RD William Villeneuve - Saint John Sea Dogs, QMJHL (2020, 122nd, TOR)

[Tkachuk Norris]

This thread reads like Rasmus Anderson’s thread. Guy leads his league in defense scoring as a draft eligible player but can’t skate.

I’d take a flier in the second, it worked before. Skating is the most fixable skill. Fits the Flames draft criteria as they tend to favour IQ and scoring over skating.

 

[TopC0rner]

This thread reads like Rasmus Anderson’s thread. Guy leads his league in defense scoring as a draft eligible player but can’t skate.

I’d take a flier in the second, it worked before. Skating is the most fixable skill. Fits the Flames draft criteria as they tend to favour IQ and scoring over skating.

His skating isn't that bad. He does get caught up behind the play after pinching regularly. In his zone, he will often be out of position or take the wrong decisions in coverage. When in the offensive zone, he's not the best at hitting the net with his shot, will often hit shinpads. As for passing, he's adequate but not overly creative.

 

[le_sean]

His skating is very, very bad. And while we’ve seen players fix their skating over the years, it’s still difficult to do and there’s no guarantee he’ll make it work at the NHL level. All comes down to whether or not teams believe that it can be fixed.

Don’t exaggerate. His skating stride is really awkward but don’t make it seem like he moves like Derian Hatcher.

 

[Bjindaho]

His skating is very, very bad. And while we’ve seen players fix their skating over the years, it’s still difficult to do and there’s no guarantee he’ll make it work at the NHL level. All comes down to whether or not teams believe that it can be fixed.

Villeneuve is a good skater. Teams just don't like his technique.

 

[Bjindaho]

He is complaining publicly that his ranking is too low on lists. He thinks he will be a steal.

« Je me vois comme un vol au repêchage »

Some scouts chime in, in that article, here's the one I agree with the most from my viewings:

"Oui, je comprends. Quand tu le regardes jouer, avec ses outils, on dirait que ses stats ne cadrent pas avec ce que tu vois. Il n’est pas fort physiquement, il n’a pas le gros tir de la pointe ni les mains pour déjouer des adversaires. Défensivement, c’est un joueur, et je suis généreux, moyen. Tu regardes ses chiffres et il a l’air d’un choix de deuxième ronde. Mais, si tu vas le voir jouer souvent, on dirait que ce n’est pas ça que tu vois"

Here's a quick translation: When you see him play, with his tools, his stats don't seem to match. He's not strong, he doesn't have a powerful shot and has average stickhandling. On the defensive end, he is average if you're being generous. Looking at his numbers, he looks like a 2nd rounder. However, when you see him play often, you just don't see it.

If that were my scout, I would fire them on the spot.

1) He has room to grow in his frame and plays a game not predicated on strength.

2) There is nothing wrong with his shot. He has great shot selection and a great wrist shot. His slapper is a work in progress.

3) His stickhandling isn't average. He's a very good stick handler (just not Poirier level, who is arguably the best stick handler in the draft)

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

His skating isn't that bad. He does get caught up behind the play after pinching regularly. In his zone, he will often be out of position or take the wrong decisions in coverage. When in the offensive zone, he's not the best at hitting the net with his shot, will often hit shinpads. As for passing, he's adequate but not overly creative.

fair enough. Thanks for the info.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He is complaining publicly that his ranking is too low on lists. He thinks he will be a steal.

« Je me vois comme un vol au repêchage »

Some scouts chime in, in that article, here's the one I agree with the most from my viewings:

"Oui, je comprends. Quand tu le regardes jouer, avec ses outils, on dirait que ses stats ne cadrent pas avec ce que tu vois. Il n’est pas fort physiquement, il n’a pas le gros tir de la pointe ni les mains pour déjouer des adversaires. Défensivement, c’est un joueur, et je suis généreux, moyen. Tu regardes ses chiffres et il a l’air d’un choix de deuxième ronde. Mais, si tu vas le voir jouer souvent, on dirait que ce n’est pas ça que tu vois"

Here's a quick translation: When you see him play, with his tools, his stats don't seem to match. He's not strong, he doesn't have a powerful shot and has average stickhandling. On the defensive end, he is average if you're being generous. Looking at his numbers, he looks like a 2nd rounder. However, when you see him play often, you just don't see it.

Where is he complaining? Is it in the link? Sorry, I don't speak french.

 

[TopC0rner]

Where is he complaining? Is it in the link? Sorry, I don't speak french.

Yes, it's in the interview in French which some portions were included in the linked article. Basically, he thinks it's unfair that he's not ranked higher on lists because of his production. He thinks he'll be a steal at the draft.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

Yes, it's in the interview in French which some portions were included in the linked article. Basically, he thinks it's unfair that he's not ranked higher on lists because of his production. He thinks he'll be a steal at the draft.

He's not complaining, he's saying the team that drafts him will get a steal. What else should he say? "The team that drafts me will be disappointed?"

 

[TopC0rner]

He's not complaining, he's saying the team that drafts him will get a steal. What else should he say? "The team that drafts me will be disappointed?"

He did say in the interview that he should be higher on rankings, that he doesn't deserve to be that low, etc. It's also been compared to Nathan Legare complaining last year about his draft position on lists (Nul doute, il confirme qu’il se sent comme Nathan Légaré qui avait décrié son classement l’an dernier.). I heard it on the radio but found an article where they "printed" some parts as back-up.

I don't make much of it, he's competitive and he thinks he should be ranked higher, like probably at least 50% of the other prospects available. However, I always find it amusing when a prospect goes to the media about it. Use it as motivation and work hard, you'll get a chance at the NHL that way.

Mostly, I found the scouts reactions amusing. Here are the complete quotes (where I put more effort in the translation):

"I don't understand why he's so under the radar. I think it's because he's not flashy, not spectacular. He does everything well. He needs to get stronger and he knows it. He's not the best skater, lacks explosion, but I think he's a good fourth-rounder. He's a nice project, he has potential" - Western Conference Scout

"When you watch him play, with his tools, it's like his stats don't fit with what you see. He's not physically strong, he doesn't have a big shot from the point or hands that let him stickhandle around opposing players. Defensively, he's a player that, being generous, is average. You look at his numbers and you think he's a second-rounder. But, if you go see him play often, you just don't see it. To his credit, he's extremely confident. He makes mistakes but he doesn't give up. But when you try to project him in the NHL, it's hard to see how he'll transpose." - Another scout (no precision on the conference, probably Eastern) who understood better why Legare was complaining about his ranking last year.

"It's clear that his numbers are good, but his ranking is more of a projection. Something that puts him back is that we don't see him as an elite skater. That being said, he's not completely developed. The other thing is that his play from game to game isn't constant enough to put him higher on the list" - Dan Marr

 

[Artorius Horus T]

For me, Poirier is overrated and Villeneuve is underrated.
Villeneuve > Poirirer, although Poirirer will be drafted higher.

 

[Number 57]

Villeneuve has come out a couple of times in the media or on Twitter saying stuff like that. This guy has a ton of confidence in his abilities. He has swagger. I think, that should come in handy during his career

 

[pgfan66]

Don’t exaggerate. His skating stride is really awkward but don’t make it seem like he moves like Derian Hatcher.

Villeneuve is a good skater. Teams just don't like his technique.

An "awkward stride" is a bit too simplistic. What's awkward about it? How much is it impacting his current game and can it be fixed? These are questions scouts need to answer.

Have a look at the video below.



There are a few glaring issues here:
1. The moment his feet touch the ice, his toes are already pointing outward instead of forward, and he immediately wants to push himself forward instead of gliding.
2. Instead of fully extending his legs to push off, he "heel-kicks", costing stride power.
3. Because of that kicking motion, his stride recovery isn't ideal. He needs to move his feet from up in the air back down to the ice instead of staying low and maximizing efficiency.

Fixing these may not be as easy as it sounds. Keeping your foot straight when it touches the ice? Okay. But the rest come down to ankle and hip flexion. These can be trained to a certain extent, but not everyone can get the same level of flexion. The question is: can Villeneuve improve in these areas? And I'm not sure if he can.

Why does this matter? Because getting by at the junior level does not automatically mean you can get by at the NHL level. Only a tiny fraction of major junior players make it to the NHL, so in the Q you're mostly playing against average and below average skaters. In today's NHL, on the other hand, 90% of players are above-average skaters. Villeneuve's weaknesses, as they stand today, are too big to ignore.

There's no way I'm picking this player in the first two rounds.

 

[JaredCowen4Norris]

An "awkward stride" is a bit too simplistic. What's awkward about it? How much is it impacting his current game and can it be fixed? These are questions scouts need to answer.

Have a look at the video below.



There are a few glaring issues here:
1. The moment his feet touch the ice, his toes are already pointing outward instead of forward, and he immediately wants to push himself forward instead of gliding.
2. Instead of fully extending his legs to push off, he "heel-kicks", costing stride power.
3. Because of that kicking motion, his stride recovery isn't ideal. He needs to move his feet from up in the air back down to the ice instead of staying low and maximizing efficiency.

Fixing these may not be as easy as it sounds. Keeping your foot straight when it touches the ice? Okay. But the rest come down to ankle and hip flexion. These can be trained to a certain extent, but not everyone can get the same level of flexion. The question is: can Villeneuve improve in these areas? And I'm not sure if he can.

Why does this matter? Because getting by at the junior level does not automatically mean you can get by at the NHL level. Only a tiny fraction of major junior players make it to the NHL, so in the Q you're mostly playing against average and below average skaters. In today's NHL, on the other hand, 90% of players are above-average skaters. Villeneuve's weaknesses, as they stand today, are too big to ignore.

There's no way I'm picking this player in the first two rounds.

I feel like context should matter in this situation. It looks like he's playing on the penalty kill, how long was he out there for? His skating mechanics are ugly no doubt but it doesn't seem fair to assess his skating ability based on a clip where he could have been gassed.

 

[pgfan66]

I feel like context should matter in this situation. It looks like he's playing on the penalty kill, how long was he out there for? His skating mechanics are ugly no doubt but it doesn't seem fair to assess his skating ability based on a clip where he could have been gassed.

Show me a clip that proves me wrong. I’ve seen multiple games of his and he’s just not a good skater.

 

[JaredCowen4Norris]

Show me a clip that proves me wrong. I’ve seen multiple games of his and he’s just not a good skater.

I'm not saying he's a good skater I just don't see him as a Douglas Murray level bad skater. He can get up to a respectable speed he just struggles to get there quickly. He has flashes of decent edge work but doesn't use them nearly enough. Any team drafting him is taking a risk on his skating never improving but I think he could become an effective complimentary RD. Never going to drive play but he has enough hockey sense to support well. Don't see why that wouldn't be worth a second round pick especially in a draft with a lack of top tier RD prospects available outside Drysdale.

 

[Number 57]

When Villeneuve picks up the interception he's at a complete stop and his teammate #29 is applying the breaks and following him up the ice. Also the #8 in red is also stopping and trying to catch up. So all 3 are basically at a stand still and accelerating at the same time. Yet Villeneuve makes it to the opposing blue line first despite having to actually carry the puck and slowing down on entry. So not too bad I guess

Just playing devil's advocate here. Sure he doesnt have the best stride but sometimes that dont really matter. First, because it can be fixed. Second, because a lot of guys can still be effective despite that.

 

[Bjindaho]

Villeneuve has good speed for this level but poor technique limits the potential for growth.

 

[pgfan66]

When Villeneuve picks up the interception he's at a complete stop and his teammate #29 is applying the breaks and following him up the ice. Also the #8 in red is also stopping and trying to catch up. So all 3 are basically at a stand still and accelerating at the same time. Yet Villeneuve makes it to the opposing blue line first despite having to actually carry the puck and slowing down on entry. So not too bad I guess

Just playing devil's advocate here. Sure he doesnt have the best stride but sometimes that dont really matter. First, because it can be fixed. Second, because a lot of guys can still be effective despite that.

The two players you're comparing him to are 21-year-olds who were never and will never be NHL prospects. Which leads me back to my earlier point: Getting by at the junior level does not automatically mean you can get by at the NHL level. In the Q you're mostly playing against average and below average skaters.

It's all about projecting his skills to the NHL level and I do not see him there. Not next year, not in three years, not in five or seven years.

 

[pgfan66]

 

[TopC0rner]

Too bad it's behind a paywall.

 

[pgfan66]

Too bad it's behind a paywall.

The video is on Twitter.

 

[TopC0rner]

The video is on Twitter.

Sorry, I couldn't see the video initially and the link got me to a paywall.

Now that I've seen the video, the explanations match what I saw in my own viewings.

 

[MMC]

Welcome to Toronto!

 

[GermanSpitfire]

AMAZING selection by Toronto