amicably resolved.” He refused to discuss the terms of the settlement, reports BBC News, while DeVitto‘s lawyer confirmed that the case has been settled but also declined to give any further details.

 

[Jumptheshark]

 

[VMBM]

An example

Lennon and McCartney that is slightly different. When they came into the studio--they either had everything laid out or most of the idea for the song.

Actually, I believe that's pretty much how it was with Robbie Robertson in regard to The Band. He was clearly more driven and more disciplined than the others and was less affected by drugs and/or booze (although I think Garth Hudson was fairly 'straight' too). As their former 'employer' Ronnie Hawkins has pointed out, Robbie already wrote his first songs at 15 (which were then recorded by Ronnie & the Hawks).

At the beginning of The Band, they were more collaborative, songwriting-wise. On the first album, Music from Big Pink, Robbie wrote 'only' 4 songs out of 11, and especially Richard Manuel also contributed stuff. Unfortunately, Manuel had bad problems with the aforementioned substances and I believe also had some mental health issues, and he soon seemed to dry up creatively. And so it was largely up to Robertson to come up with original material for the group, and the others then helped with the arrangements.

Summa summarum, Robbie Robertson was a more natural and gifted songwriter (both lyrically and musically) than the others, worked harder and was the leader of the group. Thus I don't have problems with him getting more money (in terms of royalties). We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Jumptheshark]

pretty good summing of how to destroy any band. But RR down played how much stuff he did

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[VMBM]

Boohoo.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Actually, I believe that's pretty much how it was with Robbie Robertson in regard to The Band. He was clearly more driven and more disciplined than the others and was less affected by drugs and/or booze (although I think Garth Hudson was fairly 'straight' too). As their former 'employer' Ronnie Hawkins has pointed out, Robbie already wrote his first songs at 15 (which were then recorded by Ronnie & the Hawks).

At the beginning of The Band, they were more collaborative, songwriting-wise. On the first album, Music from Big Pink, Robbie wrote 'only' 4 songs out of 11, and especially Richard Manuel also contributed stuff. Unfortunately, Manuel had bad problems with the aforementioned substances and I believe also had some mental health issues, and he soon seemed to dry up creatively. And so it was largely up to Robertson to come up with original material for the group, and the others then helped with the arrangements.

Summa summarum, Robbie Robertson was a more natural and gifted songwriter (both lyrically and musically) than the others, worked harder and was the leader of the group. Thus I don't have problem# with him getting more money (in terms of royalties). We'll have to agree to disagree.

I agree we have agree to disagree

The Band was a great jam band and according to Danko and Manual many of there songs came out of their jams

 

[VMBM]

I agree we have agree to disagree

The Band was a great jam band and according to Danko and Manual many of there songs came out of their jams

The Band a "jam band"? Well, there's another thing we'll have to agree to disagree.

Both Danko and Manuel, not to mention Helm and Hudson, struggled to write own material without Robertson, both together and individually. That is a fact. So it is fairly easy for me to believe that the writing credits on the Band albums are at least mostly correct. Robbie might still have been a dick, but I don't really care.

 

[Winger98]

RIP

 

[Jumptheshark]

The Band a "jam band"? Well, there's another thing we'll have to agree to disagree.

Both Danko and Manuel, not to mention Helm and Hudson, struggled to write own material without Robertson, both together and individually. That is a fact. So it is fairly easy for me to believe that the writing credits on the Band albums are at least mostly correct. Robbie might still have been a dick, but I don't really care.

Not talking about on concerts. During the big pink era there was a doc made and it is more or less them just jamming trying to get different sounds and combination