Retrospectively Did The Sabers Give Up Too Early On Guys Or Were They Never Gonna Get it Done in Buffalo?

dirtydanglez

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Oct 30, 2022
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I've never cared for the Buffalo/Ottawa comparison.
The main problem with Ottawa has been extremely cheap ownership who wouldn't give management the necessary resources to succeed, fostered a hostile relationship with players, and didn't hold incompetent coaches/front office people accountable for amateur hour stunts.
The main problem with Buffalo has been poor player evaluation. For the past decade, they've built their Top 6 and Top 4 based on draft position--not readiness or actual ability. And they always dish out premature contracts that screw the cap table.
arent the pegulas known for being cheap? i thought buffalo did heavy video scouting just because they didn't want to pay for the extras with in person scouting.
 
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Mattilaus

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arent the pegulas known for being cheap? i thought buffalo did heavy video scouting just because they didn't want to pay for the extras with in person scouting.
Yes.

If you want proof just look at the last two years where we were supposedly trying to make the playoffs. We are 28th in spending this year. Last year we were 29th with over 10m in cap space unused. If the owner wasn't cheap you'd think we'd like.....use the cap space in a year where we are supposed to be going for it.
 
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tucker3434

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It doesn’t matter until the team turns the corner. None of those guys individually would have done it. Until that point, the team is less than the sum of its parts. After, more. But they haven’t had that transcendent talent to drag them to the next step.
 

VaporTrail

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Mar 2, 2011
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It didn't matter when they got rid of them...they would not have enough been successful with the guys they let go....There's a losing culture in Buffalo that had to be changed first.
 

Dubi Doo

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Aug 27, 2008
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They were on far, far worse teams with terrible GMs.

Buffalo fans knew any chance of building a contender went out the window when Botts traded O'Reilly. Eichel then got pissy because...why wouldn't he? He was on trash teams that were poorly coached for his entire career. Reinhart they screwed the pooch on by not locking him up long-term. They were good players surrounded by bad mentors, mediocre teammates, and, worst of all, they had GMs who were ass at their jobs. Pegula also appears (or appeared) to be too involved.

That's what it takes to have the longest playoff drought in the league, so no, the Sabres are (and were) always going to be bad- to-average until they find good management.
 
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SeanMoneyHands

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The owner doesn't want to spend money on free agent signings. And they've been rebuilding since the 80's. Probably the worst ran franchise in the league.
 

Soundwave

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The owner doesn't want to spend money on free agent signings. And they've been rebuilding since the 80's. Probably the worst ran franchise in the league.

Eh that's a bit of a stretch. They were in a Cup Final in 1999 and in a Conference Finals in 2006 and 2007. They've been rebuilding like since like 2012 not the 1980s, that's a bit ridiculous. Are you gonna argue the Flames for example have done a lot more than the Sabres in that same time span in the last 30 years?
 

Dread Clawz

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Buffalo is the youngest team with the least experienced roster in the league.

It's rather trope-ish to say that, but they needed veterans to help them learn how to win in the league. The Jagr trade was one of the most important trades in Panthers' history. They were a loser franchise, with a losing mentality where veterans only went to coast. Jagr changed Barkov and Ekblad.

Huby too, who was traded for Tkachuk.
 
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Steddy33

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You could write a best seller about the Pegula ownership's failings. Clueless fan owners meddling in a team and blaming everyone else but themselves. There's problems at every level of the organization but it starts at the top. It always starts at the top
 
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kerrabria

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May 3, 2018
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arent the pegulas known for being cheap? i thought buffalo did heavy video scouting just because they didn't want to pay for the extras with in person scouting.
The only thing I’ve heard the Pegula’s (allegedly) being cheap about is spending to the cap. Half a dozen owners in the league have embarrassing, verified stories about unique cheapness.

The Pegulas instigated the biggest tank and tear down we’ve seen (cheap ownership avoids rebuilds). They basically always have multiple GMs/coaches on the payroll bc of how happy they are to fire people. Buffalo has doled out countless, 7-8 year contracts at above market value to their players. They have frequently try to make big trades for high paid, big name guys. They’ve bought people out. They don’t abuse LTIR to eat up cap, even when not competing for a playoff spot.

Moreover, I recall Buffalo circulating a letter in 2018(?) to season ticket holders saying they’d reduce prices as an apology for the on-ice product.

Buffalo fans have taken to blaming ownership for the team’s failure bc they refuse to admit that their core players just aren’t good. They point to their recent cap space as evidence of Pegula’s cheapness.

Much more obvious reasons for the $8m in cap space include:
- It has become impossible to get any decent UFAs to sign there
- They load the roster with their never ending pipeline of overhyped young guys who are on ELCs and bridge deals
- They always have a giant contract extension about to kick in or under negotiations, which complicates the ability to spend to the cap every season.

It’s also bogus to blame an unspent $8m as a huge difference maker. Look at how much dead cap the Wild have or how much the Panthers had in 2023.
 

bleedgreen

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Neither of those are true. Do you have quotes?

ROR wanted to compete and didnt like the losing culture and was headed down the depression route. Eichel similar but then the team didnt have his back health wise and we now know n hindsight he was right. They could have let him have his surgery and either come back rejuvenated or trade him for actual value instead of spare parts.
I’m not a Buffalo fan but I do follow the team mildly enough to pay attention to them - but I get there’s limitations there and it’s not really my place to stick to my guns on strong opinions. It’s not my team. I always felt like Eichel was unhappy being there long before the surgery issue. He seemed frustrated every year. He did kind of come off like a brat, though I get why his frustrations were real. I just struggle with people pointing to the surgery issue as where things went wrong with the guy? It always seemed like things were wrong with that guy on that team. He always seemed destined to be somewhere else.


Per the thread title I think he falls into “was never gonna get it done there”.
 

kerrabria

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You could write a best seller about the Pegula ownership's failings. Clueless fan owners meddling in a team and blaming everyone else but themselves. There's problems at every level of the organization but it starts at the top. It always starts at the top
Give us the table of contents.
 

kerrabria

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May 3, 2018
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I’m not a Buffalo fan but I do follow the team mildly enough to pay attention to them - but I get there’s limitations there and it’s not really my place to stick to my guns on strong opinions. It’s not my team. I always felt like Eichel was unhappy being there long before the surgery issue. He seemed frustrated every year. He did kind of come off like a brat, though I get why his frustrations were real. I just struggle with people pointing to the surgery issue as where things went wrong with the guy? It always seemed like things were wrong with that guy on that team. He always seemed destined to be somewhere else.


Per the thread title I think he falls into “was never gonna get it don’t there”.
Eichel was arrogant and pissy even before the draft. But honestly, looking back, it seemed more like an American teenager with a basketball player's attitude then him just being a d-bag. He (understandably) had a chip on his shoulder about being dubbed the consolation prize, and Buffalo didn't really hide their disappointment in their tank not working out. Remember how he was drafted?

"Buffalo selects Jack Eichel."

Eichel then had to deal with Byslma as a coach and a roster filled with lazy, underperforming vets. They threw him the wolves as a 1C, threw the captaincy at him too early, and gave him no support system. Botterril (who was a highly coveted GM hire at the time) actually tried to reform the lockerroom and give him support, but by then the relationship had already soured.
 

bleedgreen

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Eichel was arrogant and pissy even before the draft. But honestly, looking back, it seemed more like an American teenager with a basketball player's attitude then him just being a d-bag. He (understandably) had a chip on his shoulder about being dubbed the consolation prize, and Buffalo didn't really hide their disappointment in their tank not working out. Remember how he was drafted?

"Buffalo selects Jack Eichel."

Eichel then had to deal with Byslma as a coach and a roster filled with lazy, underperforming vets. They threw him the wolves as a 1C, threw the captaincy at him too early, and gave him no support system. Botterril (who was a highly coveted GM hire at the time) actually tried to reform the lockerroom and give him support, but by then the relationship had already soured.
Agreed on the first paragraph, the rest is what a Sabre fan would know. Just seemed like a bad fit from the get go and there were yearly updates on how it wasn’t going well with him. “Will he stay?“ and “Can they make him happy?” seemed like annual questions. I was glad to see him traded so they could move on from that. With TT’s emergence I hoped they were going in the right direction finally and I liked some of the moves over the summer - aside from scape goating Skinner. I’m also glad Skinner is gone because he was taking some unfair blame and now we see he wasn’t the issue behind their defensive woes - though he obviously doesn’t help that side of the game much. I thought they’d step forward this year.
 

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