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Pretty much this and I wonder if your comment got lost in the shuffle.

Everyone can trace back to Africa.

{Mod}..... you know that this thread isn't about human origins or Evolution which goes back millions of years. The basis of the thread is the general study of personal ancestry which rarely goes back further than about 200-300 years for most people. Good luck finding anyone who can trace their family's origin back to B.C....
 
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{Mod}..... you know that this thread isn't about human origins or Evolution which goes back millions of years. The basis of the thread is the general study of personal ancestry which rarely goes back further than about 200-300 years for most people. Good luck finding anyone who can trace their family's origin back to B.C....

It's actually science but sure just going back to our Euro roots does make every feel better I suppose, although my family goes back to Germany and before that France.

Still Pulppe made an excellent point.
 
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{Mod}..... you know that this thread isn't about human origins or Evolution which goes back millions of years. The basis of the thread is the general study of personal ancestry which rarely goes back further than about 200-300 years for most people. Good luck finding anyone who can trace their family's origin back to B.C....

It's actually science but sure just going back to our Euro roots does make every feel better I suppose, although my family goes back to Germany and before that France.

Still Pulppe made an excellent point.

Yes he did, and it was essentially tongue in cheek, just having fun with the topic so lets leave it at that.... Mike makes a great point, its about the immediate & modern ancestry of players upon which LBD premised the thread, those roots serving as the basis for ancestral team selections.
 
I'm of Gaelic ancestry, I'd love to see someone try and put a team together full of us, good luck!

You kiddin? Thats easy. The Gaels covered all of Ireland & Scotland, the Isle of Mann, small pockets throughout England. Then theres the Norse Gaels.... Talkin 5th Century at its height but sure enough, still spoken, culture lives on to this day. If we include the Celts, much of Continental Europe, well into the north.
 
I just got to thinking of that we ruled Norway 1814 to 1905. Does that mean we can claim decendants from people that left for North America during that time? As a matter of fact it's probably why some norwegians at all use -son and not -sen.
 
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I'm kind of shocked that none of you guys putting together Team Netherlands has yet mentioned Frank Nighbor of Pembroke, Ont., who was probably the greatest player in hockey history before the Morenz/Shore generation and was just inducted into this board's Top Centers project in 8th place overall, well ahead of Yzerman.

One of Nighbor's many nicknames was even "Dutch". He's almost certainly the most prominent hockey player in history to have been actually identified with his lowlands ancestry at the time he played.
 
I'm kind of shocked that none of you guys putting together Team Netherlands has yet mentioned Frank Nighbor of Pembroke, Ont., who was probably the greatest player in hockey history before the Morenz/Shore generation and was just inducted into this board's Top Centers project in 8th place overall, well ahead of Yzerman.

One of Nighbor's many nicknames was even "Dutch". He's almost certainly the most prominent hockey player in history to have been actually identified with his lowlands ancestry at the time he played.

^ "The Flying Dutchman" indeed.

Pat Veerbeek – Frank Nighbor – Trevor Linden
James van Riemsdyk – Steve Yzerman – Eric Staal
Ed Beers – Joe Nieuwendyk – Kris Versteeg
John Wensink – Jordan Staal – Mike van Ryn

Jay Bouwmeester – Jeff Beukeboom
Dan Hamhuis – Marc Staal
John van Boxmeer – Ed Kea

Doug Soetaert
 
Team Ukraine.

Mike Bossy – Wayne Gretzky – Johnny Bucyk
Eric Nesterenko – Dale Hawerchuk – Keith Tkachuk
Glenn Anderson – Bernie Federko – Dave Andreychuk
Bill Mosienko – Walt Tkaczuk – Vic Stasiuk
Wayne Babych

Richard Matvichuk – Dave Babych
Gerald Diduck – Darryl Sydor
Ken Daneyko – Bill Barilko

Terry Sawchuk
Turk Broda

Great on forward & goalie. Pretty so-so on defense though. I've exluded players who have played on the Russian national team like Tverdovsky, Zhitnik & Kovalchuk.
 
I know Toews is half french canadian but it's something with that name that look & sounds very dutch.
 
I know Toews is half french canadian but it's something with that name that look & sounds very dutch.

Not Dutch really...

I would guess if anything from around the Frankurt/Koln area. (Rheinland Pfalz or Nordrhein-Westfalen) I duno why... it just has that kind of ring to it.

Also... on Nighbor... I had a look as the name is not Dutch, and turns out he is German; both parents born in Germany, Julius Nighbor and Pauline Katchaw. His mother moved to Canada in 1868... nothing on when his father moved.

http://www.mundia.com/ca/Person/11080942/-7997973 this takes the census and immigration data and compiled it... all the dates for Frank fit perfectly, so it is him, and it has his tree.

Dutch is used for loads of Germans as a nickname in NA is it not? Like the Penn Dutch are all German as it is a bastardised form of 'Deutsch.'
 
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Team Ukraine.

Mike Bossy – Wayne Gretzky – Johnny Bucyk
Eric Nesterenko – Dale Hawerchuk – Keith Tkachuk
Glenn Anderson – Bernie Federko – Dave Andreychuk
Bill Mosienko – Walt Tkaczuk – Vic Stasiuk
Wayne Babych

Richard Matvichuk – Dave Babych
Gerald Diduck – Darryl Sydor
Ken Daneyko – Bill Barilko

Terry Sawchuk
Turk Broda

Great on forward & goalie. Pretty so-so on defense though. I've exluded players who have played on the Russian national team like Tverdovsky, Zhitnik & Kovalchuk.

Boston's Uke Line: Bronco Horvath, Johnny Bucyk and Vic Stasiuk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEZnQGjfsiY
 
Team Ukraine.

Mike Bossy – Wayne Gretzky – Johnny Bucyk
Eric Nesterenko – Dale Hawerchuk – Keith Tkachuk
Glenn Anderson – Bernie Federko – Dave Andreychuk
Bill Mosienko – Walt Tkaczuk – Vic Stasiuk
Wayne Babych

Richard Matvichuk – Dave Babych
Gerald Diduck – Darryl Sydor
Ken Daneyko – Bill Barilko

Terry Sawchuk
Turk Broda

Great on forward & goalie. Pretty so-so on defense though. I've exluded players who have played on the Russian national team like Tverdovsky, Zhitnik & Kovalchuk.

I'm not sure Barilko was Ukrainian, I think he was Belarusian. But you can add Curtis Leschyshyn to the defence.
 
I'm not sure Barilko was Ukrainian, I think he was Belarusian. But you can add Curtis Leschyshyn to the defence.

Great pick, but Barilko according to wiki is of Polish ancestry on both sides, Mother & Father who emigrated to Canada from an area called Pruzana, then part of Poland. However as you note the area is now part of Belarus so it isnt outside of the realms of possibilities that his parents were Belorusians though I doubt it. Area appears to have been originally settled by Poles and therefore I'll go with Team Poland for Battlin Bill Barilko.
 
Great pick, but Barilko according to wiki is of Polish ancestry on both sides, Mother & Father who emigrated to Canada from an area called Pruzana, then part of Poland. However as you note the area is now part of Belarus so it isnt outside of the realms of possibilities that his parents were Belorusians though I doubt it. Area appears to have been originally settled by Poles and therefore I'll go with Team Poland for Battlin Bill Barilko.

So it is something like Gretzky's situation on his paternal grandfather's side. Original surname was the Polish name Grecki. There were many Poles in what is now Belarus.

Anyway, other Ukie candidates: Eddie Shack, Walt Podubbny, Stan Smyl, Johnny Bower.
 
The difference between Dutch and German gets blurry when you go back a couple centuries. The Dutch part of Limburg was part of the German Confederation until 1866. The dialects in the Eastern Netherlands traditionally are mutually intelligible to their very closely related neighbouring dialects in Germany.

The division was pretty much just political rather than cultural or linguistic. Only with government-supported mass education and mass media and the official use of standardized languages on both sides of the border did the line between Germans and Dutch as two peoples clarify.

German for German is Deutsch, Dutch for German is Duits, Dutch for Middle Dutch dialects (time period 1200-1550) is Diets. In that time period neither Dutch nor German existed as standard languages but rather they were a continuum of dialects that had little to do with any modern territorial borders.

Hence a lot of names in NW Germany, both places and people, are very similar or even the same as in the Netherlands. There's a Bocholt in Germany and one in the Netherlands for example.
 
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The difference between Dutch and German gets blurry when you go back a couple centuries. The Dutch part of Limburg was part of the German Confederation until 1866. The dialects in the Eastern Netherlands traditionally are mutually intelligible to their very closely related neighbouring dialects in Germany.

The division was pretty much just political rather than cultural or linguistic. Only with government-supported mass education and mass media and the official use of standardized languages on both sides of the border did the line between Germans and Dutch as two peoples clarify.

German for German is Deutsch, Dutch for German is Duits, Dutch for Middle Dutch dialects (time period 1200-1550) is Diets. In that time period neither Dutch nor German existed as standard languages but rather they were a continuum of dialects that had little to do with any modern territorial borders.

Hence a lot of names in NW Germany, both places and people, are very similar or even the same as in the Netherlands. There's a Bocholt in Germany and one in the Netherlands for example.

It is semi true even to this day... some people I know from Nijmegen have very little trouble understanding their neighbours in Kleve, and the same the opposite way. Ofc both their ears are more attuned to the other language as well.

As for Limburgers... they are not really Dutch. They cannot even speak Dutch properly... ;) You know they aint Dutch when they live on hills!

Part of Nordrhein-Westfalia was the Netherlands back then as well. (Bentheim.)

It is true there are a lot of names that transcend the border... names like Kessel, Boll and Snijder can quite easily be (and are found) from and in both.

Ofc things like Dijks, Vermeer, Kromkamp, de Jong etc are a bit easier... but could easily have been 'German families' settled in the Netherlands before 1811 who were then given Dutch names!

Most Dutch only had family names since 1811 though under Napoleons degree... so it is a bit easier than most countries to pick out those that are very likely to originate in that area. Before then most who had surnames used the -sen system. So it is a bit easier to pick out who is 'Dutch' from names since 1811... as those in Dutch territory at that time will have registered 'Dutch' surnames due to the dictate and its rules; but as you say it is still muddy in that regard, and many who were Dutch/German was less defined.

Though you also generally know if the person was born in 'Germany' in the Rhineland as opposed to 'the Netherlands' throughout most of the 1700s as the Catholic areas of the Rhineland were pretty damn good/meticulous with records, recorded on date of birth etc... and those born there would more than likely have a 'Germanic' first name if not surname.

Both those things make it slightly easier to say if there is more chance the family was 'Dutch' or 'German' after the 1700s by elimination, and after 1811 when both recorded very well even 'easier'... though still not perfect.

Toews is likely an example... being a Mennonite his family could well have been 'Dutch' but would have possibly had to leave the 'Netherlands' (which as you say in the 1500-1800's included what is now Germany, and the other way round as well) in the 1500-1600's depending on the 'province' they were from.

All I can really say is his name is not Dutch after the early 1800's... and very much more looks like a German name. (even before the 1800s there were differences... albeit as you say not much in certain areas; it is also quite possible the family did not even have a name then!)

But that does not say where his family is 'really' from (though that could go on and does ofc for thousands of years!)... but I would say I imagine his family emigrated from Germany to North America and not from the Netherlands.

It is as you say all very muddy across most of european ancestry.

Lodewijk van Beethoven ;) for example... 'Dutch' heritage but German! (gets even messier when you consider his family and name is from modern day Belgium.)

Other examples are Alsatians, Southern Danes and Northern Germans, Silesians etc... I have a Polish Silesian friend who considers herself 100% Polish... but has a name that is far more 'Czech' in modern day terms, and a German friend with a name that is German... but was changed in the 1800's from a Polish family name!
 
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Same thing with Patrick Roy. My neighbor is related and traced it back to Ireland. Part of the family ended up in Montréal and part in the USA.

If your neighbor continued to dig further he would most likely come to the conclusion that he's actually from France. Surname ''Roy'' derives from the French word for king which is ''roi and it was a common surname among Normans who later went on to conquer large parts of the UK and Ireland.

On another note team Croatia wouldn't look too bad, at least not the starting 6:

Big M - Šakić - Little M

Vlašić - Šarić

Cattarinich (1st goalie in the history of the Canadiens)

Other people of Croatian stock are: Mark and Marty Pavelich (not related), Steve Reinprecht, Willie Mitchell, Dekanich, Drazenovic, Fistric, Bezina, Phil and Victor Oreskovich, Gazdić etc
 
On another note team Croatia wouldn't look too bad, at least not the starting 6:

Big M - Å akić - Little M

VlaÅ¡ić - Å arić

Cattarinich (1st goalie in the history of the Canadiens)

Other people of Croatian stock are: Mark and Marty Pavelich (not related), Steve Reinprecht, Willie Mitchell, Dekanich, Drazenovic, Fistric, Bezina, Phil and Victor Oreskovich, Gazdić etc

Looks good. How do you know your starting 6 are Croatian though? Couldn't they be Serbian or Bosnian?
 
I can't resist.

I was a Linesman, Chicago vs Mn. North Stars.
Eric Nesterenko played for Chicago and was Rob Lowes father in the movie Youngblood.
Patrick Swayzie was in Youngblood and The Outsiders.
Tom Cruise was in the Outsiders and A Few Good Men.
Kevin Bacon was in A Few Good Men.

Brilliance.

Since I was a co-worker with Lou Angotti at Olde Discount Stockbrokers in the mid-90s I suppose I could use the identical chain.
 
What about Phil Housley ?

You guys seem to know a lot about ancestry. My last name ending in Ley as well would make me think my ancestry is traced to the similar area. I would have thought he'd be on Team Ireland. Though, my mother has said she believes we go back to Prussia...
 
Looks good. How do you know your starting 6 are Croatian though? Couldn't they be Serbian or Bosnian?

Big M often speaks about his Croatian heritage and his surname is pretty common close to where I live, Joe's the same when it comes to talking about his heritage, both of his parents emigrated from Croatia to Canada, VlaÅ¡ić is a common surname which derives from a word Vlaj which is used in Croatia to name a group of people coming from the area of Dalmatinska Zagora. Å arić surname is mostly Croatian, with a small number of Serbian and Bosnian people of that surname, but in Cory Sarich's case I know for a fact he's 100% Croatian. Cattarinich or Katarinić is a Croatian surname.




http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/view/family_name/prezime-Mahovlić

http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/view/family_name/prezime-saric

http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/view/family_name/prezime-Šakić

http://imehrvatsko.net/namepages/view/family_name/prezime-Katarinić
 
The difference between Dutch and German gets blurry when you go back a couple centuries. The Dutch part of Limburg was part of the German Confederation until 1866. The dialects in the Eastern Netherlands traditionally are mutually intelligible to their very closely related neighbouring dialects in Germany.

The division was pretty much just political rather than cultural or linguistic. Only with government-supported mass education and mass media and the official use of standardized languages on both sides of the border did the line between Germans and Dutch as two peoples clarify.

German for German is Deutsch, Dutch for German is Duits, Dutch for Middle Dutch dialects (time period 1200-1550) is Diets. In that time period neither Dutch nor German existed as standard languages but rather they were a continuum of dialects that had little to do with any modern territorial borders.

Hence a lot of names in NW Germany, both places and people, are very similar or even the same as in the Netherlands. There's a Bocholt in Germany and one in the Netherlands for example.

Duit is the root word for Deutsch. It means folk/people.
 

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