Player Discussion: Rasmus Kupari

[roccerfeller]

In terms of trade returns top 6 is too generic. We need a 2C, which is a top 6 C but not a 1C. Samberg should return a 2C, maybe with a small add. Maybe straight up. But, like I said, I would not do that trade. Dmen at that level are just as hard to get as 2Cs.

Exactly. Add to that in a top 4 defensive d man who would like the Jets as much as he does and the outdoors winnipeg offers as much and also have that chemistry he’s developed with pionk. We’d be trading one problem for another, possibly bigger one.

 

[bustamente]

Even then if we sign Rashevsky, he likely has the inside track on that role.

Agreed, I can also see Barron getting a chance to centre that 3rd line especially with the unknown status of Lowry at the beginning of the season

 

[surixon]

I think we know exactly what the org values in the C position. Size, skating and ability to win board battles. You gotta check those boxes. If you don't you won't get much of a shot. I'd imagine Barron gets more of a shot due to having those attributes than anyone else currently on the roster or in the system.

Yet they continue to ignore these attributes if it's in a vet. So they aren't married to them unless it's in a prospect.

 

[Daximus]

Yet they continue to ignore these attributes if it's in a vet. So they aren't married to them unless it's in a prospect.

Seems that way. Lambert and Yager will also have a short leash there if they ever get a shot.

 

[surixon]

Seems that way. Lambert and Yager will also have a short leash there if they ever get a shot.

I agree which I find self sabotaging on the orgs part.

They tried to bring in Henrique last summer as the 2C and he's no bigger than Cole and is a slower skater.

If that is what your idea is for a center then just give the kid you already have a shot.

This org makes things a lot harder on itself with some very rigid thinking at times.

 

[KingBogo]

This org for whatever reason hasn't had any patience for living with the growing pains of integrating a C in the top 6 since Scheifele.

We've had a number of young players who could have played C like Copp or Roslovic go on to play center full time in other markets. Vilardi looked good at times as a C in LA and I still maintain Cole plays like a center and should be able to handle the job but this org just doesn't give any these players a legit shot. Instead the org takes a very conservative approach in terms of playing vet centers above their capabilities or spends assets on real short term fixes.

Perhaps the org needs to reevaluate what it values in that position or expand their comfort zone. Sometimes you need to let a player show that your projections of them are incorrect.

Neither Copp or Roslovic are legit center options any more, and were never really anything above a 3rd line option. Copp has fallen off a cliff and Roslovic was a 4th line/PB guy during the playoffs for Carolina. Arniel has talked a few times about his preference for Perfetti at wing, the main point being he prefers Perfetti playing further up the ice in the D zone so he isn't chasing the play on breakouts. My takeaway is he doesn't believe Perfetti has the speed necessary to play center in the top 6.

 

[KingBogo]

3 MORE top 6 Cs, on top of the 1 we have?
Right now, I would be happy with 1 more. I'm optimistic for Yager. Not so much for Lambert. And Yager is still a couple of years away, at best.

I haven't completely given up on Perfetti yet, but agree it is unlikely.

I think that Samberg alone, or with a small add, should return a 2C, but I wouldn't trade him. Bird in the hand. I also wouldn't trade Salomonsson or Yager. All other futures would be available. Still probably doesn't get it done though.

Under no circumstances do you trade Samberg. He is a young top 4 D-man, who appears to be set to spend his career in Winnipeg. After Samberg our LHD depth is Stanley and Fleury. Much better to run names at #2 center than Stanley at #2 LHD.

 

[JetsFan815]

Moms of young Finnish kids are going to try to get them to behave when they are acting unruly by saying that if they keep misbehaving, they will be drafted by the Winnipeg Jets when they turn 18.

 

[surixon]

Neither Copp or Roslovic are legit center options any more, and were never really anything above a 3rd line option. Copp has fallen off a cliff and Roslovic was a 4th line/PB guy during the playoffs for Carolina. Arniel has talked a few times about his preference for Perfetti at wing, the main point being he prefers Perfetti playing further up the ice in the D zone so he isn't chasing the play on breakouts. My takeaway is he doesn't believe Perfetti has the speed necessary to play center in the top 6.

I'm not just talking about now. I'm talking about a consistent pattern going back years. Yes neither those two are an option now but I can't imagine any would have been worse than Eakin at 2C back in the day or needing to play Wheeler out of position.

Yes I get he doesn't think he's quick enough but this is the same org that didn't care about lack of footspeed in a center when they traded for and tried to reup Monohan. This the same org that tried to bring in a slower skating player than Perfetti in Henrique in the offseason for 2C.

So forgive me if I will label this org a bit hypocritical. They only selectively seem to care about that attribute.

 

[KingBogo]

I'm not just talking about now. I'm talking about a consistent pattern going back years. Yes neither those two are an option now but I can't imagine any would have been worse than Eakin at 2C back in the day or needing to play Wheeler out of position.

Yes I get he doesn't think he's quick enough but this is the same org that didn't care about lack of footspeed in a center when they traded for and tried to reup Monohan. This the same org that tried to bring in a slower skating player than Perfetti in Henrique in the offseason for 2C.

So forgive me if I will label this org a bit hypocritical. They only selectively seem to care about that attribute.

But we also seem to forget Chevy thought he had his #2 center in PLD, who played 3 seasons for us, and for the most part gave us #2 center numbers, even pushing Scheifele for #1 for a brief period. Almost every team struggles to find true centers as it is such a demanding position at the NHL level. Most coaches decide against sucking the offense out of top 6 wingers trying them at center, and instead keep looking for the guy who can check all the boxes.

 

[surixon]

But we also seem to forget Chevy thought he had his #2 center in PLD, who played 3 seasons for us, and for the most part gave us #2 center numbers, even pushing Scheifele for #1 for a brief period. Almost every team struggles to find true centers as it is such a demanding position at the NHL level. Most coaches decide against sucking the offense out of top 6 wingers trying them at center, and instead keep looking for the guy who can check all the boxes.

I get that but some of the times they could have tried Copp/Roslovic predated PLD. No argument that once they had PLD they could focus on Cole as a winger. But once he left they should have been coming up with a plan to try to get him back into the middle. It may not work but I don't see the harm in trying him for a 1/4 a season to see if he can. If he can't you move him back to wing. If he can then problem solved. There is no reward without a bit of risk and this org had been ultra conservative at the center position.

 

[KingBogo]

I get that but some of the times they could have tried Copp/Roslovic predated PLD. No argument that once they had PLD they could focus on Cole as a winger. But once he left they should have been coming up with a plan to try to get him back into the middle. It may not work but I don't see the harm in trying him for a 1/4 a season to see if he can. If he can't you move him back to wing. If he can then problem solved. There is no reward without a bit of risk and this org had been ultra conservative at the center position.

Seriously though do you really see Perfetti as the answer to the # 2 center position? He is coming off his best season, but it is still just a 50 point season. He is neither big or fast, but what he is very smart, creative with a high hockey IQ. Do you really want him to take on the center role that will take a physical toll and pull from his offence. I just don't think Perfetti checks enough of the boxes a coach wants from his centers.

 

[Jets 31]

Kupari had hands of stone, not a big loss at all. Maybe Chevy knows he's signing Toews and knew Kupari wasn't going to see the ice unless a bunch of injuries happen.

 

[KingBogo]

Kupari had hands of stone, not a big loss at all. Maybe Chevy knows he's signing Toews and knew Kupari wasn't going to see the ice unless a bunch of injuries happen.

My guess is Chevy was open to Kupari about his future option with the Jets, and left the door wide open for him to pursue what he wanted out of his hockey career.

 

[10Ducky10]

Kup probably just wants ice time, he wants to play. He wasn't going to get that here so he moved on.
It leaves room for Rash.

 

[PhilJets]

Jets still keep the right if he choose to return to the NHL , correct? Many things can happen in 2-3 years.

 

[surixon]

Seriously though do you really see Perfetti as the answer to the # 2 center position? He is coming off his best season, but it is still just a 50 point season. He is neither big or fast, but what he is very smart, creative with a high hockey IQ. Do you really want him to take on the center role that will take a physical toll and pull from his offence. I just don't think Perfetti checks enough of the boxes a coach wants from his centers.

I think he's the best internal option we have at the present time. If Chevy could go out and solve the issue externally that would be one thing but he hasn't been able to do so outside a brief 3 year window with Dubois. What are the other options outside of running it back with a center the Jets are clearly not comfortable using in that role in Namestnikov given they have or have tried to upgrade him at the deadline?

He's still young and still getting better. Also you make it sound like 50 points given his usage isn't good. 50 points while playing 2nd unit PP and 15 minutes a game is quite good. Also he was one of teams grittiest players and found the slot more times then any other player in the playoffs. Any questions about his size and his ability to handle physicality should have been put to rest. So we are down to only skating imo.

Also I'd imagine he's a better offensive player trailing the rush then leading it. Once set in the ozone he plays like a center anyhow so no difference there.

 

[sipowicz]

Great asset managment there Chevy!

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

I don't see Lambert as a centre if he is to make this team for the upcoming season it will probably be as a 3rd line winger replacing Apples.

That would put him in the role of a shut down line playing a lot of minutes against other teams best lines.
I doubt Lambert's first full time season in the NHL will be in that role.

 

[Weezeric]

I think he's the best internal option we have at the present time. If Chevy could go out and solve the issue externally that would be one thing but he hasn't been able to do so outside a brief 3 year window with Dubois. What are the other options outside of running it back with a center the Jets are clearly not comfortable using in that role in Namestnikov given they have or have tried to upgrade him at the deadline?

He's still young and still getting better. Also you make it sound like 50 points given his usage isn't good. 50 points while playing 2nd unit PP and 15 minutes a game is quite good. Also he was one of teams grittiest players and found the slot more times then any other player in the playoffs. Any questions about his size and his ability to handle physicality should have been put to rest. So we are down to only skating imo.

Also I'd imagine he's a better offensive player trailing the rush then leading it. Once set in the ozone he plays like a center anyhow so no difference there.

Perfetti was outscored 9-2 at 5v5 in the playoffs and had less points than Appleton both at 5v5 and overall. Is that type of performance really putting all doubts to rest?

 

[Gil Fisher]

It's on the first page

I'm just wondering if you take note of every time someone's two year-old opinion on a propsect was wrong?

 

[Huffer]

The other option is a reclamation project... I liked the idea of Josh Norris before he was dealt, and I'm still curious about Dach

You have to go into a deal like that hoping it'll be a homerun but expecting it not to be... and to pay accordingly

I think finding a reclamation project and hoping to find a gem is an option for sure. I was also wondering about Norries before he was dealt, but only from a perspective of a low cost to acquire and possibly some conditions on games played. I've seen the discussion on Dach lately and I'm not a huge fan myself.

Another option is to also look for a team that's possibly transitioning from a "now" team to a team looking to pivot for the future. You won't find a young guy, but more likely an older player on a larger contract (that might not be much "value") they might want to move for futures. Like say the Rangers feel like last year wasn't a blip and they wanted to re-tool. Then guys like Zib or Trocheck could be trade chips for them possibly.

The other option that is "usually" available is to find a team that is in a cap situation. Similar to how the Avs got Toews a few years ago. The problem with this option at the moment is that with the cap going up, not as many teams could be stuck like they have been in the past. "Maybe" a guy like Karlsson on the Knights if they want to make a splash somewhere else sort of thing. I'd love to somehow shake Cirelli out of TB, but that would be a tall order IMO.

 

[NA Hockey]

Perfetti was outscored 9-2 at 5v5 in the playoffs and had less points than Appleton both at 5v5 and overall. Is that type of performance really putting all doubts to rest?

Go do some research on a term called PDO. Cole's was lowest of any forward on the team by a large margin while Appleton had an unsustainably high PDO in the playoffs.

His was .867 while Appleton's was 1.037

Cole had the highest CF% of any player on the team at 58.33%
Cole had the second highest xGF% of any player at 57.04%
Cole had the highest SF% of any player on the team at 58.39%

So I would say that his playoff performance, big moment plays and underlying statistics, eye test and math say all doubts have been put to rest of whether he can be capable of being a difference maker going forward. All of this in the heaviest playoff series maybe of all time against St Louis.

 

[surixon]

Go do some research on a term called PDO. Cole's was lowest of any forward on the team by a large margin while Appleton had an unsustainably high PDO in the playoffs.

His was .867 while Appleton's was 1.037

Cole had the highest CF% of any player on the team at 58.33%
Cole had the second highest xGF% of any player at 57.04%
Cole had the highest SF% of any player on the team at 58.39%

So I would say that his playoff performance, big moment plays and underlying statistics, eye test and math say all doubts have been put to rest of whether he can be capable of being a difference maker going forward. All of this in the heaviest playoff series maybe of all time against St Louis.

Yup, he had horrendous puck luck in the playoffs. He keeps doing exactly what he did those playoffs moving forward and he will turn into a big time playoff performer as he gains more experience.

 

[Weezeric]

I think he's the best internal option we have at the present time. If Chevy could go out and solve the issue externally that would be one thing but he hasn't been able to do so outside a brief 3 year window with Dubois. What are the other options outside of running it back with a center the Jets are clearly not comfortable using in that role in Namestnikov given they have or have tried to upgrade him at the deadline?

He's still young and still getting better. Also you make it sound like 50 points given his usage isn't good. 50 points while playing 2nd unit PP and 15 minutes a game is quite good. Also he was one of teams grittiest players and found the slot more times then any other player in the playoffs. Any questions about his size and his ability to handle physicality should have been put to rest. So we are down to only skating imo.

Also I'd imagine he's a better offensive player trailing the rush then leading it. Once set in the ozone he plays like a center anyhow so no difference there.

Perfetti was outscored 9-2 at 5v5 in the playoffs and had less points than Appleton both at 5v5 and overall. Is that type of performance really putting all doubts to rest?

Go do some research on a term called PDO. Cole's was lowest of any forward on the team by a large margin while Appleton had an unsustainably high PDO in the playoffs.

His was .867 while Appleton's was 1.037

Cole had the highest CF% of any player on the team at 58.33%
Cole had the second highest xGF% of any player at 57.04%
Cole had the highest SF% of any player on the team at 58.39%

So I would say that his playoff performance, big moment plays and underlying statistics, eye test and math say all doubts have been put to rest of whether he can be capable of being a difference maker going forward. All of this in the heaviest playoff series maybe of all time against St Louis.

Everything you just said about Perfetti in the playoffs is also true about Logan Stanley. Would you say that Stanley had a great playoff?