RD Timothy Liljegren - Rogle BK, SHL (2017, 17th, TOR) II

[Future]

Makar in the SHL and Liljegren in the AJHL. Who gets picked first?

 

[Randy Randerson]

Makar in the SHL and Liljegren in the AJHL. Who gets picked first?

Liljegren's fall was really based on him not having a good draft year, if he had the year that was expected of him and Patrick/Hischier/Heiskainen had the same years that they did, it's very possible that Liljegren would have gone 1st

I don't think you can really project across leagues like that though, like it's entirely possible that Makar would have killed it in major junior or done very well for his age in a European pro league, or that Liljegren would have been worse than Makar in the AJHL

All we can do now is wait to see if Liljegren is the prospect that he showed last year, or the prospect that he was expected to be heading into the year

 

[LeafChief]

Liljegren couldn't crack my men's league team.

 

[Cor]

So Liljegren goes from having noted great hockey sense and then now suddenly has bad hockey sense because he had a mediocre couple of months.

That's not how it works I'm afraid. When has that ever happened? A player going from high IQ to low IQ in a few weeks?

Sometimes people just gotta analyze things from a logical perspective.

It's largely just people who have never watched him talking out of their ass.

It's a clear case of a player being affected by uncontrollable circumstances, and then scouts over analyzing and looking at negatives rather than positives, which happens with most top picks.

Liljegren has tremendous IQ, insane skill, great skating. His shot can get better, he'll need to adjust his entire game to fit smaller ice.

I'm sorry to those that want him to fail just to say "LOL Leafs" but it was apparent even pre-draft that he shouldn't have made it out of the top 10.

 

[firstemperor]

Thought Liljegren was the the best d-man on the ice today. He confirmed what I've seen from him in past short tournies (~post-mono), he's not afraid to engage and knock players off the puck defensively.

He was great getting zone exits/entries and creating rushes the other way.....really, he was the only d-man on either team that was doing this with ease. Swedish forwards up front were underwhelming for the most part.

Mittlestadt and Andersson were the best forwards on the ice.

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

I don't think he has 'insane skill'. But he's good at everything else. Button was hitting the nail on the head today from what I've seen of him. He can move the puck, play competent defense, skate the puck out of traffic, rush the puck, but once hes in the zone he sort of fizzles out.

 

[TDK67]

I don't think he has 'insane skill'. But he's good at everything else. Button was hitting the nail on the head today from what I've seen of him. He can move the puck, play competent defense, skate the puck out of traffic, rush the puck, but once hes in the zone he sort of fizzles out.

I disagree based on today's game. He would typically get a decent shot off or defer to other players once he got in the offensive zone. The play typically died on one of the 4 other skaters' sticks rather than Liljegren's.

Also, IMO, Button was rambling on with his preconceived ideas regarding Liljegren and missing 90% of the things he did in the actual game in front of him. It was pretty frustrating tbh.

*great end-to-end rush resulting in a high danger chance*
"Yea, I think Liljegren will be like Trevor Daley. Good offense in junior but not much offense in the NHL."

Like...the kid just demonstrated why he's offensively gifted and could be a high producer at the NHL level but Button just continues on a thread he started 10 mins ago that doesn't actually correspond with what we were seeing from Liljegren.

 

[Slimmy]

Craig Button is an embarrassment. Willy is still in Toronto Button! Oooooooops!

 

[93LEAFS]

Thought I'd move this post here, since its relevent and actually worth discussion. I'm still waiting for Lawrence's long list of players who had mono in their draft season and didn't have it affect their draft stock. My guess is he doesn't have one.

news to me.

Please provide your supporting evidence of this.

Pretty funny, I ask you to present evidence, and you answer a question with a question. Really shows your level of knowledge on the situation.

They all got mono in their draft year and all of their stocks fell. Colin White entered the year as a top 10 pick according to multiple places. Couturier was believed to be battling Larsson for #1 OA entering their draft year. Trying to find historical evidence on where Couture started his draft year is difficult at this point in time, but I remember it affecting his stock, and it is well documented he had mono. Here's a quote from the Sharks director of scouting at the time.

https://www.nhl.com/sharks/news/sharks-select-logan-couture-with-ninth-overall-pick/c-474467

“If you look at his season, because he had mono and he was injured early in the year, there was a little bit of an incomplete to the first half of the year, and then he really came on. But based on what he had done the year before, in the early ratings was rated pretty high. He slipped down from not playing. Rob Grillo and Gilles Cote stuck by him. There was a degree of risk, but we were willing to take it because he was the one forward we were really reaching for.

Colin White got mono and prior to his draft year was talked about as a top 10 pick. Outside of that, he was ranked #5 by Hockey Prospect in their 2014 Black Book.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nhl-draft/insider/post?id=680

8. Colin White, C, USNTDP (USHL)


White was one of the more dynamic players to suit up for the U.S. under-17 team in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and was the leader in goals and points at the IIHF World Under-17 Challenge. He's a pretty good skater who plays with energy and pace. Despite an average frame, he shows good physicality. White also has a high level of skill and hockey IQ.

Here are two quotes from NHL scouts from the 2015 Black Book

“This is a kid who blew up the USHL last year.†– NHL Scout

“Plenty of bad luck hurt this kids draft year.†– NHL Scout

Couturier was in the top 2 entering his draft season and got mono that off-season. He fell from consensus top 2 down the draft.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/juniorh...the-forgotten-mono-an?urn=juniorhockey-306119

The scouting bureau's E.J. McGuire did toss out one factor with projecting Couturier, the Drummondville Voltigeurs centre who had a decent world junior tournament with Team Canada. As Sean Fitz-Gerald at the National Post related, illness during the summer kept Couturier from adding a few pounds to his 6-foot-4 frame:

" ... Couturier missed an earlier date with NHL scouts last summer, as he battled a bout of mononucleosis.

" 'Mononucleosis is one of those things that the expert medical scouts say it takes a full year to get back from that,' McGuire said. 'Well, if he falls all the way to No. 6, and somebody grabs him and he does recover more fully from his draft year mononucleosis  I mean, they may have the best player in the draft at No. 6.' " (Posted Sports)

But, you are the one who said multiple players come back and it doesn't affect their stock at all. I asked you to prove something, and you just came back with a question, which probably means, you couldn't think of a bunch of players who got Mono in their draft season who didn't hurt their stock. I'll give you one, which is Gudbranson. It didn't hurt Pietrangelo but he never played after getting sick (as it happened late in the year).

But, I'm done discussing this in the Dahlin thread as it is quite off-topic. But, you seem to have very little supporting evidence for a claim you continually make. Hence why when pressed you try to flip the question.

 

[93LEAFS]

Moved this over too.

The evidence is right in front your face. Despite having mono those players you just named, still played exceptionally well during their draft years be good enough to be taken in a top 10 spot.

I don't recall any of those players being talked about how badly they played because of mono of an issue.

Like you said, move on, and don't derail this off topic. You guys are epic for that ****.

Except all of their draft stocks decreased. Colin White wasn't taken in the top 10. You actually have no examples of anything to do with players with Mono out of players I put forth. You actually don't know what you are talking about at all or have any supporting evidence that you have provided.

Find me players who's draft stock wasn't negatively affected by getting Mono in there draft year. All of those players stocks decreased from where they started the year.

Looking quickly through Gare Joyce's Future Greats and Heartbreaks it reveals Couture was ISS (back when ISS was reliable) was the #1 prospect for the 2017 draft and fell drastically throughout the year and finally was drafted at 9.... So, I'd say all these guys draft stocks were negatively altered, whether they were drafted top 10 or not.

And though five dollars and the clipping will buy you a latte, the International, Scouting Service proclaimed Couture its pre-season top-ranked prospect in all of hockeydom among those eligible for the 2007 NHL entry draft.

Joyce, Gare. Future Greats and Heartbreaks: A Year Undercover in the Secret World of NHL Scouts (Kindle Locations 4431-4432). Doubleday Canada. Kindle Edition.

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

Craig Button is an embarrassment. Willy is still in Toronto Button! Oooooooops!

What did he say this time?

 

[Slimmy]

What did he say this time?

It was early this year. Doofus with a great deal of certainty claimed Willy would not be a long time Leaf. Was going to be traded for a D prospect, I believe his line of thinking was.

 

[zeke]

So let me get this straight. Liljegren can become just as good as anyone in the draft and it's not absurd to say so a month after a draft where 16 players went ahead... And if the leafs had the first pick you all would've been thrilled if they passed on hischier moved down and took liljegren?

correct.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Thought Liljegren was the the best d-man on the ice today. He confirmed what I've seen from him in past short tournies (~post-mono), he's not afraid to engage and knock players off the puck defensively.

He was great getting zone exits/entries and creating rushes the other way.....really, he was the only d-man on either team that was doing this with ease. Swedish forwards up front were underwhelming for the most part.

Mittlestadt and Andersson were the best forwards on the ice.

Shhhh............don't tell anyone. You'll muddle up their attempt at making him out to be a flawed draft pick because the Leafs took him.

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

It was early this year. Doofus with a great deal of certainty claimed Willy would not be a long time Leaf. Was going to be traded for a D prospect, I believe his line of thinking was.

Ah... Button looks and sounds like a comic book character

 

[Patmac40]

5 shots in the game yesterday, had some nice rushes with the puck and had some plays where he looked very poised with pressure. I recall a play in the 2nd (I think it was the 2nd at least) where he had two USA forwards on him in the defensive zone, he stripped the puck away from one of the forwards, made a quick turn up ice and led a rush the other way. I was very impressed.

 

[Walshy7]

5 shots in the game yesterday, had some nice rushes with the puck and had some plays where he looked very poised with pressure. I recall a play in the 2nd (I think it was the 2nd at least) where he had two USA forwards on him in the defensive zone, he stripped the puck away from one of the forwards, made a quick turn up ice and led a rush the other way. I was very impressed.

this play?

 

[Patmac40]

this play?

That's it exactly.

 

[zharkenby]

correct.

I mean I'm really not going to waste to much time on this because you're clearly just being homers... But you realize hischier is if not the best the second best prospect in the league and liljegren doesn't crack the top 30 right? Lol

 

[Morgs]

I mean I'm really not going to waste to much time on this because you're clearly just being homers... But you realize hischier is if not the best the second best prospect in the league and liljegren doesn't crack the top 30 right? Lol

And that's why Hischier went 1st OA and Liljegren went 17th OA.

I bet Nail Yakupov was a better prospect 2 months after the draft than Colton Parayko. Do prospect rankings after the 2012 draft matter now?

 

[Constable]

See post below; I have no clue how this sent

 

[Constable]

People need to realize that Dallas Daley and Chicago/Pittsburgh Daley are two different people. Dallas Daley is a #2-3.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

Very fluid skater and puck handler. Excellent shot and good vision. Isnt afraid to carry the puck and isnt in a rush to pass it off. Confident in his abilities. Seems to get fixated on specific plays and sometimes tries to force it when its not there. Will need some grooming on making quicker decisions with the puck.

Everything i've seen leads me to believe this is a player almost identical to Jake Gardiner. If he is in fact Gardiner then the Leafs made a great pick.

 

[TDK67]

I mean I'm really not going to waste to much time on this because you're clearly just being homers... But you realize hischier is if not the best the second best prospect in the league and liljegren doesn't crack the top 30 right? Lol

Well Marner (for example) wasn't ever the #1 prospect in those kind of rankings and he's much better than Hischier. Goes to show those rankings don't mean much.

Hopefully Hischier turns out better than the RNHs, Yakupovs, Johnsons of the 1st OA world because this 2017 draft certainly wasn't top heavy.

 

[4thline]

I mean I'm really not going to waste to much time on this because you're clearly just being homers... But you realize hischier is if not the best the second best prospect in the league and liljegren doesn't crack the top 30 right? Lol

But you do realize that this is a meaningless distinction at the present time, there's a group of ~7-15 prospects at the top then another ~30-40 in the next tier. There isn't the ultra high end talent (and resultant large gaps) at the top of the current league pool.