Retrospectively Did The Sabers Give Up Too Early On Guys Or Were They Never Gonna Get it Done in Buffalo?

[NVious]

The Sabers had players who went on to success after the Sabers like Jack Eichel, Ryan O Rielly, Sam Reinhart, Evander Kane, Brandon Montour. Should they have held onto those players and tried more to build around them or is it just the case that they were able to work in successful systems where they weren't necessarily "THE guy?"

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[Bear of Bad News]

Sabres.

 

[MikeyMike01]

The Sabers had players who went on to success after the Sabers

The ‘after the Sabres’ being the critical part

 

[GeeoffBrown]

Some of these players did request a trade. For example, the Sabres would not let Eichel get the surgery he wanted and so he demanded a trade

You have to figure though, if you undid every move the Sabres made and did different ones, the Sabres would have to be in a better spot, right?

 

[HockeyVirus]

Hockey is largely cultural at this point. Teams are so close skill wise even last place teams are not THAT bad compared to middle of the pack teams.

Sabres issue was their culture of losing. I always remember this



Tanking for Eichel they traded every single player who was remotely winning them games. I remember that year they moved their goalie and the new goalie who came in got hot so they traded him too lol.

Fans cheering for them to lose. How do you mentally get over that as a professional? Not easily without strong leadership which the Sabres have lacked. Now they are at the point it is very hard to break that.

They should unironically hire Shanahan after he leaves the leafs

 

[StreetHawk]

ROR also asked out didn’t he? Tired of losing. He mentioned how the losing was getting to him. Reinhart , he had 1 year left before ufa. Didn’t want to commit to term with Buffalo. Would aim to hit ufa at 26. So, some moves they had to make. But a lot of it was due to constant losing. Created a terrible environment.

 

[DJN21]

ROR also asked out didn’t he? Tired of losing. He mentioned how the losing was getting to him. Reinhart , he had 1 year left before ufa. Didn’t want to commit to term with Buffalo. Would aim to hit ufa at 26. So, some moves they had to make. But a lot of it was due to constant losing. Created a terrible environment.

Why is Evander Kane in the op's post lol? I'd have an easier time arguing his life was better before he left buffalo....

Edit didn't mean to quote above poster

 

[Peasy]

Losing culture is real.

Look at the Sens. Theyre in the exact same type of pattern.

 

[StreetHawk]

Losing culture is real.

Look at the Sens. Theyre in the exact same type of pattern.

Yep. This was an important season for them. Tkachuk about to enter nmc protection in July. Needed to show the core that they could win in Ottawa. Haven’t made the playoffs in any of chabot’s time there and he’s in year 8 now.

Are going to need to know whether he’s all in still if they miss the PO. Otherwise his trade list is going to be super short come July.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I believe we have had this thread before

 

[Chainshot]

At least spell the name of the team right.

 

[WarriorofTime]

They tried to come out of the rebuild a bit too early after tearing the team down to the studs during 2014-15. They had the high picks of Ristolainen (8th), Reinhart (2nd) and Eichel (2nd) in consecutive drafts who were non-busts on the roster and doing ok but not a whole lot of young recent draft picks coming up with them, or ones that were on the roster like Girgensons, Ullmark and McCabe just weren't impact players especially at the time. Wheels fell off in 2017-18 because they were a bit scotchtaped together to begin with, especially at the blue line where they leaned on Ristolainen to be a superman when he isn't even that kind of guy in his prime, and I'm sure Phil Housley proved a terrible hire as he's never had an opportunity elsewhere, then O'Reilly wanted out, Eichel was injured and the surgery situation was botched, they never got a lot of significant value out of consecutive 8th overall picks in Nylander/Mittelstadt (even though they salvaged the Nylander bust by robbing the Blackhawks, but it's still a fairly low impact trade), and there they were rebuilding a rebuild.

In retrospect, a 13 year consecutive missed postseason streak isn't as crazy as it seems if you make a few key botches along the way. It's not hard to fathom the teams with long streaks reaching that if the team takes a big step back and the players that start creeping towards UFA years demand out to go play on more competitive teams. That then sets your timeline back even further because even successful draft picks take a while before they are key impact players at the NHL level.

 

[sabremike]

Some of these players did request a trade. For example, the Sabres would not let Eichel get the surgery he wanted and so he demanded a trade

You have to figure though, if you undid every move the Sabres made and did different ones, the Sabres would have to be in a better spot, right?

He demanded a trade before that, the panic buy of Taylor Hall and other moves in the disastrous 2021 season were a desperate attempt to get him to reconsider.

 

[biturbo19]

They're an example of the primary thing people overlook when they talk about these deliberate "tank out rebuilds". Once you dig that kind of hole, it's often tough to climb out of.

So yeah...they gave up on good players, but they did so, because they simply weren't working there, and probably never were going to "get it done". Desperation isn't a cure for losing.

So you end up "losing" good players for pennies on the dollar because they're not able to collectively pull a team out of that hole. Where each new acquisition comes in and has the whole weight of that losing culture foisted upon them, and most crumble under that weight. Especially young players who are just trying to find their footing at the NHL level in the first place.

 

[Lt Dan]

The Sabers had players who went on to success after the Sabers like Jack Eichel, Ryan O Rielly, Sam Reinhart, Evander Kane, Brandon Montour. Should they have held onto those players and tried more to build around them or is it just the case that they were able to work in successful systems where they weren't necessarily "THE guy?"

Yes

the total opposite of their printers

 

[Dirty Dog]

As a Sabres fan, it’s just not a very good organization. Haven’t developed prospects extremely well, and due to bad coaching/culture/systems don’t develop NHLers well either. It’s not surprising that players improve drastically after leaving the team.

 

[StreetHawk]

When you sell off everyone good. How do you convince good solid vets to play for you when they have options? You can’t unless it’s a massive overpay on the contract.

Kids alone won’t be able turn it around in their own. And it takes more than 1 guy to do it.

 

[DeltaSwede]

As a Sabres fan, it’s just not a very good organization. Haven’t developed prospects extremely well, and due to bad coaching/culture/systems don’t develop NHLers well either. It’s not surprising that players improve drastically after leaving the team.

From an outside perspective, this too is sadly what I've understood is the reality of the situation. I think we all tend to underestimate the impact of the organization behind the team on the ice.

They've had some bad luck in getting the "right" players at the right time through the draft as well. From a lack of success, they've pretty much been forced to make changes to the staff which in turn takes away any consistent effort moving forward.

It reminds me of Manchest United since 2013. You've got to have a plan in place and then execute on that plan as well. Can't keep switching directions and personnel every 2-3 years.

 

[cjm502]

As a Sabres fan, it’s just not a very good organization. Haven’t developed prospects extremely well, and due to bad coaching/culture/systems don’t develop NHLers well either. It’s not surprising that players improve drastically after leaving the team.

The Pegula family should stick to football and tennis. At this point it looks a lot like the NHL is a solid #3 for them.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Sabers

 

[Breakers]

Reinhart was good for them and didn’t ask for a trade

That’s tough to stomach

 

[SwordsgoneWild]

Playing for 2 of the worst coaches that I've ever had the displeasure of watching certainly didn't help either. Housley and Kruger were the 1-2 punch from hell. Botterill should be brought up on charges for those 2 hires .

Granted, Phil was a valued assistant coach who was a hot hire. It was well received at the time. Then he started coaching and it was soon apparent that he was in waaaaay over his head.

 

[Yatzhee]

Hockey is largely cultural at this point. Teams are so close skill wise even last place teams are not THAT bad compared to middle of the pack teams.

Sabres issue was their culture of losing. I always remember this



Tanking for Eichel they traded every single player who was remotely winning them games. I remember that year they moved their goalie and the new goalie who came in got hot so they traded him too lol.

Fans cheering for them to lose. How do you mentally get over that as a professional? Not easily without strong leadership which the Sabres have lacked. Now they are at the point it is very hard to break that.

They should unironically hire Shanahan after he leaves the leafs

It is culture, but that's only part of it. Ownership needs to be committed, not merely by spending money, but by bringing in the highest level of brain-trust, meaning GM, Coaching, advisors, every one in the organization.

The Sabres have had 90% of their GM's and coaching staff ad NHL or job rookies. They fail because owner Terry Pegula can't get out of his own way. I remember speaking with Lafontaine about a year after he was fired by Pegula at a fight cancer event. I asked him what he thought of the Sabres, he said that team won't go anywhere with Terry as the owner. Profetic.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Bad ownership is bad ownership

 

[Raistlin]

its what is acceptable. simple as that. Where to set the bar as acceptable preparation off ice, acceptable results on ice. Until you reach that bar, the leadership keeps everyone in the room accountable, and drives better result. The right leadership core is a huge part of the success of a team. Toews was that guy, Crosby was that guy, Hedman/Stamkos/McDonagh formed the core. MacKinnon was sort of that guy.