Rantanen vs Necas points race to end of season.

[JoeSakic13]

Secondary assist on empty net merchant

 

[Zirakzigil]

Secondary assist on empty net merchant

We talking about Rantanen or Hutson?

 

[pekka55]

I actually feel bad for Rants. Seems like a big kid who went through the shock of being traded twice and trying to comprehend and adjust. I hope he does well, just not against the Avs.

Sure, but at the same time if you're a professional hockey player and you're not mentally prepared for the fact that at some point you might be traded to another team then you've done something wrong.

 

[bleedthenorth]

is Rants cooked?

 

[Azzuri]

Someone bump the same threads made about Pavelski after coming to Dallas.

It takes guys time to adjust to a new home. Chill

 

[Coffee]

@TheStatican Hall doing well

 

[Kcb12345]

is Rants cooked?

He was great last night. Points aren't flying in yet but it's only a matter of time

 

[jalapenoWithAnH]

Many people keep mentioning MacKinnon as one big reason for Rantanen's high point production in the Avs. But if Rantanen was a top 10 player ppg-wise for the past two seasons or so mainly because of MacKinnon (and Makar) then why couldn't Hyman and Nugent-Hopkins achieve a similar feat since playing hundreds of games with McDavid and Draisaitl?

Hyman in Edmonton:

Regular season: 299 gp 256 p (0.855 ppg)
Playoffs: 85 gp 62 p (0.72 ppg)

Nugent-Hopkins in Edmonton after 2015:

Regular season: 692 gp 559 p (0.807 ppg)
Playoffs: 74 gp 61 p (0.82 ppg)

Rantanen in Colorado:

Regular season: 619 gp 681 p (1.1 ppg)
Playoffs 81 gp 101 p (1.24 ppg)

 

[Oilslick941611]

Many people keep mentioning MacKinnon as one big reason for Rantanen's high point production in the Avs. But if Rantanen was a top 10 player ppg-wise for the past two seasons or so mainly because of MacKinnon (and Makar) then why couldn't Hyman and Nugent-Hopkins achieve a similar feat since playing hundreds of games with McDavid and Draisaitl?

Hyman in Edmonton:

Regular season: 299 gp 256 p (0.855 ppg)
Playoffs: 85 gp 62 p (0.72 ppg)

Nugent-Hopkins in Edmonton after 2015:

Regular season: 692 gp 559 p (0.807 ppg)
Playoffs: 74 gp 61 p (0.82 ppg)

Rantanen in Colorado:

Regular season: 619 gp 681 p (1.1 ppg)
Playoffs 81 gp 101 p (1.24 ppg)

are you really asking this?

Some player click with other players better, stylistic differences and a better baseline of talent...

We also have a massive drop off in points with Rantanen since being away from MacK. Either hes the type of the player that gives up when he doesn't get his way, and his only good when everything is roses, or MacK inflated his point totals. Both can be true, or one, in the end it doesn't matter, the games speak from themselves. Its not like he was traded to Chicago or SJ, Dude has played on 3 contenders this year and only produced for one of them.

 

[jalapenoWithAnH]

Some player click with other players better, stylistic differences and a better baseline of talent...

Same applies to teams also which is the point that some people are missing here when it's about adjusting to a new team after playing 10 years in another...

Either hes the type of the player that gives up when he doesn't get his way, and his only good when everything is roses, or MacK inflated his point totals.

Or this is just a phase that is normal after all he has been through this year. Deboer said it took Pavelski almost a year to look comfortable on the ice in Dallas after the trade from San Jose.

If you want to go by just a small number of games then I guess Necas is worse off with MacKinnon as his point production has dropped to 0,9 ppg when earlier this season in Carolina it was 1,1.

I'd wait until next seasons until making any definitive conclusions.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Same applies to teams also which is the point that some people are missing here when it's about adjusting to a new team after playing 10 years in another...



Or this is just a phase that is normal after all he has been through this year. Deboer said it took Pavelski almost a year to look comfortable on the ice in Dallas after the trade from San Jose.

If you want to go by just a small number of games then I guess Necas is worse off with MacKinnon as his point production has dropped to 0,9 ppg when earlier this season in Carolina it was 1,1.

I'd wait until next seasons until making any definitive conclusions.

maybe, its true a lot of TDL players dont really have impact.

After training camp, who know what happens.

 

[blankall]

It's beginning to look like Rantanen overplayed his hand with contract negotiations. He likely should have taken what Carolina was offering. I really hope the Flames don't throw a huge contract at him.

Rantanen will likely need a huge playoffs to salvage this.

Edit: yes i do need more sleep, I forgot he signed in Dallas.

 

[tfwnogf]

Many people keep mentioning MacKinnon as one big reason for Rantanen's high point production in the Avs. But if Rantanen was a top 10 player ppg-wise for the past two seasons or so mainly because of MacKinnon (and Makar) then why couldn't Hyman and Nugent-Hopkins achieve a similar feat since playing hundreds of games with McDavid and Draisaitl?

Hyman in Edmonton:

Regular season: 299 gp 256 p (0.855 ppg)
Playoffs: 85 gp 62 p (0.72 ppg)

Nugent-Hopkins in Edmonton after 2015:

Regular season: 692 gp 559 p (0.807 ppg)
Playoffs: 74 gp 61 p (0.82 ppg)

Rantanen in Colorado:

Regular season: 619 gp 681 p (1.1 ppg)
Playoffs 81 gp 101 p (1.24 ppg)

cause Ranta has more natural talent than those two. What kind of comparison is that lmao. Neither Hyman nor Nuge are ever going to make 12 mil a year. Ranta's comparables are the highest paid players in the league.

 

[Jixer19]

It's beginning to look like Rantanen overplayed his hand with contract negotiations. He likely should have taken what Carolina was offering. I really hope the Flames don't throw a huge contract at him.

Rantanen will likely need a huge playoffs to salvage this.

You do know he signed for 8 years in Dallas yes?

 

[flyfysher]

Same applies to teams also which is the point that some people are missing here when it's about adjusting to a new team after playing 10 years in another...



Or this is just a phase that is normal after all he has been through this year. Deboer said it took Pavelski almost a year to look comfortable on the ice in Dallas after the trade from San Jose.

If you want to go by just a small number of games then I guess Necas is worse off with MacKinnon as his point production has dropped to 0,9 ppg when earlier this season in Carolina it was 1,1.

I'd wait until next seasons until making any definitive conclusions.

I’m pretty sure most people believe Rants will eventually pick up his scoring again. I’d venture further and say most don’t think he’ll be a regular 100 + point winger. He’s certainly capable of it because he’s done it before. But as you noted, I think his high scoring was as much a product of the system he was under and the style of play in Colorado. Players get inflated production when they come to the Avs.

Bluntly, I’m just as focused how players fit on my team as their production. So for Necas, I won’t mind his point production dropping from 1.1 to 0.9 while Bednar tries him out either Nelson and Lehkonen. In the Avs system, versatility is a key feature. Because being able to roll four productive lines is vital to a PO team seeking to win the SC. So how do these players ‘fit’ with other players given the system and style of play. Do his linemates mesh well and what is his effect on their production? In Necas’ case, he’s a play driver and moves his feet. Something Rants did not do for the Avs the last couple of seasons.

We’ve got the next 8 years to see how well Rants does in Dallas. Until then, you might as well get used to the critiques because they’re going to happen anyway.

BTW, of the players that moved, Jankowski, Stankhoven, Hall, Necas and Drury have shown they are great fits for their teams so far. I’ll leave it to you to give the assessment on Rants.

 

[Oilslick941611]

It's beginning to look like Rantanen overplayed his hand with contract negotiations. He likely should have taken what Carolina was offering. I really hope the Flames don't throw a huge contract at him.

Rantanen will likely need a huge playoffs to salvage this.

He signed in Dallas. He isn't a UFA. No one but Dallas needs to worry about wasting cap space on him.

 

[jalapenoWithAnH]

cause Ranta has more natural talent than those two. What kind of comparison is that lmao. Neither Hyman nor Nuge are ever going to make 12 mil a year. Ranta's comparables are the highest paid players in the league.

Well that is my point exactly. Some people make it seem like anyone would have 1 ppg with MacKinnon.

 

[tfwnogf]

Well that is my point exactly. Some people make it seem like anyone would have 1 ppg with MacKinnon.

I mean Nuge got 100 points and Hyman 50 goals with McDrai, and they make less combined than Ranta. Does that mean they are a better player, or would do better with Mackinnon? No. But they are bumped up from playing with superstars, as was Ranta. Is he a 50 goal/50 assist guy? Maybe, maybe not. But he's probably closer to 40 goal/40 assist without Mackinnon/Makar. It is what it is. Time will tell if he flourishes in Dallas, or becomes the next Pettersson/Huberdeau of overpaid forwards.

 

[Oilslick941611]

I mean Nuge got 100 points and Hyman 50 goals with McDrai, and they make less combined than Ranta. Doesn't mean they are a better player, or would do better with Mackinnon? No. But they are bumped up from playing with superstars, as was Ranta. Is he a 50 goal/50 assist guy? Maybe, maybe not. But he's probably closer to 40 goal/40 assist without Mackinnon/Makar. It is what it is. Time will tell if he flourishes in Dallas, or becomes the next Pettersson/Huberdeau of overpaid forwards.

and all those juicy EN points he got in Colorado. Those probably dont exist in Dallas.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Same applies to teams also which is the point that some people are missing here when it's about adjusting to a new team after playing 10 years in another...



Or this is just a phase that is normal after all he has been through this year. Deboer said it took Pavelski almost a year to look comfortable on the ice in Dallas after the trade from San Jose.

If you want to go by just a small number of games then I guess Necas is worse off with MacKinnon as his point production has dropped to 0,9 ppg when earlier this season in Carolina it was 1,1.

I'd wait until next seasons until making any definitive conclusions.

This just continues to reinforce the point about him not driving his line.

Pavelski, at least by the time he got to the Stars, was a $5M-7M player on short contracts, notable for his skill at tipping pucks in front of the net. Dallas didn’t need or ask him to be the centerpiece of the offense. Rantanen is a $12M player locked in for 8 years. Is he really such a system player that he can’t change linemates without forgetting how to shoot a puck into the net?

Taking a couple of weeks to get settled and back to work is understandable, but still dealing with this after 2 months is a lot harder to explain.

- He’s on a six-game goalless streak and has 4 in his last 27 games (a 12 goal pace!) going all the way back to Colorado.​

- His last primary assist was on March 1st, for Carolina.​

This is a guy who had 42-62-104 last year. The nets have not changed size. He has not been injured as far as we know. He is not on a worse team. “Adjusting” simply doesn’t explain it.

Relative to most Canes fans I’m not holding hard feelings toward the guy. I would like to see him succeed in Dallas. But this is shocking to watch and 100% on Rantanen to figure out unless he wants this contract bought out.

 

[flyfysher]

This just continues to reinforce the point about him not driving his line.

Pavelski, at least by the time he got to the Stars, was a $5M-7M player on short contracts, notable for his skill at tipping pucks in front of the net. Dallas didn’t need or ask him to be the centerpiece of the offense. Rantanen is a $12M player locked in for 8 years. Is he really such a system player that he can’t change linemates without forgetting how to shoot a puck into the net?

Taking a couple of weeks to get settled and back to work is understandable, but still dealing with this after 2 months is a lot harder to explain.

- He’s on a six-game goalless streak and has 4 in his last 27 games (a 12 goal pace!) going all the way back to Colorado.​

- His last primary assist was on March 1st, for Carolina.​

This is a guy who had 42-62-104 last year. The nets have not changed size. He has not been injured as far as we know. He is not on a worse team. “Adjusting” simply doesn’t explain it.

Relative to most Canes fans I’m not holding hard feelings toward the guy. I would like to see him succeed in Dallas. But this is shocking to watch and 100% on Rantanen to figure out unless he wants this contract bought out.

I can understand if Rants isn’t great for the rest of the RS and POs. But next season should be telling. Given Rants’ skill, you’d think he’ll eventually pick up his game scoring wise. But the Stars need to have the right scheme for feeding Rants pucks besides ENGs.

 

[jalapenoWithAnH]

This just continues to reinforce the point about him not driving his line.

Pavelski, at least by the time he got to the Stars, was a $5M-7M player on short contracts, notable for his skill at tipping pucks in front of the net. Dallas didn’t need or ask him to be the centerpiece of the offense. Rantanen is a $12M player locked in for 8 years. Is he really such a system player that he can’t change linemates without forgetting how to shoot a puck into the net?

Taking a couple of weeks to get settled and back to work is understandable, but still dealing with this after 2 months is a lot harder to explain.

- He’s on a six-game goalless streak and has 4 in his last 27 games (a 12 goal pace!) going all the way back to Colorado.​

- His last primary assist was on March 1st, for Carolina.​

This is a guy who had 42-62-104 last year. The nets have not changed size. He has not been injured as far as we know. He is not on a worse team. “Adjusting” simply doesn’t explain it.

Relative to most Canes fans I’m not holding hard feelings toward the guy. I would like to see him succeed in Dallas. But this is shocking to watch and 100% on Rantanen to figure out unless he wants this contract bought out.

I can understand why you would think that adjusting doesn't explain it.

I don't really understand it either since I havent followed Rantanen that closely before this season. But if you look at his stats without MacKinnon in about 50 or so games in the Avs he had over 1 ppg, on national senior level he has 1ppg in tournaments. He had over 1ppg in AHL. He was voted as the most valuable player in u18 Liiga playoffs.

So judging by his history I think it's more likely that the issue is psychological. One thing that hasn't been brought up is that Rantanen is Finnish and as a Finn I know that Finns dont like being the center of attention. Finns are introverted and agreeable mostly because our history as a pawn to superpowers. We are natural defenders (hence the name of our military: Defense Forces), not natural forwards. It's easier for Heiskanen to be a leading defender than for Rantanen to be a leading forward. Much more pressure in the latter and it's not exactly a role where Finns excel.

So I don't necessarily think the biggest change is the fact that he doesn't have MacK's level of player in his line/team, but rather it is the fact that Rantanen has to adapt to a new role as the highest payed player in the team. In the Avs he was the third best player but now he has to adapt to being the best. Granted he was the one who agreed to being payed as much, but who wouldnt lol.

But time will tell how this plays out. I just think the change of roles is a huge factor psychologically for a player like Rantanen. Granlund has it much easier as people wont expect as much from him.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I can understand if Rants isn’t great for the rest of the RS and POs. But next season should be telling. Given Rants’ skill, you’d think he’ll eventually pick up his game scoring wise. But the Stars need to have the right scheme for feeding Rants pucks besides ENGs.

I can understand if he isn’t great, but he has to be a lot better than this or Huberdeau comparisons become legit in a hurry. That’s another guy who “found his game” after a year or so, and it turned out his game is actually being a 55-point guy when he’s not on a line with superstars.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Well that is my point exactly. Some people make it seem like anyone would have 1 ppg with MacKinnon.

Maybe not a 1 PPG, but it's pretty hard to argue that playing with McKinnon and Makar doesn't artificially inflate a player's point totals. Lehkonen played 6 seasons with Montreal and was lucky to be a .5 PPG. Since joining Colorado, he's had 134 points in 183 games (if I've done my math correctly).

Even within your team, there's a noticeable difference between playing with those two and not. If I'm not mistaken, Brock Nelson has taken Necas' spot on that top line since the deadline. And while Necas is still maintaining his point totals, he's getting less at even strength and more on the PP, no?

It's not a knock against any of these players, but it's hard to deny that playing with a top 3 forward and the best defenseman in the league would likely earn one more points than if they weren't.

 

[tarheelhockey]

And while Necas is still maintaining his point totals, he's getting less at even strength and more on the PP, no?

I’m not sure when that change took place, but Necas has 3 points in his last 6 games — only 1 at even strength.