Rick Vaive vs. Auston Matthews

[PistolPete]

One of the mist intriguing players to me.

Three straight 50 goal seasons, averaged 41 goals per 82 games for BOTH the RS and PO; career 16.9% shooting percentage on an average of 244 SOG per 82 games, yet who knows of his existence?

Stories go he was a jerk, not well liked, all about himself.

But why is he a persona non grata? Did people hate him? Because he played for a lousy team?

Could he have been a perennial 40 goal scorer on Gretzky's wing?

 

[tarheelhockey]

Good threads on him:

Thread 'Rick Vaive'

Apr 8, 2022

So with Auston Matthews officially having broken the Leafs single season franchise goals record I have become curious about him. Didn’t get to see him play so what are your memories of him on the ice and what was it that made him a great goal scorer?

• grentthealien
• Replies: 18
• Forum: The History of Hockey

Thread 'Rick Vaive'

Nov 26, 2016

A great player in his day ,50 goal scorer.

Why did his career flame out so soon? Injuries?

Any thoughts on the back end of Rick Vaive career?

• crobro
• Replies: 19
• Forum: The History of Hockey

Thread 'Comparing Vaive to Clark...'

Sep 25, 2022

Their numbers don't seem too far off. I didn't watch Vaive, but from what I've heard, he was tenacious and rugged like Clark. I'm sure Wendel was more of a fighter and more imposing, but otherwise, was there really that big a difference between these two players on the ice?

Of course, Clark is a folk hero in Toronto. To me Vaive seems to have become somewhat of a footnote, although he was mentioned at work by my co-workers recently.

• GlitchMarner
• Replies: 21
• Forum: The History of Hockey

Thread 'If Rick Vaive Played For A Better Team In His Prime'

Apr 29, 2008

When Rick Vaive had his streak of 50-goal seasons, they came for some AWFUL Leaf teams in the 1980s.

That got me wondering:

How would his numbers have looked at his prime years came somewhere else?

Example- Let's say he played in Winnipeg. With Hawerchuk, could Vaive have cracked 60-70 goals with a better team?

Feel free to come up with some possibilities of how Vaive would have fared had he played elsewhere in his better years.

• Al Bundy*
• Replies: 7
• Forum: The History of Hockey

 

[Fatass]

Matthews. RV was great but Matthews is a centre and (tbh) on another level as an overall player.

 

[fbuford]

Matthews. RV was great but Matthews is a centre and (tbh) on another level as an overall player.

3 goals in his last 20 playoff games

 

[wetcoast]

Seems like the title doesn't match the OP here.

Rick Vaive simply doesn't stack up and it's not even close.

what's next the Bill Derlago Mitch Marner thread?

 

[Skiiiiiiinerrr]

Oh this'll go over well

 

[GlitchMarner]

Matthews is way better.

Vaive was a 50 goal scorer in the highest-scoring era in League history, playing on terrible teams. He never led the NHL in goals or came close. Matthews has won goal scoring titles and a Hart Trophy.

Matthews has been rather disappointing in the playoffs, but that doesn't warrant a comparison to Rick Vaive.

There are other guys from Vaive's era who put up big numbers but aren't talked about often. Dennis Maruk had a 136 point season in 1982. Mike Rogers and Blaine Stoughton hit 100 points in the early 80s.

 

[Staniowski]

Matthews is 100 times better.

 

[Field of Dreams]

One of the mist intriguing players to me.

Three straight 50 goal seasons, averaged 41 goals per 82 games for BOTH the RS and PO; career 16.9% shooting percentage on an average of 244 SOG per 82 games, yet who knows of his existence?

Stories go he was a jerk, not well liked, all about himself.

But why is he a persona non grata? Did people hate him? Because he played for a lousy team?

Could he have been a perennial 40 goal scorer on Gretzky's wing?

I can tell you Rick Vaive is not a jerk. He's a great dude.

 

[Fatass]

Matthews is 100 times better.

Matthews is better but Vaive was a very good power forward who had 9 consecutive 30 goal seasons, over 1400 PIMs and was tough as hell.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Matthews is way better.

Vaive was a 50 goal scorer in the highest-scoring era in League history, playing on terrible teams. He never led the NHL in goals or came close. Matthews has won goal scoring titles and a Hart Trophy.

Matthews has been rather disappointing in the playoffs, but that doesn't warrant a comparison to Rick Vaive.

There are other guys from Vaive's era who put up big numbers but aren't talked about often. Dennis Maruk had a 136 point season in 1982. Mike Rogers and Blaine Stoughton hit 100 points in the early 80s.

Agreed. Besides, Vaive wasn't a great playoff performer either (Matthews scores more PPG in the playoffs than Vaive, despite playing in a lower-scoring era).

 

[WarriorofTime]

5th, 5th, 7th in goals best finishes for Vaive. 50 wasn't as tough a number to hit in those days.

 

[JackSlater]

Completely different class of players, in Matthews' favour. Matthews is drastically better.

I wouldn't call Vaive anonymous. He is still in a lot of Toronto alum related events and he still gets interviewed. Vaive seems fine in interviews, but he did have the reputation of being a jerk from his playing days and we'll always have the Shanahan story, whether it's true or not. As a player Vaive is a bit of an empty calorie player. Someone who looks way better on a bad team, and maybe likes being on a bad team where he could score a bunch in low stakes with little responsibility.

 

[Fatass]

5th, 5th, 7th in goals best finishes for Vaive. 50 wasn't as tough a number to hit in those days.

1400 PIMs, and hard to play against. Tough as hell too. Vaive was a very good power forward.

 

[Chootoi]

Maybe Shanny needs to beat the piss out of Matthews too.

 

[57special]

1400 PIMs, and hard to play against. Tough as hell too. Vaive was a very good power forward.

Agreed. His physical, combative style of play shortened his career. Almost nothing in common with Matthews.... you are better off comparing him to Sundin, Sittler, or Gilmour. They both had/have great shots, but even there, Vaive was known for his slapper on the rush just after he crossed the Blue line, while Matthews shoots from closer in, with a wrist/snap shot.

Very dark era for the Leafs. Vaive didn't have a lot of help.

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

Vaive because he didn't play on a stacked team, and more importantly, he had that dawg in him.

 

[tarheelhockey]

and we'll always have the Shanahan story, whether it's true or not.

I thought this quote was… something else:

“Fast forward four years later and Rick Vaive is waiting for a meaningless faceoff in Buffalo,” Shanahan said. “He’s now playing for the Sabres. He’s lined up next to some 18-year-old kid from New Jersey. When the puck dropped, I attacked Rick Vaive.
“It was a quiet, uneventful game. He couldn’t believe the rage I had, not only in attacking him, but it took two (linesmen) to restrain me afterwards and throw me in the penalty box.”

Somewhere in there it turns from a funny story to… I dunno, maybe Shanny needed to be on medication or something.

 

[Chainshot]

While Vaive played in a high scoring era, it was also particularly brutal to players who did their scoring around the net. There was so much more stick work, part of why guys like him and Tim Kerr had back/neck issues that degraded their game. By the end, Vaive was the most encased player I recall seeing - the neck roll, the extra visor, what seemed like over-sized shoulder and elbow pads.

He was tough, the trade with Tiger Williams going the other way was referred to as "making Toronto tougher" in the press conference at the time. He fought a lot at the outset of his career - hell, lead the WHA in PIMs his rookie year in Birmingham.

As for personality, he always seemed gracious off the ice. *shrug*

 

[57special]

Rick Tochett is maybe a good comparison for him. Vaive was also a good skater, at least early on.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Never heard of Vaive, but Vaive AINEC

 

[JackSlater]

I thought this quote was… something else:

“Fast forward four years later and Rick Vaive is waiting for a meaningless faceoff in Buffalo,” Shanahan said. “He’s now playing for the Sabres. He’s lined up next to some 18-year-old kid from New Jersey. When the puck dropped, I attacked Rick Vaive.
“It was a quiet, uneventful game. He couldn’t believe the rage I had, not only in attacking him, but it took two (linesmen) to restrain me afterwards and throw me in the penalty box.”

Somewhere in there it turns from a funny story to… I dunno, maybe Shanny needed to be on medication or something.

Shanahan liked to tell... potentially tall tales during his career. I'm not sure anyone has ever found evidence that this story happened. I choose to believe that it is true though, for the laughs.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Shanahan liked to tell... potentially tall tales during his career. I'm not sure anyone has ever found evidence that this story happened. I choose to believe that it is true though, for the laughs.

Yeah, checking over box scores I can’t see where any game fits that description. Shanahan and Vaive only played about a dozen games against each other so it’s pretty easy to verify.

What an odd thing to make up. Maybe it was an inside joke between the two of them or something.

 

[Fatass]

Yeah, checking over box scores I can’t see where any game fits that description. Shanahan and Vaive only played about a dozen games against each other so it’s pretty easy to verify.

What an odd thing to make up. Maybe it was an inside joke between the two of them or something.

Young guys coming into the league sometimes challenge the top dogs.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Young guys coming into the league sometimes challenge the top dogs.

Right, but there’s no record of Shanahan even taking a penalty against Vaive’s team during the timeframe that this would have happened.

And it’s not like it could have gone under the radar during a line brawl… he says it took multiple officials to cram him in the box, so he definitely would have registered a penalty.