RD Axel Sandin Pellikka - Skellefteå, SHL (2023, 17th, DET)

[Realgud]

Not sure why the discussion of Seider vs ASP for pp1 keeps coming up. I'm not targetting anyone in particular as this comes from wings fans and non-wings fans alike but people should be aware that they don't even play the same position on the pp. I have admittedly not watched him in the playoffs so maybe that has changed but it was a discussion before even when it shouldn't have been. They'll both play on pp1 if they are good enough to be on pp1. No real dilemma there.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I just can't fathom Seider getting paid near 9MM/yr and not being PP1

Why you think they signed Ghost this year lol.

 

[norrisnick]

Why you think they signed Ghost this year lol.

Apparently to run a less effective PP than Seider.

And just less effective offense period. Both PP and ES the Wings score more per 60 with Seider than Ghost.

 

[norrisnick]

ASP on the PP would work best like Ghost did at the start of the season. Mo up high as the distributor and last man back defensively with the 2nd D as a shooter in the wing spot. So really ASP will be competing with DBC and/or Perron if he's re-signed.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Apparently to run a less effective PP than Seider.

And just less effective offense period. Both PP and ES the Wings score more per 60 with Seider than Ghost.

To nerf Seider's contract.

 

[FlyguyOX]

To nerf Seider's contract.

Yeah, but I don't think they really achieved that too much tbh.

 

[CowbellConray]

Is he ready for the NHL? From his season I thought he was still two years away or so

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Is he ready for the NHL? From his season I thought he was still two years away or so

Nah. He's staying in the SHL.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Nobody thought Makar was Makar until he was Makar. Same with Fox. Same with Hughes.

For the record I do not think ASP will reach anywhere the level of these guys and I think he'll be closer to a Tyson Barrie level defenseman most likely. But let's not pretend like he doesn't have the potential, because he does.

I just can't fathom Seider getting paid near 9MM/yr and not being PP1

ASP should play the PP1 role over Seider.

People keep shitting on Seider's play this season but still don't get the role he had to play. He is the only competent top 4 defenseman on the entire team. When he gets more help in the form of Ed/ASP/Wallinder etc, it'll look very different. Defense is where Seider shines, I forsee a future powerplay of DBC-Larkin-Raymond-ASP-trade/FA and Seider running PP2.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Nobody thought Makar was Makar until he was Makar. Same with Fox. Same with Hughes.

For the record I do not think ASP will reach anywhere the level of these guys and I think he'll be closer to a Tyson Barrie level defenseman most likely. But let's not pretend like he doesn't have the potential, because he does.


ASP should play the PP1 role over Seider.

People keep shitting on Seider's play this season but still don't get the role he had to play. He is the only competent top 4 defenseman on the entire team. When he gets more help in the form of Ed/ASP/Wallinder etc, it'll look very different. Defense is where Seider shines, I forsee a future powerplay of DBC-Larkin-Raymond-ASP-trade/FA and Seider running PP2.

I am not shitting on Seider. I'm high on his offense than you, apparently. He's had to carry a cinder block on his pair since he entered the league. He made amazing offensive plays in the SHL like ASP did. He whips the puck around fast af on the PP. I think he can still be PP1. The only reason he hasn't been is because Lalonde's dumb-ass pigeon-holed Seider into the historical defensive usage this season.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I am not shitting on Seider. I'm high on his offense than you, apparently. He's had to carry a cinder block on his pair since he entered the league. He made amazing offensive plays in the SHL like ASP did. He whips the puck around fast af on the PP. I think he can still be PP1. The only reason he hasn't been is because Lalonde's dumb-ass pigeon-holed Seider into the historical defensive usage this season.

I think that's fair but I think Seider's strengths are his PMD ability and his shutdown defense when he isn't being relied on at historic levels. I would play ot ASP's strength and use him as the PP option if he reaches his potential.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I am not shitting on Seider. I'm high on his offense than you, apparently. He's had to carry a cinder block on his pair since he entered the league. He made amazing offensive plays in the SHL like ASP did. He whips the puck around fast af on the PP. I think he can still be PP1. The only reason he hasn't been is because Lalonde's dumb-ass pigeon-holed Seider into the historical defensive usage this season.

I don't think that was just a Lalonde thing.

Again, I think they deliberately nerfed his offensive opportunities in a contract year.

 

[Dotter]

I hope ASP becomes better than Quinn Hughes.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

There are way more disaster stories from defenders in the profile of Sandin Pellikka than sucess stories.

Remember how good of a D+1 Erik Brannstrom had and he was hyped to the moon.

Nils Lundkvist.

I think ASP is better, but it's hard for these style of players to make it.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Add in the context that part of why he didn’t get more assists is he’s such a good shooter, i.e. if he was a bad shooter he’d be put in a more playmaking role on the PP (which is where he was in the playoffs = 5 assist in 14 games).

The same exact things were said about Nils Lundkvist. I probably said them too, so I'm not hating on those that did.

For the record, I think ASP will be better and hope he can have more success, but the lack of true PP1 quarterbacking ability did end up mattering for Lundkvist when he wasn't able to beat goalies clean at the NHL level.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Lundkvist was a Rangers prospect.

So that's why he ended up worse than Zac Jones (same style of player drafted a year later and picked 3rd round)? Lundkvist has also struggled with the Stars.

Do the Rangers not get credit for Fox? Shestyorkin? Miller, Lafreniere, Lindgren, Chytil, Schneider are all valuable NHL players. Even Kakko, while a bust for 2OA, isn't like "out of the league at 23" bad. He's just not going to reach his potential. Lafreniere for instance is well on his way to being a 1PPG winger he was drafted to be.

We've had some picks that didn't work out, but so has every team. Not sure your argument for Lundkvist makes any sense.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Nils Lundkvist.

I think ASP is better, but it's hard for these style of players to make it.

The same exact things were said about Nils Lundkvist. I probably said them too, so I'm not hating on those that did.

For the record, I think ASP will be better and hope he can have more success, but the lack of true PP1 quarterbacking ability did end up mattering for Lundkvist when he wasn't able to beat goalies clean at the NHL level.

Lundkvist d+1 (across SHL regular season, playoffs and WJC):
13 points in 53GP (0.25 pts/GP)

ASP d+1:
31 points in 60GP (.52 pts/GP)
WJC Best defenseman
Swedish defenseman of the year

That's some of the context you're missing with the Lundkvist comparison.

So that's why he ended up worse than Zac Jones (same style of player drafted a year later and picked 3rd round)? Lundkvist has also struggled with the Stars.

I was (and still am) skeptical of Lundkvist, but you need to change your definition of "ended up". Those guys are 23 years old. I'd also probably put Lundkvist's NHL resume to date ahead of Jones, even though neither one is doing much to impress.

The key with these smaller d-men is often in the details. I don't think we know enough about ASP to say for sure where and what he will be, but the early signs are far more promising than most of the guys he's being compared to.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Lundkvist d+1 (across SHL regular season, playoffs and WJC):
13 points in 53GP (0.25 pts/GP)

ASP d+1:
31 points in 60GP (.52 pts/GP)
WJC Best defenseman
Swedish defenseman of the year

That's some of the context you're missing with the Lundkvist comparison.

I’m not missing any context.

ASP had a better D+1. Lundkvist didn’t have a good D+1, and there were worries he could be a bust, which were well founded. Yet, that doesn’t make ASP clear from also ending up struggling to make it in the NHL.

If he can put up better stats season by season, it suggests he has a better chance to make it in the NHL. We’ll see how he does in future years, but even if he does do better it still doesn’t mean he’s guaranteed to have NHL success.

I was (and still am) skeptical of Lundkvist, but you need to change your definition of "ended up". Those guys are 23 years old. I'd also probably put Lundkvist's NHL resume to date ahead of Jones, even though neither one is doing much to impress.

Not true.

Lundkvist is the sixth defenseman on a team that only gives a regular shift to five. Don’t think there’s another team in the playoffs like this who hides a defenseman in the way Lundkvist is hidden. He’s been given every opportunity to succeed. Dallas literally traded a first round pick for him, and he’s still not doing well enough to get a regular shift.

The Rangers bottom pair is Gustafsson-Trouba, which has to be the best bottom pair in the league. Jones has had an excellent season and would be in the lineup for essentially any other team in the league. Probably should be on his own team, but veteran coaches have a hard time sitting veteran players with big salaries and captaincies and a lot of NHL games.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I’m not missing any context.

ASP had a better D+1. Lundkvist didn’t have a good D+1, and there were worries he could be a bust, which were well founded. Yet, that doesn’t make ASP clear from also ending up struggling to make it in the NHL.

If he can put up better stats season by season, it suggests he has a better chance to make it in the NHL. We’ll see how he does in future years, but even if he does do better it still doesn’t mean he’s guaranteed to have NHL success.

Except the context of one player having a much better d+1 lol.

No, that doesn't guarantee ASP success in the NHL, but it does make things like Lundkvist-comparisons feel like reaches.

 

[ricky0034]

I’m not missing any context.

ASP had a better D+1. Lundkvist didn’t have a good D+1, and there were worries he could be a bust, which were well founded. Yet, that doesn’t make ASP clear from also ending up struggling to make it in the NHL.

If he can put up better stats season by season, it suggests he has a better chance to make it in the NHL. We’ll see how he does in future years, but even if he does do better it still doesn’t mean he’s guaranteed to have NHL success.


Not true.

Lundkvist is the sixth defenseman on a team that only gives a regular shift to five. Don’t think there’s another team in the playoffs like this who hides a defenseman in the way Lundkvist is hidden. He’s been given every opportunity to succeed. Dallas literally traded a first round pick for him, and he’s still not doing well enough to get a regular shift.

The Rangers bottom pair is Gustafsson-Trouba, which has to be the best bottom pair in the league. Jones has had an excellent season and would be in the lineup for essentially any other team in the league. Probably should be on his own team, but veteran coaches have a hard time sitting veteran players with big salaries and captaincies and a lot of NHL games.

I went and looked it up thinking you must be exaggerating a bit and apparently Lundkvist is playing 4 minutes a night in the Playoffs

that's crazy, especially considering that's an average over 10 games

 

[wetcoast]

I hope ASP becomes better than Quinn Hughes.

Pprepare to be disappointed.

 

[dj Mahoney]

Would he be comparable to Topi Niemela ? They seem very similar .

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Would he be comparable to Topi Niemela ? They seem very similar .

0G 4A in 15 games in a lesser league in Niemela's D+1.

Ya bro very similar. Good trolling.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Except the context of one player having a much better d+1 lol.

No, that doesn't guarantee ASP success in the NHL, but it does make things like Lundkvist-comparisons feel like reaches.

The comparisons are about how they play the game. Don’t think anyone has argued against that ASP has a better chance to make it. Question is how much better (probably not that much) and how much the difference in that one year helps ASP in a way it didn’t help Lundkvist (probably also not that much).

I went and looked it up thinking you must be exaggerating a bit and apparently Lundkvist is playing 4 minutes a night in the Playoffs

that's crazy, especially considering that's an average over 10 games

DeBoer was asked why he’s only playing five defensemen regularly and his response was that there’s no rule he has to play more than five. Great endorsement for the sixth guy.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I remember when Lundkvist was nearly as good a prospect as Seider.