RD Moritz Seider (2019, 6th, DET) Part 2

[JohnLennon]

Seider is not a powerplay QB.
Jesus. Fanboys are too much.

I'm neither a Wings fan nor have I watched enough Seider to evaluate him entirely, but at the rate of his current progression, I don't find it reasonable to make this kind of proclamation. I understand tempering expectations, but outright dismissing an entirely realistic possibility is not fair either.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I'm neither a Wings fan nor have I watched enough Seider to evaluate him entirely, but at the rate of his current progression, I don't find it reasonable to make this kind of proclamation. I understand tempering expectations, but outright dismissing an entirely realistic possibility is not fair either.

Some people focus too much on flashy skills or the (lack of) a booming slapshot. Seider looks very good walking the blueline for Rögle, dismissing a PPQB potential is foolish at this point.

Here's some showcase of one underrated quality of his game that helps create offense; he's really good at keeping the puck in the o-zone:

 

[JohnLennon]

Some people focus too much on flashy skills or the (lack of) a booming slapshot. Seider looks very good walking the blueline for Rögle, dismissing a PPQB potential is foolish at this point.

Here's some showcase of one underrated quality of his game that helps create offense; he's really good at keeping the puck in the o-zone:

Absolutely love that patience and poise. Something about his confidence on the blueline and the way he carries himself really reminds me of Hedman.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Some people focus too much on flashy skills or the (lack of) a booming slapshot. Seider looks very good walking the blueline for Rögle, dismissing a PPQB potential is foolish at this point.

Here's some showcase of one underrated quality of his game that helps create offense; he's really good at keeping the puck in the o-zone:

I've been saying this since he started in Grand Rapids. This was one of the things that made guys like Lidstrom and Pronger so great; phenomenal hand-eye coordination to swat pucks down at the line. It's the difference between maintaining a cycle and keeping a team hemmed into their zone on a long shift versus chasing it down to your end and allowing them to get fresh guys on to counter.

 

[19 for president]

I've been saying this since he started in Grand Rapids. This was one of the things that made guys like Lidstrom and Pronger so great; phenomenal hand-eye coordination to swat pucks down at the line. It's the difference between maintaining a cycle and keeping a team hemmed into their zone on a long shift versus chasing it down to your end and allowing them to get fresh guys on to counter.

Lids had a good shot but not a great one in terms of power, but what he had was the ability to consistently get his shot through. Seider has been good at this too. He uses more of a snapper/ good wrist shot, but he has still demonstrated a solid ability to get pucks on net. This is what allowed the Lids/Homer connection to be so effective. I'll take the guy on the PP that keeps the puck in at the line and gets pucks on net over big slappers like Sammy and Schneider that were high and wide or dead center logo 90% of the time. I honestly miss the two defensemen PP days (Lids/ Murph, Lids/Raffy, Pronger/AlMac).

 

[Ricelund]

 

[deca guard]

 

[NyQuil]

A lot of expectations riding on this kid.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

A lot of expectations riding on this kid.

Yup. I think at this point it's because he's done nothing but exceed expectations. A lot of people expected a physical, steady stay at homer #3 guy only capable of 20 points a season just by virtue of playing 22 minutes a night after he was drafted.

After 50 games in the AHL it was pretty clear that he would exceed those point totals and looked to be that complementary #2 top pairing defender that you put with a Quinn Hughes type to let them rove. At that time I was comparing Seider's potential to Mattias Ohlund in Vancouver.

Now after what is currently the 2nd best SHL season offensively by a U20 defender (1st in points per game) while ALSO being a total rock defensively we're expecting a guy that's going to be at minimum a top 10 all situations defender that's out there for 25 minutes a night.

It might not be fair to put such high expectations on him because the kid isn't even 20 until April, but he's looking like a truly special player.

 

[EXTRAS]

Yup. I think at this point it's because he's done nothing but exceed expectations. A lot of people expected a physical, steady stay at homer #3 guy only capable of 20 points a season just by virtue of playing 22 minutes a night after he was drafted.

After 50 games in the AHL it was pretty clear that he would exceed those point totals and looked to be that complementary #2 top pairing defender that you put with a Quinn Hughes type to let them rove. At that time I was comparing Seider's potential to Mattias Ohlund in Vancouver.

Now after what is currently the 2nd best SHL season offensively by a U20 defender (1st in points per game) while ALSO being a total rock defensively we're expecting a guy that's going to be at minimum a top 10 all situations defender that's out there for 25 minutes a night.

It might not be fair to put such high expectations on him because the kid isn't even 20 until April, but he's looking like a truly special player.

Who was #1 u20 defender?

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Yup. I think at this point it's because he's done nothing but exceed expectations. A lot of people expected a physical, steady stay at homer #3 guy only capable of 20 points a season just by virtue of playing 22 minutes a night after he was drafted.

After 50 games in the AHL it was pretty clear that he would exceed those point totals and looked to be that complementary #2 top pairing defender that you put with a Quinn Hughes type to let them rove. At that time I was comparing Seider's potential to Mattias Ohlund in Vancouver.

Now after what is currently the 2nd best SHL season offensively by a U20 defender (1st in points per game) while ALSO being a total rock defensively we're expecting a guy that's going to be at minimum a top 10 all situations defender that's out there for 25 minutes a night.

It might not be fair to put such high expectations on him because the kid isn't even 20 until April, but he's looking like a truly special player.

it’s hard not to put these lofty projections on the kid as he just keeps shattering expectations put on him.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Who was #1 u20 defender?

Nils Lundqvist of the NYR in 2019-2020. He scored 31 points and 0.69ppg in 45 games.

Seider is at 25 points and 0.71ppg in 35 games. He's unlikely to break Lundqvist's record because of how much time Seider missed from a shoulder injury. That's still a phenomenal year though.

Also of note, Wings D prospect Albert Johansson has tied his father for 6th best season by a U20 defenseman with games still to play. 10 points in his last 11 games played since returning from the WJC. He'll end up somewhere between 3rd and 5th by the end of the year.

 

[EXTRAS]

Nils Lundqvist of the NYR in 2019-2020. He scored 31 points and 0.69ppg in 45 games.

Seider is at 25 points and 0.71ppg in 35 games. He's unlikely to break Lundqvist's record because of how much time Seider missed from a shoulder injury. That's still a phenomenal year though.

Also of note, Wings D prospect Albert Johansson has tied his father for 6th best season by a U20 defenseman with games still to play. 10 points in his last 11 games played since returning from the WJC. He'll end up somewhere between 3rd and 5th by the end of the year.

Sounds to me like the reason these guys are beating records is because the SHL is getting easier, or higher scoring? Weird that they are all being broken in the past few years.

I do think seider is gonna be great, but I'd personally take that specific offense with a grain of salt.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Sounds to me like the reason these guys are beating records is because the SHL is getting easier, or higher scoring? Weird that they are all being broken in the past few years.

I do think seider is gonna be great, but I'd personally take that specific offense with a grain of salt.

It really isn't getting easier to score, though. If you look at the highest scoring seasons, just like in the NHL they were in the 80s and 90s.

And it's not like the list of the SHL's highest scoring under 20 defensemen is chopped liver, either. You have Lidstrom, Ohlund, Hedman, Freddy Olausson, Kenny Jonsson, Ulf Samuelsson and a lot of notable former NHLers in that list.

The SHL is the 3rd best league in the world, my dude. It's pretty impressive to be up that high.

 

[EXTRAS]

It really isn't getting easier to score, though. If you look at the highest scoring seasons, just like in the NHL they were in the 80s and 90s.

And it's not like the list of the SHL's highest scoring under 20 defensemen is chopped liver, either. You have Lidstrom, Ohlund, Hedman, Freddy Olausson, Kenny Jonsson, Ulf Samuelsson and a lot of notable former NHLers in that list.

The SHL is the 3rd best league in the world, my dude. It's pretty impressive to be up that high.

SHLs highest isnt chopped liver, which is exactly why I'm saying it's getting easier to score now. If you have multiple guys in a 2 year span able to outscore lidstrom, ohlund, and hedman, it kinda says it's easier to score now than it was when the greats were playing.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

SHLs highest isnt chopped liver, which is exactly why I'm saying it's getting easier to score now. If you have multiple guys in a 2 year span able to outscore lidstrom, ohlund, and hedman, it kinda says it's easier to score now than it was when the greats were playing.

18 year old Hedman wasn't the player that 28 year old Hedman was. Just like 19 year old Lidstrom wasn't the player that 29 year old Lidstrom was.

It isn't necessarily easier to score in the SHL now. I can't speak for how the game was played in the 80's through the late 00's during the Elitsieren days, but having watched the SHL a lot this season I've noticed that the system many teams employ is similar to the one that Nashville employs.

Centers play a more traditional, defensive role on the attack. Some teams like Lulea and Rogle will have a pair of defensemen that are both capable of carrying the puck from their goal line to the other team's blueline before making a play to a winger, or attack like an additional winger.

If you get a chance, watch Nils Lundkvist and Eric Gustafsson play together in Lulea, or Seider and Eric Gelinas in Rogle. Eric Martinsson and Matt Donovan have been entertaining to watch on HV71. There are a few other teams where both defensemen alternate who joins the attack as well.

 

[EXTRAS]

I hope you're right. I own him in my fantasy dynasty league

I'd be over the moon if he was a 35 point defensive stalwart like Parayko. Seems a lot of people now want him to be a Hedman tho.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I hope you're right. I own him in my fantasy dynasty league

I'd be over the moon if he was a 35 point defensive stalwart like Parayko. Seems a lot of people now want him to be a Hedman tho.

I hope I'm right, too. People want to compare Seider to Parayko now just because they're both big RHD. I think in 3 years time Parayko is going to wish he could play like Seider.

 

[Ezekial]

Someone should tell the forwards it's easier to score (U20 SHL scoring)

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Someone should tell the forwards it's easier to score (U20 SHL scoring)

View attachment 400906

I have to say it, and not because I love dissing Oilers fans, but more because I love trashing Ken Holland.

Albert Johansson, the #60 overall pick in 2019 is outscoring Broberg and is a +15 to Broberg's -3. I love it.

 

[Pavels Dog]

SHLs highest isnt chopped liver, which is exactly why I'm saying it's getting easier to score now. If you have multiple guys in a 2 year span able to outscore lidstrom, ohlund, and hedman, it kinda says it's easier to score now than it was when the greats were playing.

In 89-90 when Lidstrom was in SHL, there were 22 swedish players getting at least 1 game in NHL.
Last year, that number was 100 players.

Yes, the SHL is "easier" these days. The talent is more diluted, with young guys leaving for NHL/AHL earlier, with older guys going to KHL or other euro leagues to a higher extent than they did 30 years ago.
That doesn't mean the SHL is a bad league, the depth of talent is still good. But what happens is that it becomes easier for 18-19 year olds to get significant opportunities.

Also when looking at historical U20D scoring, keep in mind Hedman and Dahlin (and some others) did it as 18 year olds. What would they have done as 19 year olds? Probably comparable or better than Lundkvist/Seider.

ALL those things said, given the type of player that Seider is; the offensive numbers are definitely something to be excited about. As we can see, there are other highly touted D prospects that can't put up numbers anywhere near that level (Broberg, Björnfot etc). So it's not like just anyone can do it, but I don't think the comparison to 30 years ago is very meaningful.

 

[Seiza]

I would also add that historically young d-men had a tougher time getting minutes in the top league. There were also fever teams in the league and Swedish players took longer to develop back then.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Someone should tell the forwards it's easier to score (U20 SHL scoring)

View attachment 400906

We could have four of the top 5 if we get Eklund this year. We have a lot invested in Sweden these days again.

That graphic really is spectacular, Seider has done nothing but excel since draft night. Like others are saying it is hard not to be so excited for this guy. He has such a big personality too on and off the ice. For a team that is in a pretty dark place, his importance is beginning to become really apparent. I think he will meet the heightening expectations though, I am not sure the guy knows how to fail and I think he actually has a ton more in him developmentally. I think he is already the best D-man in our entire organization. He seems to be getting better and better with each professional shift. He is going to have a big immediate impact either very late this season if Rogle loses early in the playoffs or to start next year.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I was so, so wrong about this pick. Huge props to Yzerman. Could very well be the best player of the 2019 draft.

Having watched him a bunch since he was drafted and a bit more this season, I believe his potential is Hedman. Not Hedman lite, just Hedman.

more of a level of impact comparison though, because I’m not sure there’s anybody in the league right now that plays quite like him. He’s got a unique style with his defensive strength + punishing physical play and fantastic offensive instincts, but not really an offensive defenseman per se. not many in the league like him right now

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I think it would be pretty reasonable to expect Seth Jones type offence from Seider.