Re-structuring the league

[Mein Yak]

I am sure us fans talk about this a lot on our own boards but I want to hear everyone’s opinion on this matter. Personally as a Ranger I currently hate how the league is structured. The west is by far a more competitive conference than the east year in and year out. Than when you look at divisions the Midwest division by far the toughest division in the CHL. In an article in Kitchener’s news paper our local reporter talked with our GM as well as Owen Sounds GM and they both said that by being in the Midwest you lose about 6-10 more games on average than you would if you where in another division. So you can my frustration with how the divisions are setup. If you are Ottawa you get play Gatineau twice which no other team gets to play for regular season points as well as this year you get 6 a games against KGN. I do get it OTT does have a great team but if you would swap them for any team in the Midwest I believe A) that they have 10-15 less points B) what ever team you swap them for they would be at the very least 55 points in the 43 games that OTT has played so far. 15 of the last 20 OHL champions have came form the western conference. So this is how I would want the league to be Re-structured. For playoffs do 1-16, no division champs just 1-16. Then since there are no division champs I propose that you play each team 3 times a year. This would work by having for say LDN has 2 home games against NIA this year and then the following season NIA has 2 home games while LDN has 1. You would shorten the season down to just 60 games which would take out majority of the 3 games in 3-4 days that the players play. I am aware that this does increase the travel for every team but this is nothing when compared to the QMJHL and the WHL. Not only would this format have the best teams competing for a league championship but as well as it makes the draft more fair. If you are a OTT fan I am sorry if I offended you. You’re team isn really good this year however teams in the east have and advantage over teams in the west. What are your opinions on the idea of re-structuring the league.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

OHL play is typically cyclical over the long-term. Some like London are more consistently successful, but teams make trades with draft picks 8 years into the future, and they scout very young players keeping in mind they won't draft them in that decade.

This will simply change the playing schedule of teams. The issue you seem to be pointing out is league parity. There are other solutions. Restructure league so teams can't trade away the farm while planning for 7-10 years into the future.

 

[Generalsupdates]

I am sure us fans talk about this a lot on our own boards but I want to hear everyone’s opinion on this matter. Personally as a Ranger I currently hate how the league is structured. The west is by far a more competitive conference than the east year in and year out. Than when you look at divisions the Midwest division by far the toughest division in the CHL. In an article in Kitchener’s news paper our local reporter talked with our GM as well as Owen Sounds GM and they both said that by being in the Midwest you lose about 6-10 more games on average than you would if you where in another division. So you can my frustration with how the divisions are setup. If you are Ottawa you get play Gatineau twice which no other team gets to play for regular season points as well as this year you get 6 a games against KGN. I do get it OTT does have a great team but if you would swap them for any team in the Midwest I believe A) that they have 10-15 less points B) what ever team you swap them for they would be at the very least 55 points in the 43 games that OTT has played so far. 15 of the last 20 OHL champions have came form the western conference. So this is how I would want the league to be Re-structured. For playoffs do 1-16, no division champs just 1-16. Then since there are no division champs I propose that you play each team 3 times a year. This would work by having for say LDN has 2 home games against NIA this year and then the following season NIA has 2 home games while LDN has 1. You would shorten the season down to just 60 games which would take out majority of the 3 games in 3-4 days that the players play. I am aware that this does increase the travel for every team but this is nothing when compared to the QMJHL and the WHL. Not only would this format have the best teams competing for a league championship but as well as it makes the draft more fair. If you are a OTT fan I am sorry if I offended you. You’re team isn really good this year however teams in the east have and advantage over teams in the west. What are your opinions on the idea of re-structuring the league.

It's cyclical. So this year maybe the midwest is the best but in 3 years it'll be the worst as several teams will be rebuilding and the Central (currently the worst) will have it's teams out of their rebuild and ready to win

Also the "Ottawa would be 10-15 points fewer" is such a ridiculous claim. They're 7-2 against the Midwest this year. That's an 87.5 points %, which is higher than their overall points % (83.7%). So statistically speaking, Ottawa would be doing better if they were in the midwest than if they were in the East division...

 

[AttackSound]

I am sure us fans talk about this a lot on our own boards but I want to hear everyone’s opinion on this matter. Personally as a Ranger I currently hate how the league is structured. The west is by far a more competitive conference than the east year in and year out. Than when you look at divisions the Midwest division by far the toughest division in the CHL. In an article in Kitchener’s news paper our local reporter talked with our GM as well as Owen Sounds GM and they both said that by being in the Midwest you lose about 6-10 more games on average than you would if you where in another division. So you can my frustration with how the divisions are setup. If you are Ottawa you get play Gatineau twice which no other team gets to play for regular season points as well as this year you get 6 a games against KGN. I do get it OTT does have a great team but if you would swap them for any team in the Midwest I believe A) that they have 10-15 less points B) what ever team you swap them for they would be at the very least 55 points in the 43 games that OTT has played so far. 15 of the last 20 OHL champions have came form the western conference. So this is how I would want the league to be Re-structured. For playoffs do 1-16, no division champs just 1-16. Then since there are no division champs I propose that you play each team 3 times a year. This would work by having for say LDN has 2 home games against NIA this year and then the following season NIA has 2 home games while LDN has 1. You would shorten the season down to just 60 games which would take out majority of the 3 games in 3-4 days that the players play. I am aware that this does increase the travel for every team but this is nothing when compared to the QMJHL and the WHL. Not only would this format have the best teams competing for a league championship but as well as it makes the draft more fair. If you are a OTT fan I am sorry if I offended you. You’re team isn really good this year however teams in the east have and advantage over teams in the west. What are your opinions on the idea of re-structuring the league.

M-Y myself and another poster has pondered this for decades now and we've have continuous discussion about how the league would be better if the league were to do option A or option B, and let me say this with no offense meant by this statement.

If the league was interested in changing its format/divisions etc. They would've when they brought the Hamilton Bulldogs into the league a few years ago it was the perfect time to restructure the divisions and conferences for a fair and even schedule for all.

Having said that the league decided to do nothing about it and because of it this is where we sit. Divisions are somewhat okay plus minus those in the Central and East divisions being crammed together geographically on the map.

The other point of a 1-16 however a good idea in theory is completely a pipedream that the league would allow from us fans perspectives. The only thing the league could do at this point to make the league an even playing field now is by doing 2-3 changes.

Redraw the conferences and eliminate the divisions entirely by putting teams schedules into where they're geographical positions are now on the map. For your point of games played you won't see any changes for the foreseeable future one way or the other unless the league chooses to expand into what has been talked about limited positions on the map.

I understand your views that certain teams get the short end of the stick most seasons but I know myself as a longtime Owen Sound Attack fan standpoint that Owen Sound is quite comfortable in the Midwest with the Rangers, Otters, Knights and Storm and unless they're are big league changes coming in the near future to teams in the league by ways of rapid expansion on both sides of the conferences what the league has now plus-minus what will see happens to Hamilton and the Bulldogs the league is more or less done moving or expanding into other markets.

Myself would love to see a number of changes happen in this league don't get me wrong but myself along with everyone else on this board would agree that discussing it and actually seeing it happen is more or less a pipedream for our own supporting team's POV and has very little to do with how the league would operate under that situation.

 

[Kingpin794]

I am sure us fans talk about this a lot on our own boards but I want to hear everyone’s opinion on this matter. Personally as a Ranger I currently hate how the league is structured. The west is by far a more competitive conference than the east year in and year out. Than when you look at divisions the Midwest division by far the toughest division in the CHL. In an article in Kitchener’s news paper our local reporter talked with our GM as well as Owen Sounds GM and they both said that by being in the Midwest you lose about 6-10 more games on average than you would if you where in another division. So you can my frustration with how the divisions are setup. If you are Ottawa you get play Gatineau twice which no other team gets to play for regular season points as well as this year you get 6 a games against KGN. I do get it OTT does have a great team but if you would swap them for any team in the Midwest I believe A) that they have 10-15 less points B) what ever team you swap them for they would be at the very least 55 points in the 43 games that OTT has played so far. 15 of the last 20 OHL champions have came form the western conference. So this is how I would want the league to be Re-structured. For playoffs do 1-16, no division champs just 1-16. Then since there are no division champs I propose that you play each team 3 times a year. This would work by having for say LDN has 2 home games against NIA this year and then the following season NIA has 2 home games while LDN has 1. You would shorten the season down to just 60 games which would take out majority of the 3 games in 3-4 days that the players play. I am aware that this does increase the travel for every team but this is nothing when compared to the QMJHL and the WHL. Not only would this format have the best teams competing for a league championship but as well as it makes the draft more fair. If you are a OTT fan I am sorry if I offended you. You’re team isn really good this year however teams in the east have and advantage over teams in the west. What are your opinions on the idea of re-structuring the league.

-The league doesn’t need to be “restructured”. What you suggested would merely be cosmetic in nature and doesn’t really fix why some team/divisions haven’t been good for a while.

-What’s it matter if some teams win more or less games based on the teams in their division? Even with the Midwest divisions “tougher” schedule leading to less points supposedly, teams from that division still win titles on the regular. Seems to balance out in the end then doesn’t it? By the time you get to the conference championship series, you can forget the records. You have 4 deserving teams left and it doesn’t matter that much that one team possibly could have had 15 more points theoretically if they played a different schedule. 9/10 the best team walks away with the trophy at the end of the season.

-The 1-16 seeding is a good idea but have the top four seeds be division winners. Would give some teams, like Sudbury this season, incentive to add instead of laying down and dying.

 

[HockeyPops]

Why did the NHL change to the divisional format in 2013-2014 and has stayed with it despite the controversy? It's all about the almighty $. They want to create fierce divisional rivalries to further impassion the fan bases and sell more seats.

I don't imagine the OHL has any appetite to change away from this.

 

[Mein Yak]

It's cyclical. So this year maybe the midwest is the best but in 3 years it'll be the worst as several teams will be rebuilding and the Central (currently the worst) will have it's teams out of their rebuild and ready to win

Also the "Ottawa would be 10-15 points fewer" is such a ridiculous claim. They're 7-2 against the Midwest this year. That's an 87.5 points %, which is higher than their overall points % (83.7%). So statistically speaking, Ottawa would be doing better if they were in the midwest than if they were in the East division...

I get the fact about how OTT how is a good team however I meant that claim as a hyperbole. Anyway if you are right and in 3 years the Midwest will be in a rebuild and the Central is the best division then I still believe that it should 1-16 and each team should play each other 3 times a year so it would narrow down to who is the best teams playing in the 2nd and 3rd round of the playoffs.

 

[NOA]

It's cyclical. So this year maybe the midwest is the best but in 3 years it'll be the worst as several teams will be rebuilding and the Central (currently the worst) will have it's teams out of their rebuild and ready to win

Also the "Ottawa would be 10-15 points fewer" is such a ridiculous claim. They're 7-2 against the Midwest this year. That's an 87.5 points %, which is higher than their overall points % (83.7%). So statistically speaking, Ottawa would be doing better if they were in the midwest than if they were in the East division...

The Midwest will never really be the “worst” so long as London and Kitchener are still in that division..

as for the Ottawa claim.. that is a ridiculous statement. . It’s ridiculous to assume they would have 10-15 less points but I do think they wouldn’t be as statistically “dominant” if they were in the Midwest. Which also means they would be in the West, subject to playing West teams more as well.
The sample size is way too weak though to make an argument. They are 7-2 but 4-0 vs OS/Erie. If they were in the Midwest they would have to play LDN/KIT at least 6 times a piece

 

[NOA]

I get the fact about how OTT how is a good team however I meant that claim as a hyperbole. Anyway if you are right and in 3 years the Midwest will be in a rebuild and the Central is the best division then I still believe that it should 1-16 and each team should play each other 3 times a year so it would narrow down to who is the best teams playing in the 2nd and 3rd round of the playoffs.

Look at Erie as one example, they are 13-5-3 vs the East this year. They look completely different when they play that competition too

 

[OMG67]

The League alignment is based on reduced travel. It is why there is an unbalanced schedule.

 

[OMG67]

Everyone really needs to keep in mind the goal of the OHL schedule is to reduce travel time. It is not their goal to increase competitive balance in schedule. If that were the goal, they would not have "rival games" which are games meant to reduce travel.

We need to, once and for all, simply get over the fact you will never have a balanced schedule for competition.

Just accept the fact changes to alignment don't make sense in the eyes of the OHL. They recognize it isn't perfect and no one has EVER made a recommendation that "fixes" all the problems. They have a schedule that mitigates as many negative travel impacts possible by adding the rival games.

Can this be the end of this discussion?

 

[From Up Top]

I don't think the league really needs a drastic change. If you eliminate divisions and change it to facing teams a total of three times each, it would increase travel and harm certain rivalries.

The biggest issue the league faces is Hamilton being in the East Division... Would make the most sense to put them in the Central or you could move them to the Midwest and take Owen Sound's spot.

East: OTT, KGN, PBO, OSH, MIS
Central: SUD, NB, BAR, OS, NIA
Midwest: LDN, KIT, GUE, ERI, HAM

 

[Otto]

I don't think the league really needs a drastic change. If you eliminate divisions and change it to facing teams a total of three times each, it would increase travel and harm certain rivalries.

The biggest issue the league faces is Hamilton being in the East Division... Would make the most sense to put them in the Central or you could move them to the Midwest and take Owen Sound's spot.

East: OTT, KGN, PBO, OSH, MIS
Central: SUD, NB, BAR, OS, NIA
Midwest: LDN, KIT, GUE, ERI, HAM

This has been beaten to death ... it's fine the way it is.. Here we have way more travel for Owen Sound . There is no easy way to get from Owen Sound to Sudbury

 

[From Up Top]

This has been beaten to death ... it's fine the way it is.. Here we have way more travel for Owen Sound . There is no easy way to get from Owen Sound to Sudbury

It's a shorter trip to Sudbury then Erie for the Attack by 35 minutes, and you don't have to cross the border.. But I get it they would travel a little more as they would loose closer rivals like London, Kitchener and Guelph.

Like I said in my post the change that makes the most sense is Hamilton to the Central and Mississauga to the East.

 

[Otto]

It's a shorter trip to Sudbury then Erie for the Attack by 35 minutes, and you don't have to cross the border.. But I get it they would travel a little more as they would loose closer rivals like London, Kitchener and Guelph.

Like I said in my post the change that makes the most sense is Hamilton to the Central and Mississauga to the East.

Owen Sound plays in Erie twice a season and they play there on consecutive nights in order to reduce travel. They currently only play the Soo once... again because of travel. So when they play the Soo they also play Sudbury & North Bay.

Under your proposal how many times would you have them in Sudbury, North Bay & Niagara?

At the beginning of the 16/17 season the Bulldogs said they were fine staying in the East. If it's not a problem for them then it shouldn't be a problem for anyone else.

 

[JMCx4]

... Can this be the end of this discussion?

I'll letcha know when it gets to Page 3.

 

[From Up Top]

Owen Sound plays in Erie twice a season and they play there on consecutive nights in order to reduce travel. They currently only play the Soo once... again because of travel. So when they play the Soo they also play Sudbury & North Bay.

Under your proposal how many times would you have them in Sudbury, North Bay & Niagara?

At the beginning of the 16/17 season the Bulldogs said they were fine staying in the East. If it's not a problem for them then it shouldn't be a problem for anyone else.

If they were to switch to the Central you could do 8 vs Barrie, 6 vs Niagara, 6 vs Sudbury, 6 vs North Bay, 6 vs Guelph, 18 against the rest of the Western Conference and 18 against the East Division.

It would cause a ripple effect of scheduling changes, and I don't think it would be worth doing.

Bottom line, I don't think the OHL needs to restructure right now. lol

 

[AttackSound]

I don't think the league really needs a drastic change. If you eliminate divisions and change it to facing teams a total of three times each, it would increase travel and harm certain rivalries.

The biggest issue the league faces is Hamilton being in the East Division... Would make the most sense to put them in the Central or you could move them to the Midwest and take Owen Sound's spot.

East: OTT, KGN, PBO, OSH, MIS
Central: SUD, NB, BAR, OS, NIA
Midwest: LDN, KIT, GUE, ERI, HAM

In theory it's possible but you'd have to move Guelph to the Central and Niagara to the Midwest for that to work and leave the rest oft the league where they are in the divisions.

E- OTT, KGN, PBO, OSH, MISS,

C- GUE, SUD, NB, BAR, OS,

MW- LDN, KIT, NIA, ERI, HAM,

W-FLNT, SAG, SAR, SSM, WSR,

That would be the only real change you could make beyond expansion.

 

[From Up Top]

In theory it's possible but you'd have to move Guelph to the Central and Niagara to the Midwest for that to work and leave the rest oft the league where they are in the divisions.

E- OTT, KGN, PBO, OSH, MISS,

C- GUE, SUD, NB, BAR, OS,

MW- LDN, KIT, NIA, ERI, HAM,

W-FLNT, SAG, SAR, SSM, WSR,

That would be the only real change you could make beyond expansion.

But then you are splitting Kitchener and Guelph which I don't think works, and the Midwest would have a significant travel advantage compared to the rest of the league.

If the league were to make a change the simpler the better.

 

[AttackSound]

But then you are splitting Kitchener and Guelph which I don't think works, and the Midwest would have a significant travel advantage compared to the rest of the league.

If the league were to make a change the simpler the better.

Unfortunately no matter which way you slice it the really only viable way to alter the divisions is through expansion which would mean 12 team conferences and divisions of 6 across the board meaning expansion into Michigan one more time and a team in Ohio states to balance the western conference out and a team in New York State and add Cornwall back to even the travel for everyone.

Keeping in mind that over the years the way this league has expanded has always been 2 or more cities at a time, any other way is just splitting hairs no matter which way you slice.

 

[OMG67]

I'll letcha know when it gets to Page 3.

Good grief....

 

[Otto]

If they were to switch to the Central you could do 8 vs Barrie, 6 vs Niagara, 6 vs Sudbury, 6 vs North Bay, 6 vs Guelph, 18 against the rest of the Western Conference and 18 against the East Division.

It would cause a ripple effect of scheduling changes, and I don't think it would be worth doing.

Bottom line, I don't think the OHL needs to restructure right now. lol

So instead of 1 trip up north you would have them do 6

And instead of 1 trip to Niagara (3 hours away) you would have them do 6 ... and still do a trip to Erie.... No way Owen Sound would approve this

 

[ohloutsider]

OHL realignment, OHL team in Chatham, OHL team moving back to Belleville, Re-structure the Memorial Cup, Playoff realignment, Get rid of the 3 Stars of the game, Changes needed to 3 on 3 overtime, Changes needed to the points awarded for a game - do we go to a 3 point game? Did I miss anything? Just wanted to make sure I touched on everything today. Carry on.

 

[Otto]

Just re-reading the original post ... so the suggestion is.. increase the amount of travel (increased costs) and decrease the number of game splayed (decreased revenue)

I can't see WHY the OHL Governors wouldn't go for this

 

[Truthking]

Why not let the teams pick their own schedules like college football?!
Solved that problem. You’re all welcome