Refusing to play for the team that drafted them

[Squats]

Yeah, Eichel was a bad example. He was just a poster child of an NCAA player who landed in a really shitty situation and I was lazy to think of another one.


So if the player has multiple proposals he can choose where does he get that glimpse of the NHL, can't he?

Well it's different than the Lindros situation. First of all, some reasons are understandable (Lindros' story is one of them) but if someone like Stutzle got drafted by the sens and did not want to report for any reason except Melnyk, like who are you? Make a name for yourself and then walk or ask for a trade (would't mind if Eichel asked for a trade if I was a Sabres fan).

I don't like collegiate players that decide not to sign with the team that drafted them for no reason other than ''don't like the team''. To me, that's an attitude issue

That's my POV

 

[Brodeur]

Yeah, Eichel was a bad example. He was just a poster child of an NCAA player who landed in a really shitty situation and I was lazy to think of another one.

Even for the Jimmy Vesey's of the world, they can set themselves back a year or two by going the free agent route.

Vesey (May 1993) went undrafted his first year and started college later, but comparing him to say Vincent Trocheck (July 1993 - CHL) :

Trocheck:
2012-13: OHL
2013-14: ELC1
2014-15: ELC2
2015-16: ELC3
2016-17: new contract (6 x 4.75)

Vesey:
2012-13: NCAA
2013-14: NCAA
2014-15: NCAA
2015-16: NCAA
2016-17: ELC1
2017-18: ELC2
2018-19: new contract (2 x 2.275)

-------------------

I was bitter about Mike Van Ryn which probably lingers to this day. Van Ryn had been a first round pick of the Devils in 1998 but opted to become a free agent in 2000 as the Devils were en route to a Cup.

But looking at it from his side, Lou was offering him an ELC at ~650K which was what Scott Gomez (picked right after Van Ryn) signed for. As a free agent, Van Ryn got about 1.1 million from St. Louis.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I don't like collegiate players that decide not to sign with the team that drafted them for no reason other than ''don't like the team''. To me, that's an attitude issue

The whole draft system does nothing for a player. It limits their choice just because some old rich guys agreed on it because the money-fueled system allows them to. So if some guys find a way around it without jeopardizing their careers - bully for them.

 

[Walrus26]

And do the NHL clubs be obligated to pay similar transfer fees to the European clubs like the EPL/La Liga clubs are paying to get the talents from other clubs/leagues. It is normal sports business of the 21st Century, unfortunately, American major sports leagues are living in the 19th Century if not the Middle Age.

As an ex-pat South Londoner who held a Crystal Palace season ticket for a fair few years and who's done his fair share of rainy weekday winter away games at "lower league" stadia, give me the North American socialist model of pro sports any day of the week.

A competition where you can pre-judge the league standings each season with 90%+ accuracy based on the amount of money their financial backers have is not a competition; it's a sports entertainment / betting product. The betting and the product are still there in the NHL, but at least there's a genuine attempt at a broad parity and a genuine competition over time.

 

[Aceboogie]

To be honest regarding the NCAA-NHL transfer thing, I'm actually surprised it doesn't happen more often. When you look at someone like Eichel, why would a person who has a free choice do that to himself.

If you get offered $925K and a chance to play pro hockey, there is heavy incentive to sign that ELC and leave school. Who knows where youll be in 3 years with injuries/plateau of play. If you are 2nd round pick, the chances you make the NHL arent overly great, and for 3rd round picks and on, making ELC money isnt a given.

So a player choosing to go the "loophole" route is really betting on themselves and taking some pretty big risks. Is the risk of getting injured or plateauing devleopment wise in your junior/senior season worth the upside of choosing your destination to play hockey? Its actually a pretty intriguing pay off. So that is why I do not dislike players who take that risk


With the 1st round pick or top-end guys, it s a bit different as they are more of a guarantee to make the NHL. So for them the upside is getting to RFA/UFA years faster. If you are Eichel (or the like), you would have to play 4 years in the NCAA, dominating that league and probably losing out on future $ in the millions, just to avoid playing for a certain team.

And money makes the world go round, Eichel (or McDavid) both signed long term for their teams. They could have easily just signed short term deals going only to UFA and gotten out of there

 

[BOS358]

Versus graduating and going the August 15th route (not sure if Eichel could have left after his junior year a la Wheeler/Schultz but he would have gotten a 3 year ELC if I'm counting on my fingers/toes correctly).

Just to provide some clarification: Wheeler was drafted after his junior year of high school, played his senior year in the USHL, and then went to Minnesota. Therefore, his draft+4 year was what would have been his final year at the U and he was able to become a free agent after 3 seasons with the Gophers. Eichel was drafted after his first (and only) year at BU, so he would have had to play all four seasons with the Terriers to take a shot at free agency.

 

[Aceboogie]

The whole draft system does nothing for a player. It limits their choice just because some old rich guys agreed on it because the money-fueled system allows them to. So if some guys find a way around it without jeopardizing their careers - bully for them.

Truth bomb

If you really want to see front offices cleaned out and actual improvements to franchises, you eliminate the draft (but still have the cap so one team cant just load up on top prospects). You want to sign a 1st OA pick to a 10Mil deal at age 18? sure go ahead, but you could be getting a Yakupov/Johnson/Patrick etc. Or teams are incentivized to build well run teams so they wont also have to overpay to attract prospects.

Noone bats an eye at the UFA system today, ignoring that decades ago the RFA system was way more restrictive. But all of a sudden getting rid of the draft to make it all a UFA system is drastic. Its werid to draw a line in the sand and say "Okay at age 27 it is now normal and ok for players to be able to chose where they play"

 

[Adam da bomb]

Truth bomb

If you really want to see front offices cleaned out and actual improvements to franchises, you eliminate the draft (but still have the cap so one team cant just load up on top prospects). You want to sign a 1st OA pick to a 10Mil deal at age 18? sure go ahead, but you could be getting a Yakupov/Johnson/Patrick etc. Or teams are incentivized to build well run teams so they wont also have to overpay to attract prospects.

Noone bats an eye at the UFA system today, ignoring that decades ago the RFA system was way more restrictive. But all of a sudden getting rid of the draft to make it all a UFA system is drastic. Its werid to draw a line in the sand and say "Okay at age 27 it is now normal and ok for players to be able to chose where they play"

It’s not just bout have a well run team. It’s the exciting cities that provide a great lifestyle gets every prospect. I’m very biased as few young players would choose wpg and we might as well not have a team in that case. Only a problem for wpg fans.

 

[ForsbergForever]

Truth bomb

If you really want to see front offices cleaned out and actual improvements to franchises, you eliminate the draft (but still have the cap so one team cant just load up on top prospects). You want to sign a 1st OA pick to a 10Mil deal at age 18? sure go ahead, but you could be getting a Yakupov/Johnson/Patrick etc. Or teams are incentivized to build well run teams so they wont also have to overpay to attract prospects.

Isn't this pretty much exactly how the European football system works? Teams sign 15-16 year olds and develop them through their academy teams until they're ready to join the big club? Personally I would love to see this applied to hockey. Imagine the massive scouting budgets that would be needed to discover players before the competition does? You'd also have teens like Power, Wright and Bedard contemplating which team to sign with instead of waiting for a lottery ball to settle on their future employer.

That said, it definitely wouldn't be great for league parity since the more attractive teams/cities would have their pick of the crop. I would think that at least some thought would go towards which team offered the best opportunity to develop and play a big role rather than just everyone wanting to play in Florida or California. Didn't Bobby Orr say he chose to sign with the Bruins even though they had been a terrible team for years at the time because they offered the best chance for him to crack the lineup?

 

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

There are many understandable instances of drafted guys not signing with their teams. Elway, Bo Jackson, even Mario Lemieux had valid cause to not sign -although Lemieux did anyway. I would even sympathize with a player not trusting his career in the hands of Eugene Melnyk. If you were to abolish the draft you might as well just abolish any idea of any kind of competitive sport. It would be a case of Eric Lindros on pretty much every given occasion. His reasoning of "small market" and "French" was f***ing weak and I have no respect for how he conducted himself. Now just imagine this happening every time.

Unless you live in a mega market, why the hell should you ever care? Sports in North America can ill afford the lack of parity suffered in international football/soccer. The draft is literally the only thing saving major league baseball from solely being a feeder system to a few, select giants. And yet people wonder why the sport is dying.

 

[Aceboogie]

It’s not just bout have a well run team. It’s the exciting cities that provide a great lifestyle gets every prospect. I’m very biased as few young players would choose wpg and we might as well not have a team in that case. Only a problem for wpg fans.

Again, do you have an issue with the current UFA system? Because that seems to work pretty well and would have the exact same "issues"

Edmonton managed to sign Just Schultz, the most prized college UFA likely ever. They did this in the worst season of the worst stretch of seasons, and pre-new arena. Oilers/Calgary/Winnipeg etc etc have managed to sign top UFAs, some for discounts even.

Isn't this pretty much exactly how the European football system works? Teams sign 15-16 year olds and develop them through their academy teams until they're ready to join the big club? Personally I would love to see this applied to hockey. Imagine the massive scouting budgets that would be needed to discover players before the competition does? You'd also have teens like Power, Wright and Bedard contemplating which team to sign with instead of waiting for a lottery ball to settle on their future employer.

That said, it definitely wouldn't be great for league parity since the more attractive teams/cities would have their pick of the crop. I would think that at least some thought would go towards which team offered the best opportunity to develop and play a big role rather than just everyone wanting to play in Florida or California. Didn't Bobby Orr say he chose to sign with the Bruins even though they had been a terrible team for years at the time because they offered the best chance for him to crack the lineup?

Under the cap, it really wouldn't mess too much with league parity. Sure some may chose to live in a better city, but that is present with the current UFA system anyway. And that effect is limited because money talks. But if you build a strong team, your team is just as attractive as a "big market" team.

I wouldn't follow the European model of teams having control of players under 18, as that again limits their opportunities. But I would have it where players become UFAs at age 18. And really the market will work itself out where most guys will be signed for ELC type money, some of the top picks will go for big $, but hey, at least every team has the ability to sign them. And if Tampa wants to sign Wright for 10mil, go ahead, but theyll have to offload some good players to make cap room

 

[Aceboogie]

There are many understandable instances of drafted guys not signing with their teams. Elway, Bo Jackson, even Mario Lemieux had valid cause to not sign -although Lemieux did anyway. I would even sympathize with a player not trusting his career in the hands of Eugene Melnyk. If you were to abolish the draft you might as well just abolish any idea of any kind of competitive sport. It would be a case of Eric Lindros on pretty much every given occasion. His reasoning of "small market" and "French" was f***ing weak and I have no respect for how he conducted himself. Now just imagine this happening every time.

Unless you live in a mega market, why the hell should you ever care? Sports in North America can ill afford the lack of parity suffered in international football/soccer. The draft is literally the only thing saving major league baseball from solely being a feeder system to a few, select giants. And yet people wonder why the sport is dying.

So this issue that will literally cause sports as we know it to implode suddenly stops when a player turns 27. It is only at that time specifically that they turn from being prima donnas flocking to New York like moths to a light and suddenly decide its ok to sign in Edmonton

I am sure back in the 80s when they had pretty much no UFA status, the same chicken little, sky is falling, argument was used to oppose the crazy idea of UFA status.

The cap is there for a reason and that is the reason the NHL will never be like Eurpeon soccer or MLB

On second thought, your argument makes no sense as European soccer has no draft lol. So it is not the draft "saving" them, it is the cap

 

[Aceboogie]

There are many understandable instances of drafted guys not signing with their teams. Elway, Bo Jackson, even Mario Lemieux had valid cause to not sign -although Lemieux did anyway. I would even sympathize with a player not trusting his career in the hands of Eugene Melnyk. If you were to abolish the draft you might as well just abolish any idea of any kind of competitive sport. It would be a case of Eric Lindros on pretty much every given occasion. His reasoning of "small market" and "French" was f***ing weak and I have no respect for how he conducted himself. Now just imagine this happening every time.

Unless you live in a mega market, why the hell should you ever care? Sports in North America can ill afford the lack of parity suffered in international football/soccer. The draft is literally the only thing saving major league baseball from solely being a feeder system to a few, select giants. And yet people wonder why the sport is dying.

So this issue that will literally cause sports as we know it to implode suddenly stops when a player turns 27?. It is only at that age specifically that they turn from being prima donnas flocking to New York like moths to a light and suddenly decide its ok to sign in Edmonton or a small market

I am sure back in the 80s when they had pretty much no UFA status, the same chicken little, sky is falling, argument was used to oppose the crazy idea of UFA status.

The cap is there for a reason and that is the reason the NHL will never be like European soccer or MLB

On second thought, your argument makes no sense as European soccer has no draft lol. So it is not the draft "saving" them, it is the cap

 

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

Again, do you have an issue with the current UFA system? Because that seems to work pretty well and would have the exact same "issues"

Edmonton managed to sign Just Schultz, the most prized college UFA likely ever. They did this in the worst season of the worst stretch of seasons, and pre-new arena. Oilers/Calgary/Winnipeg etc etc have managed to sign top UFAs, some for discounts even.



Under the cap, it really wouldn't mess too much with league parity. Sure some may chose to live in a better city, but that is present with the current UFA system anyway. And that effect is limited because money talks. But if you build a strong team, your team is just as attractive as a "big market" team.

I wouldn't follow the European model of teams having control of players under 18, as that again limits their opportunities. But I would have it where players become UFAs at age 18. And really the market will work itself out where most guys will be signed for ELC type money, some of the top picks will go for big $, but hey, at least every team has the ability to sign them. And if Tampa wants to sign Wright for 10mil, go ahead, but theyll have to offload some good players to make cap room

Let me speak as a Tampa fan that us getting the likes of Bedard and Wright would be absolute bull. I love the fact that we are such a successful franchise. These last many years have been the best ever for me as a sports fan. But they were made possible with great scouting and development. If it can be done with that, surely any team ought to be able to do the same. There was no disadvantages. For as much as I would love those players, we would and should only have them at the expense of this year plays out and the front office says "Time to move out everyone" and we luck out in the lottery drawing as a result of the fact we are no longer stacked with great players and our competitive advantage on the ice comes to an end

 

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

So this issue that will literally cause sports as we know it to implode suddenly stops when a player turns 27?. It is only at that age specifically that they turn from being prima donnas flocking to New York like moths to a light and suddenly decide its ok to sign in Edmonton or a small market

I am sure back in the 80s when they had pretty much no UFA status, the same chicken little, sky is falling, argument was used to oppose the crazy idea of UFA status.

The cap is there for a reason and that is the reason the NHL will never be like European soccer or MLB

On second thought, your argument makes no sense as European soccer has no draft lol. So it is not the draft "saving" them, it is the cap

The point I'm making is the only way you convince an 18 year old superstar to go to a small market is if he is drafted. That's what effectively happens in soccer and what would happen in every North American sport otherwise. UFA and all that has nothing to do with it. I'm fine with UFA's. You take a guy and have so many years to make it work. If you don't it's your own damn fault.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Hanifin-Fox
Valimaki-Andersson

Damn...

 

[jcs0218]

Let's use 2023 for example if Michkov or Connor Bedard decided not to play for the team that drafted them would that change your opinion of them? Let's say in April 2023 Bedard and Michkov said no to playing for certain teams would you be ok with that

I get the hypocrisy in that I'm a sens fan curious about another "Lindros" situation but a player would want to do what is natural for their career though.

Depends on their reasoning for not wanting to play for that team.

 

[LetsGoIslanders]

It's pretty much the shittiest thing a drafted player could do. If Adam Fox was so confident in his ability, why not tell Calgary he wouldn't report if drafted.

It spits in the face of every other drafted kid who tried to make an NHL roster.

 

[zcaptain]

I keep thinking that if Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner both refused to play for the Leafs, there would have been such an up roar, you could have heard it in Tokyo Japan, and the rules would have been changed then and there.

 

[Speyer]

If the devils still suck in two years and get first overall they could chose to not play there for religious reasons...

 

[Albatros]

It's pretty much the shittiest thing a drafted player could do. If Adam Fox was so confident in his ability, why not tell Calgary he wouldn't report if drafted.

It spits in the face of every other drafted kid who tried to make an NHL roster.

Fox was a 3rd rounder, no way of knowing which team might end up drafting him.

 

[Samsquanch]

I would get it if there's an ownership issue at play.

For example, what's happening in Arizona or Ottawa.

Ottawa is out of the woods now imo. Melnyk still there but hes spending money and out of sight and out of mind.

The Sens are a very attractive team to play for if your a young player thats looking to grow with a talented (and seemingly fun to be around) core of young NHLers. Brady Tkachuk is guy young players would want to be around, and as long as hes on board, Ottawa will be a fun team to be a part of.

Tkachuk, Chabot, White, Batherson, Norris, Brannstrom, Stuetzle, Formenton, Sanderson, Pinto, JBD. In 2 years time that is the backbone of the skaters on this team, and I cant imagine anyone being a big enough of a diva to pass it up (and absorb the negative media/fan karma and financial hit in the process).

 

[Curufinwe]

The whole draft system does nothing for a player. It limits their choice just because some old rich guys agreed on it because the money-fueled system allows them to. So if some guys find a way around it without jeopardizing their careers - bully for them.

Yup, I don't have a problem with it all. It's part of the CBA that everyone agreed to.

The Flyers lost Wyatt Kalynuk to Chicago, and that's OK.

 

[Mersss]

Isn't this pretty much exactly how the European football system works? Teams sign 15-16 year olds and develop them through their academy teams until they're ready to join the big club? Personally I would love to see this applied to hockey. Imagine the massive scouting budgets that would be needed to discover players before the competition does? You'd also have teens like Power, Wright and Bedard contemplating which team to sign with instead of waiting for a lottery ball to settle on their future employer.

That said, it definitely wouldn't be great for league parity since the more attractive teams/cities would have their pick of the crop. I would think that at least some thought would go towards which team offered the best opportunity to develop and play a big role rather than just everyone wanting to play in Florida or California. Didn't Bobby Orr say he chose to sign with the Bruins even though they had been a terrible team for years at the time because they offered the best chance for him to crack the lineup?

SO bottom line, New-york Florida and Cali would get all the best young players, and the rest of the teams can just go rot in hell, that's just stupid.

 

[FractionTwo]

There should be nothing against this

some teams absolutely deserve a slap on the wrist if a prospect refuses to play for their horrible org