RD Adam Fox (2016, 66th, CGY; traded to CAR; traded to NYR)

[Pavel Buchnevich]

For argument's sake, let's look at the best recent draft--2015. Four years later Aho and Hintz are really the only 2nd rounders making a difference.
Getting Fox on the ice this year is worth a Harkins or Knott.
One side might end up much better off—but when you aren't sure which side, that is a reasonable trade.

Hindsight is 20/20, so it's best to not judge it with hindsight. We'll be able to figure out in 10 years, but I think right now when making a determination, I don't think a rebuilding team should up a second round pick for a quality rookie to get an extra 50-55 games. What's the worst that can happen if he's sent down to the AHL? Is he going to cease being a quality player at the start of next season? The team is already forcing a clear NHL ready player, Shestyorkin, into a role because of rather bogus roster considerations. Why not do it with Fox when a much more compelling roster consideration is attached? For all we know, this is the 32nd pick of the draft. It might be as valuable of a pick as Boston or Tampa Bay's first round pick this year.

 

[emptyNedder]

Hindsight is 20/20, so it's best to not judge it with hindsight.

I can see your point—basically said as much by stating that either side can end up doing much better in this trade.

That said, I wasn't using hindsight as a rhetorical device. I was going for "best case scenario" by using 2015 2nd rounders.
Let's say the pick is 32nd overall. During the last decade that would equate to:
Jared Knight
Ty Rattie
Mitch Moroz
Chris Bigras
Jayce Hawryluk
Christian Fischer
Tyler Benson
Connor Timmins
Mattias Samuelsson
Shane Pinto

Again my point isn't about hindsight, but rather the historic truism that any pick outside the top 5-10, even the highest of 2nd rounders, has a low probability of being a solid NHLer.

 

[Smart Alek]

What's the worst that can happen if he's sent down to the AHL?

You ruin your relationship with a (potentially) future #1 defenseman 24 games into his NHL career.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You ruin your relationship with a (potentially) future #1 defenseman 24 games into his NHL career.

He's not going to be a #1 defensemen. Did the Rangers ruin their relationship with their future #1 goaltender by sending him to Hartford at the beginning of the season?

The team also comes before the player. If Fox so badly disliked a demotion for selfish purposes, he can request a trade, and I'm sure we can find a trade for him. As good as Fox has been, he's playing third fiddle on the right side because Trouba and DeAngelo are both very good in their own right. Then again, Fox only wanted to play for us, so I don't think there would be much to worry about with ruining the team's relationship with the player, if that even mattered.

 

[Levitate]

Rangers aren’t going to send him down unless his play warrants it. They won’t do it solely because of the draft pick condition.
And I like DeAngelo but Fox is showing some puck moving and smarts and defensive ability that is beyond DeAngelos current ability. He could easily end up better than DeAngelo by the seasons end.

 

[Smart Alek]

He's not going to be a #1 defensemen. Did the Rangers ruin their relationship with their future #1 goaltender by sending him to Hartford at the beginning of the season?

The team also comes before the player. If Fox so badly disliked a demotion for selfish purposes, he can request a trade, and I'm sure we can find a trade for him. As good as Fox has been, he's playing third fiddle on the right side because Trouba and DeAngelo are both very good in their own right. Then again, Fox only wanted to play for us, so I don't think there would be much to worry about with ruining the team's relationship with the player, if that even mattered.

You'd make an excellent GM.

 

[bl02]

Sending Fox to the AHL??? Hell No!
Ranger fans predicted wrong guy to be in the Calder talks

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Sending Fox to the AHL??? Hell No!
Ranger fans predicted wrong guy to be in the Calder talks

Fox is probably better than Quinn Hughes right now and potentially even Makar with his early season struggles, but since he’s third in command on our right side and doesn’t get to leach free points off of superstars, he won’t be in contention for the Calder. It’s a points contest. Fox isn’t going to win that, although he is starting to put up more points.

But we don’t need him to win the Calder. People questioned if he would be any better than a bottom pairing PP specialist. He’s already a quality top 4 defensemen. He’s a top half of the league defensemen immediately.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

 

[Matz03]

He’s already a quality top 4 defensemen. He’s a top half of the league defensemen immediately.

I totally agree here, but I think he could be a 1st pairing d one day. Yes lots would have to fall into place, but he’s so smart out there and figuring out the league so quickly. He’s miles ahead of Ada in his own zone, not as flashy in the o zone but arguably just as effective. He’s already getting some first pp time. If he can play with the top players more, have a rock solid d parter, there’s a chance he could be a Duncan Keith type player. How this season unfolds could really tell us more about his upside, it might be more than we think.

 

[5cotland]

Fox is probably better than Quinn Hughes right now and potentially even Makar with his early season struggles, but since he’s third in command on our right side and doesn’t get to leach free points off of superstars, he won’t be in contention for the Calder. It’s a points contest. Fox isn’t going to win that, although he is starting to put up more points.

But we don’t need him to win the Calder. People questioned if he would be any better than a bottom pairing PP specialist. He’s already a quality top 4 defensemen. He’s a top half of the league defensemen immediately.

I love Fox on our team and think he will be top player for us but this comment is ridiculous.

Makar is a freak and is having a phenomenal season. Makar will be Karlsson 2.0 and more.

Fox will be great and played well again tonight. Great 2 point game but was sloppy on a couple of occassions with intercepted passes in his own zone.

 

[UnSandvich]

His no-look pass onto the tape of Kakko in OT was a thing of beauty

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I totally agree here, but I think he could be a 1st pairing d one day. Yes lots would have to fall into place, but he’s so smart out there and figuring out the league so quickly. He’s miles ahead of Ada in his own zone, not as flashy in the o zone but arguably just as effective. He’s already getting some first pp time. If he can play with the top players more, have a rock solid d parter, there’s a chance he could be a Duncan Keith type player. How this season unfolds could really tell us more about his upside, it might be more than we think.

I think he has a good chance at being a 2D. I think 1D is a stretch. Maybe top 31, but is Fox the type of 25 minute per game PP1, PK 1, ES TOI leader, player who will be the best defensemen on the defense core of a good team? I don't think so. I think he's more likely going to be a good 2D on a good team.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I love Fox on our team and think he will be top player for us but this comment is ridiculous.

Makar is a freak and is having a phenomenal season. Makar will be Karlsson 2.0 and more.

Fox will be great and played well again tonight. Great 2 point game but was sloppy on a couple of occassions with intercepted passes in his own zone.

Isn't Makar struggling defensively? I'm not saying Fox has higher upside because I don't think he does, but Fox is a draft before Makar, and he's come into the NHL immediately and is great in all zones. I suspect Makar will have more points because Colorado stacks their lineup, and gives big minutes and preferred situations to their best offensive players. He'll probably score a lot more points than Fox, but in the same team, whose the better player right now?

 

[BoxOfChocolates]

Isn't Makar struggling defensively? I'm not saying Fox has higher upside because I don't think he does, but Fox is a draft before Makar, and he's come into the NHL immediately and is great in all zones. I suspect Makar will have more points because Colorado stacks their lineup, and gives big minutes and preferred situations to their best offensive players. He'll probably score a lot more points than Fox, but in the same team, whose the better player right now?

Makar struggled for 5 games, that's about it. Been lights out since.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Fox also had the game winning assist. Brilliant pass.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Makar is at a PPG as a rook D...

Any defensive struggles he may or may not be having are outweighed by the fact that he's an offensive machine.

Fox has been awesome, but Makar has been a cut above.

 

[TeddyBare]

Fox is probably better than Quinn Hughes right now and potentially even Makar with his early season struggles, but since he’s third in command on our right side and doesn’t get to leach free points off of superstars, he won’t be in contention for the Calder. It’s a points contest. Fox isn’t going to win that, although he is starting to put up more points.

But we don’t need him to win the Calder. People questioned if he would be any better than a bottom pairing PP specialist. He’s already a quality top 4 defensemen. He’s a top half of the league defensemen immediately.

How?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Makar is at a PPG as a rook D...

Any defensive struggles he may or may not be having are outweighed by the fact that he's an offensive machine.

Fox has been awesome, but Makar has been a cut above.

Over the last 10 games I'd easily argue they are neck and neck. Slight edge on offense to Makar, slight edge on defense to Fox, actually they probably are about as close as possible on both of those.

Neck and neck, just like they were in the NCAA last season.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Over the last 10 games I'd easily argue they are neck and neck. Slight edge on offense to Makar, slight edge on defense to Fox, actually they probably are about as close as possible on both of those.

Neck and neck, just like they were in the NCAA last season.

How big of a homer can you possibly be....


Slight edge offensively? Are you f***ing kidding? One is barely producing 0.5 points per game while the other is literally doing something that hasn't been done in 40 years.


But ya, slight edge offensively. Jesus.

 

[bl02]

How big of a homer can you possibly be....


Slight edge offensively? Are you ****ing kidding? One is barely producing 0.5 points per game while the other is literally doing something that hasn't been done in 40 years.


But ya, slight edge offensively. Jesus.

I think he was referring to the last 10 games. Makar has 10 points Fox I believe has 8 in 9 games. Makar is an unreal offensive talent but over last 9-10 games it’s pretty close.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

How big of a homer can you possibly be....


Slight edge offensively? Are you ****ing kidding? One is barely producing 0.5 points per game while the other is literally doing something that hasn't been done in 40 years.


But ya, slight edge offensively. Jesus.

NCAA stats last season:

Fox: 48 points in 33 games (next highest on team 31 points)
Makar: 49 points in 41 games (next highest 47 points)

Last 9 NHL games:

Makar - 10 Points
Fox - 8 Points

Yea Makar definitely had the stronger first 8 games of the season, EIGHT games. Aside from those i'd say YEP they are very close. But please, keep being a homer.

 

[lilmaxo]

Put fox in the same role on colorado qbing a PP and im pretty sure he would be doing even better than makar. I think that fox has a better offensive upside. I think makar will be a more complete player but if were talking points only, id take fox because of his unique vision.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Fox also had the game winning assist. Brilliant pass.

The pass was fine. The pass was the least memorable thing about that play. The way Fox slowed the game down (not just his decision-making, but he literally slowed down play and drew everyone towards him) was incredible. It allowed Kakko to sneak by everyone for an easy tip-in.

Most other guys would've passed earlier and not allowed their man to get that open. The patience and vision on that play was unreal. I can't think of the last time I saw it in a Rangers defenseman. I don't want to say Leetch, but . . .

 

[Gardner McKay]

The pass was fine. The pass was the least memorable thing about that play. The way Fox slowed the game down (not just his decision-making, but he literally slowed down play and drew everyone towards him) was incredible. It allowed Kakko to sneak by everyone for an easy tip-in.

Most other guys would've passed earlier and not allowed their man to get that open. The patience and vision on that play was unreal. I can't think of the last time I saw it in a Rangers defenseman. I don't want to say Leetch, but . . .

... Leetch.