RIP Kobe Bryant

[MAHJ71]

Best damn witness account I’ve ever seen. Sometimes the right person is in the right place at the right time.

Agreed. These two videos were extremely informative and a lot better than 99% of the other coverage thats played..

 

[darko]

For my top 7 I'll take in no order:

Jordan
LeBron
Kareem
Wilt
Magic
Bird
Kobe

Where is Oscar Robertson? Olajuwon? Shaq? All 3 are better than Kobe. Jerry West too.

 

[FiveTacos]

I agree, but he also didn't win a playoff series until he had Gasol, Bynum, Odom, and later Artest.

It's hardly an indictment not to win in the playoffs with guys like Parker, Farmar, Brown, and Walton playing significant minutes. Without Kobe, that might very well have been the worst lineup in the league. And none of those guys you named, while good, are going to crack anyone's all-time list.

But the other posters are right, this isn't really the time/place for a debate on his specific ranking. There's always some ******* who has an axe to grind against some player or other. Hell, last year I heard Greg Papa talking about how overrated Magic was, how there were at least a half dozen better PGs than him, that he might not even be an All-star caliber player in today's game, blah blah blah.

So yeah, some people won't have Kobe in their top 8/10, so what? I don't know that ultimately it matters ... given his work ethic, he certainly maximized his own potential. That's all any of us can do in life. At any given time there are 30 or 40 guys in the league who are around 6'5" to 6'7" with athleticism, but hardly any of them can remotely touch what Kobe could do. That's because while they were out clubbing, he was at the gym.

 

[Terry Yake]

the fact that kobe got those 05-06 and 06-07 lakers teams into the playoffs is remarkable in itself. he was playing every night with the likes of smush parker, chris mihm, and kwame brown

and that 05/06 team was up 3-1 on the suns and on their way to winning the series before tim thomas happened

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Best damn witness account I’ve ever seen. Sometimes the right person is in the right place at the right time.

Thanks for sharing this. I agree that this guy was the right person to describe the events that took place.

 

[Voight]

I agree, but he also didn't win a playoff series until he had Gasol, Bynum, Odom, and later Artest.

No star has ever won a championship all by themself. Not LeBron, not Jordan. It usually takes several other very good players.

How was he going to win a playoff series with Smush Friggin Parker as a starting guard?

Russell played from 22 - 34. Here are his career playoff numbers:
16.2 points per game on 43% shooting. 25 rebounds per game

Chamberlain's playoff stats from the age of 22 - 34:
25 points per game on 52% shooting. 25 rebounds per game


And if memory serves correctly, some of those Boston teams had 5 - 6 Hall of Famers on them

Russell played with an average of I believe 6 or 7 hall of famers nearly every year of his career. I think he peaked at 8 or 9.

 

[frisco]

Friday a friend and I were trying to get it down to one and name our #1 favorite athlete. His was Ray Bourque. I had a few choices: Barrasso, Jagr, Perreault, Magic, Kurt Warner, Crosby, Clayton Kershaw. But I went with Kobe.

Lebron wore sneakers on Friday in honor of Kobe who he passed on the all-time scoring list against Philly. In sharpie on the shoes: "Mamba Forever". Indeed.

My Best-Carey

 

[Voight]

And the 2 is easily the weakest position in the history of the NBA.

Russell beat up on short white stiffs, but there are players who you don't even have listed like Barkley and Stockton who were better. Kobe had phenomenal talent, but was extremely inefficient for a superstar player.

HFB never disappoints.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

PER is terrible and does not measure efficiency. Shooting percentage is not terrible, and guys like Durant have been able to put up similar scoring totals while sitting a higher %.

I would never say efficiency metrics are the only thing to look at, as you need to account for how a player impacts and is impacted by his team. However, missing shots does not help you win, and if you went by pure ability, I wouldn't argue with top 5, but in terms of actual positive impact on a player's team, Kobe's mentality held him back.

If you're talking strictly about shooting efficiency and not overall PER, Kobe shot around 47% from the field during his prime years. His five worst years in FG% are his last three years in the league, and his first two. Other than the very beginning and tail end of his career, he was a 45%+ shooter, which is quite good considering how many touches he got, the defensive coverage he had to play through, and the often low percentage shots he took.

I know Kobe was a chucker and that reputation will always be a sticking point for some fans. But even as a chucker he was more efficient than someone like Iverson, McGrady, or James Harden. Wade was more efficient, but also averaged fewer points.

Ultimately I just don't feel like Kobe's FG% hurts his basketball legacy all that much. In terms of mentality, championships, longevity, and raw statistics, Kobe stands with the elite of the elite.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

the fact that kobe got those 05-06 and 06-07 lakers teams into the playoffs is remarkable in itself. he was playing every night with the likes of smush parker, chris mihm, and kwame brown

and that 05/06 team was up 3-1 on the suns and on their way to winning the series before tim thomas happened

They were also only up 3-1 because game 4 was rigged.

 

[la patineuse]

Best damn witness account I’ve ever seen. Sometimes the right person is in the right place at the right time.

Yes, the NTSB probably will be talking to him if they haven't already. He's wearing a TWA cap, so I would guess has knowledge/experience with aeronautics.

 

[MMC]

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

He very easily is. He's the second best 2 guard to ever play, behind only Jordan. Do you really need me to list off stats?

Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Russell, Chamberlain, Kobe is an easy top eight.

The final two spots you can make an argument Malone/Duncan/Dream/Shaq/Baylor/the Logo/Robertson/Dr J/Pettit.

I think that top 7 is undebateable, but the line comes for me right where you have Kobe. Me personally -- I'd take Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan over Kobe. Maybe Lucas and Robertson too. Maybe. So Kobe's more in that 10-15 range for me. But we're really splitting hairs here.

 

[Terry Yake]

They were also only up 3-1 because game 4 was rigged.

and how was it rigged?

 

[Voight]

They were also only up 3-1 because game 4 was rigged.

You've had some really bad takes & posts on this site before, but you are on a ROLL today.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

and how was it rigged?

Watch the last few minutes of the game and OT. It's not like Stern ever had games rigged for the Lakers or anything.

 

[Jussi]

AC Milan tribute bit ahead of their Italian Cup game was really nice.

Also standing applause at the 24th minute.

 

[FiveTacos]

I think that top 7 is undebateable, but the line comes for me right where you have Kobe. Me personally -- I'd take Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan over Kobe. Maybe Lucas and Robertson too. Maybe. So Kobe's more in that 10-15 range for me. But we're really splitting hairs here.

Too hard to compare bigs to non-bigs. For most of NBA history, having a star C was almost a requirement to contend, because you'd pretty much be impossible for most of the league to match up with on that basis alone. But for the contenders who both had star pivots, the difference in a series was more likely the non-bigs.

So the question for me is who's good enough to join Wilt/Kareem/Russell (for me it'd only be perhaps Hakeem once he developed his post game), and who's good enough to join MJ/Bird/Magic/West/Oscar? It's sort of like, you gotta at least be arguably as good as ONE of those guys in your category to be considered for that level of immortality.

To me, Kobe passed West among SGs, so he joined that club. Sure, some might disagree, but I'd venture that far far more agree with that statement, than there are who would pick someone like T-Mac or D-Wade over West, rank Barkley in the same neighborhood as Bird, or put a Stockton anywhere near Oscar or Magic's level.

But again, I think Kobe himself probably wouldn't care ... he seemed satisfied that he became the best HE could be, and basically played until his body gave out. His work ethic above all is why all those old-time greats respected him (Bird has called him his favorite player), and probably why a lot of the "my-brand-my-touches-my-lifestyle" divas of his own era found him annoying.

 

[Terry Yake]

Watch the last few minutes of the game and OT. It's not like Stern ever had games rigged for the Lakers or anything.

yeah i just watched it last night. the suns choked and kobe was kobe

great examples you provided me with

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

Too hard to compare bigs to non-bigs. For most of NBA history, having a star C was almost a requirement to contend, because you'd pretty much be impossible for most of the league to match up with on that basis alone. But for the contenders who both had star pivots, the difference in a series was more likely the non-bigs.

So the question for me is who's good enough to join Wilt/Kareem/Russell (for me it'd only be perhaps Hakeem once he developed his post game), and who's good enough to join MJ/Bird/Magic/West/Oscar? It's sort of like, you gotta at least be arguably as good as ONE of those guys in your category to be considered for that level of immortality.

To me, Kobe passed West among SGs, so he joined that club. Sure, some might disagree, but I'd venture that far far more agree with that statement, than there are who would pick someone like T-Mac or D-Wade over West, rank Barkley in the same neighborhood as Bird, or put a Stockton anywhere near Oscar or Magic's level.

But again, I think Kobe himself probably wouldn't care ... he seemed satisfied that he became the best HE could be, and basically played until his body gave out. His work ethic above all is why all those old-time greats respected him (Bird has called him his favorite player), and probably why a lot of the "my-brand-my-touches-my-lifestyle" divas of his own era found him annoying.

All fair points.

 

[InfernoDaLuz]

 

[Voight]

He very easily is. He's the second best 2 guard to ever play, behind only Jordan. Do you really need me to list off stats?

Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Russell, Chamberlain, Kobe is an easy top eight.

The final two spots you can make an argument Malone/Duncan/Dream/Shaq/Baylor/the Logo/Robertson/Dr J/Pettit.

Meh, I think Russell is barely top 10 but I understand that there are people in the world who have him top 8.

 

[Jussi]

 

[Hammettf2b]

And the 2 is easily the weakest position in the history of the NBA.

Russell beat up on short white stiffs, but there are players who you don't even have listed like Barkley and Stockton who were better. Kobe had phenomenal talent, but was extremely inefficient for a superstar player.

What in the world???

 

[Jussi]