My buddy went to a Kings game way back when and headed to the now defunct Harry O's in Manhattan Beach after the game. He said Allison was at the bar drinking by himself literally a half hour after the game ended. Wow. Dude couldn't wait to shower and get out of there.
Kings News: Rob Blake to replace Hextall as Assistant GM
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yankeeking
Registered User
not sure what the point is but after all the different teams , great and not so great players,dumb ***** and double dumbasses and after winning the cup lets let all the past BS go , I for one have stopped hating # 33 and will not hold a grudge against blake any longer, some times we forget this is their lively hoods and it only last a relatively short time.........someday I even hope to say #33's name without my blood pressure going thru the roof
taz346
Registered User
Ok,so up comes #33 hate again. I'd like to set a few people straight regarding Marty and that stick. Being a grandparent, I've been around a hell of a lot longer than most of you and the night of said stick incident was completely a different situation than has been spread around for years. In those days, illegal sticks were being used by many,many players. Marty had been a scoring threat, along with running interference for Gretz for a long time. Habs coach Jacques Demers wanted Marty out of that game in a big time way. Some years ago Pat LaFontaine and Luc were being interviewed prior to an all-star game and of course, that subject came up. Luc chuckled and said yeah, when that stick was called to attention by Demers, you could hear sticks breaking over on the Habs bench. (figure that out people)
It's also a fact that Demers had sent one of his people into the Kings locker room and checked out the sticks so, he knew in advance just what to do at the right time. End of Marty McSorley saga please.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Anyone who hates on McSorley just doesn't know ****. As if McSorley was at fault for the team being incapable of winning an OT game, which they had three attempts at. The Kings couldn't score on Patrick Roy and never gained a lead in any game after Game 2, and that was largely due to Roy's goaltending.
As for Allison. The guy was an ******* who only cared about himself. Nobody remembers him fondly anywhere because he quickly wore out his welcome wherever he played. He put up an insane amount of points in Boston. See any Bruins fans reminiscing about how great he was? Of course not. Craig Janney also put up a lot of points, as did Jimmy Carson and Rob Brown, but just like Allison, they're not remembered by fans because they just never did anything noteworthy aside from enjoying some individual success for a select few years.
And aside from select Kings fans who can't learn to let go of a 12 year old grudge, you can't find anyone saying anything negative about Blake. He's one of an elite few players who are part of the Triple Gold Club (Olympic Gold Medal, World Championship Gold Medal, and Stanley Cup), a Norris Trophy winner, a seven time All-Star, and as I mentioned earlier in this discussion, holds every Kings' record for defensemen. But I guess a contract negotiation turned sour is enough to erase all of that...
As for Allison. The guy was an ******* who only cared about himself. Nobody remembers him fondly anywhere because he quickly wore out his welcome wherever he played. He put up an insane amount of points in Boston. See any Bruins fans reminiscing about how great he was? Of course not. Craig Janney also put up a lot of points, as did Jimmy Carson and Rob Brown, but just like Allison, they're not remembered by fans because they just never did anything noteworthy aside from enjoying some individual success for a select few years.
And aside from select Kings fans who can't learn to let go of a 12 year old grudge, you can't find anyone saying anything negative about Blake. He's one of an elite few players who are part of the Triple Gold Club (Olympic Gold Medal, World Championship Gold Medal, and Stanley Cup), a Norris Trophy winner, a seven time All-Star, and as I mentioned earlier in this discussion, holds every Kings' record for defensemen. But I guess a contract negotiation turned sour is enough to erase all of that...
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taz346
Registered User
Oh my God, Blake and McSorely have been some fans whipping board for years. Isn't it time to give the whole mess a rest?
taz346
Registered User
taz346
Registered User
One funny thing about Patrick Roy. If you remember games he played in. Before the game, he'd skate out to the crease and talk to the crossbar. Also, during games he carried on a conversation with someone, only he knew who, bobbing his head up and down just talking away. He was a true character in goal.
taz346
Registered User
By the way some fans keep dwelling on Marty and Rob, I guess Stars fans should forever hate ambulance drivers. Years ago, cams used to follow along when a guy was carried off the ice. One night Modana got knocked out cold. Cams followed the stretcher carriers right out to the ambulance. Upon lifting the stretcher into said ambulance, plop - down went Modano onto the ground. They dropped him. lol; next day when asked about it, he had no idea it had happened, as he was out cold. hahaha, now that's the kind of stuff to remember. That's back when KTLA (5), with Stu Nahan used to cover games. Sometimes KHJ(9) too.
Yup, that's been said by so many people over the years, the truth of that still cracks me up ever time I hear it.
This, on the other hand has been debunked by both Gretzky and McNall. Gretzky said that whether the sticks had been checked or not shouldn't have made ANY difference because Marty shouldn't have been using an illegal stick PERIOD. Marty, however, has said that he had no other choice. You know why? Because that's all he had. That's right. Marty McSorley had no legal sticks to use in the 3rd period.
McNall actually denies the sticks were even checked. He did it right next to me while I was watching game 2 vs the Devils last season. Right after Marty had called him to chat.
I agree. Although there isn't a shred of doubt in my mind that the Kings would have won game 2 if there was no penalty, Hrudey has said that a few other players had illegal sticks that Demers could have called for a check on other guys too. Of course, none of them should have played the 3rd with those sticks...but they might have.
And he fell in the draft to #17 in 1993 because he was a coach's nightmare. And he was practically a throw-in in the Carey/Carter for Ranford/Oates/Tocchet deal in 1997 because the Caps had had enough of him.
12 years, eh? I'd call that "having commitment".
The Butcher
Mammoth Mooseknuckles Hockey
I like your posts Ziggy and I get your point except to call the whole thing merely a "contract negotiation that turned sour" I think is underselling the whole situation way short and slightly hurts your argument. We've discussed the many reasons for the Rob Blake hate and and I think many have understood the King's role in things also.
But it goes deeper than just a contract dispute.
taz346
Registered User
Yup, that's been said by so many people over the years, the truth of that still cracks me up ever time I hear it.
This, on the other hand has been debunked by both Gretzky and McNall. Gretzky said that whether the sticks had been checked or not shouldn't have made ANY difference because Marty shouldn't have been using an illegal stick PERIOD. Marty, however, has said that he had no other choice. You know why? Because that's all he had. That's right. Marty McSorley had no legal sticks to use in the 3rd period.
McNall actually denies the sticks were even checked. He did it right next to me while I was watching game 2 vs the Devils last season. Right after Marty had called him to chat.
I agree. Although there isn't a shred of doubt in my mind that the Kings would have won game 2 if there was no penalty, Hrudey has said that a few other players had illegal sticks that Demers could have called for a check on other guys too. Of course, none of them should have played the 3rd with those sticks...but they might have.
And he fell in the draft to #17 in 1993 because he was a coach's nightmare. And he was practically a throw-in in the Carey/Carter for Ranford/Oates/Tocchet deal in 1997 because the Caps had had enough of him.
12 years, eh? I'd call that "having commitment".
While Bruce McNall was responsible for bringing Gretz to the kings, having served time in prison, he wasn't exactly the most honest and forthright person.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
The thing that bothered me most about the whole stick incident is what Hrudey said about the locker room atmosphere after the loss. It sounded like they just completely broke down and didn't recover from that Game 2 loss and lost their composure.
And to illustrate how Patrick Roy got in their heads, take a look at these numbers from the series:
Robitaille, 3 goals
Gretzky, 2 goals
Kurri, 1 goal
Sandstrom, 0 goals
Granato, 1 goal
Donnelly, 1 goal
Millen, 0 goals
Carson, 0 goals
Taylor, 1 goal
Conacher, 1 goal
Rychel, 0 goals
Shuchuk, 0 goals
So the Kings 12 regularly used forwards combined for 10 goals in the 5 game series against the Habs in '93. That right there is the work of Patrick Roy playing at his best. The Kings had numerous scoring opportunities (namely Sandstrom) and just couldn't get the puck past Roy.
Blaming McSorley is just a lazy, tired old excuse. Making him the scapegoat is a misinformed and uneducated opinion. He was a big part of getting the Kings as far as they did in '93. And Marty's 2 goals during the Finals would have ranked him tied with Gretz for 2nd most on the team.
And to illustrate how Patrick Roy got in their heads, take a look at these numbers from the series:
Robitaille, 3 goals
Gretzky, 2 goals
Kurri, 1 goal
Sandstrom, 0 goals
Granato, 1 goal
Donnelly, 1 goal
Millen, 0 goals
Carson, 0 goals
Taylor, 1 goal
Conacher, 1 goal
Rychel, 0 goals
Shuchuk, 0 goals
So the Kings 12 regularly used forwards combined for 10 goals in the 5 game series against the Habs in '93. That right there is the work of Patrick Roy playing at his best. The Kings had numerous scoring opportunities (namely Sandstrom) and just couldn't get the puck past Roy.
Blaming McSorley is just a lazy, tired old excuse. Making him the scapegoat is a misinformed and uneducated opinion. He was a big part of getting the Kings as far as they did in '93. And Marty's 2 goals during the Finals would have ranked him tied with Gretz for 2nd most on the team.
Please don't put Jason Allison and Marty McSorley in the same sentence. Marty fought for the black and white for over 8 seasons. He protected Gretzky and all his team mates. Not even his own teammates speak poorly about him after the illegal stick or the Brashear incident. He was respected by everyone around the league. I met him once and he seemed like a nice guy, enforcers usually are. Marty learned to become a better player but never lost track of what got him into the league. He was fighting heavyweights that day he came into the league and fighting heavyweights the day he left the league.
King RAZZ
Los Cucarachas
I'll sometimes joke about McSorely...but that's as far as it goes...
The thing about Blake is that he made it personal when he threw the C in the garbage... That spoke volumes in what he truly feels about the Kings...
Reclamation Project
Cut It All Right In Two
- Jul 6, 2011
- 34,135
- 3,783
One thing that really annoyed me during the Kings' Cup run is the constant "stick redemption" talk. It was so irritating to hear that.
I never thought it said much about what he felt/feels about the Kings. I thought it said alot about his maturity and leadership.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
I think that was the worst mistake he made, and thankfully some sense was talked into him by Taylor and Andy Murray to keep the "C" on. But to play devil's advocate, let's put ourselves in a similar scenario. Say you've been in a marriage for 12 years, then your spouse approaches you to tell you that you have to give more in the relationship and if you don't, they're going to divorce you and there is zero room for compromise. That's how the negotiations were approached by AEG.
Now I agree that Blake did not handle it professionally, but I could also understand why he was taken aback by the Kings' approach when they presented the offer with a firm ultimatum if he did not accept the contract under their terms and their terms only. They were not interested in the least bit in negotiating. An even bigger joke is that they did eventually move from their ultimatum and kept increasing their offer as the season progressed, but the damage was already done by that point and Blake felt that he was not wanted by the Kings.
It's also sad to read how Taylor pretty much came off as just a puppet to Leiweke and AEG. He was more of the middle man doing damage control in trying to patch things up and calm things down to get Blake back to the negotiating table while Leiweke, Gilmore, and AEG dictated the negotiations. It was under their orders as to how much Taylor would be capped at to get Blake re-signed and they set their own deadline to determine when to move him had he not been signed.
I would also like to bring up how often the Kings back then would have significant players miss parts of camp due to them holding out. This was a common occurrence under AEG. Remember how Norstrom wasn't re-signed until the day before the start of the regular season? Aki Berg returned to Finland for a full season which may have actually stunted his development (not to mention the piss poor handling of him as a teenager, you could include Jokinen and countless others as well). Storr, Matt Johnson, Stumpel, Blake, etc. For some reason, contract negotiations were never easy during that period. I'd say it is more fair and sensible to find both parties equally at fault. You have to keep in mind that AEG didn't show any loyalty to players back then, and it's been well documented that it wasn't just their handling of Rob Blake that proves this to be true.
And that is why I'm thankful that Lombardi took the job here. Also keep in mind that before accepting the job, Lombardi was warned that they (AEG) wouldn't give him carte blanche to run the team as he saw fit. Thankfully Leiweke relented and gave Lombardi freedom to run the team as he envisioned it to be and not Leiweke's vision of how the team should be. Remember how often he talked about getting a star to play at Staples Center? His interest wasn't about building a successful team, it was only about dollars and cents. Come up with a stupid catchy slogan, spend money on marketing, and sell a pseudo five-year plan as if he's interested in building a winning culture here. That never came to fruition until Dean Lombardi stepped in.
taz346
Registered User
Amen to all of that.
If I want to spend my time hating on something from the past that had me furious for days, it was the night in Saint Louis when Geoff Cournall ran Jamie Storr and just how Fraser enjoyed handing out that penalty to Sean O'Donnell for sticking up for Storr. Now, that makes me mad to even think of it today.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
I find it funny that you pull this out of the post he made and ignored the fact Allison was a first class dick himself.
Was he actually playing? He was injured more than healthy here.
I don't hate McSorley. I loved watching him play, and by no means do I blame him for losing the series. That was a team effort.
That said, I do blame him for Game 2. It was common knowledge players used illegal sticks back then, but it was also common knowledge you put those sticks away before the 3rd period started. Why he had that banana stick on the bench with three minutes left to play was totally idiotic.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
I believe the ref for that game was Don "Fat Pig" Koharski.
And of course, the subsequent powerplay that led to a complete meltdown.
http://articles.latimes.com/1998/apr/28/sports/sp-43929
http://articles.latimes.com/1998/apr/29/sports/sp-44233
Axl Rhoadz
Binky distributor
- Apr 5, 2011
- 5,289
- 3,953
I wasn't pulling it out of that particular post....more like the several posts that people are arguing that Allison was a dick because he hurt Camm's feelings. Well I say who gives a rats ass about Mike C, because that guy was a royal turd as well.
taz346
Registered User
Thanks so much for the correction there Ziggy. Got Fraser mixed up with nite he did the measuring of Martys stick.
If I'm remembering right, even Courtnall's mother was upset with him over that hit.
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Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Yep, that was Fraser indeed. And to complete the hat trick for terrible officials throughout the 90s, there was also that classic moment where Larry Robinson flipped off Bill McCreary after he blew a call that should've led to a whistle as the Kings had a delayed penalty called on them. But after the Kings made contact with the puck, McCreary didn't blow the puck dead and the Stars scored. And Larry Robinson was ejected from the game.
http://articles.latimes.com/1998/mar/18/sports/sp-30249
http://articles.latimes.com/1998/mar/18/sports/sp-30221
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Ha, good memory, that actually did happen!
http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1998/C...ues-Sweep/id-eda76b6afc9d44cc13804bcbac3b15de
More links to read about the hit:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/magazine/archives/news/story?page=magazine-19980518-article19
Also found this article in which Courtnall admits that he did intend to bump Storr:
https://moundcitysports.com/courtnall-storr.html
