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Rantanen vs Necas points race to end of season.

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Freaky Styley said:
I got flamed hard by Avs fans for the past calendar year and Canes/other fans around the league at the time of the trade by calling Rantanen a passenger regardless of point totals.

People need to stop being blinded by production. I get it's important but it's also very situation-dependent. And when you have guys that are one-dimensional and don't carry their own line you need to be careful when it comes to contract time. Off-ice issues aside, I would take Nichuskin 10/10 over Rantanen at the same pay grade. Just impacts all other facets of the game.

I'm not sure what happened, but post-Cup Moose just hasn't been the same player. Maybe he lost a step or lost some drive, but he has all the talent to be THE guy. We'll see how he performs in the playoffs and if an off-season reset can reignite something for the Stars. I'm certainly not writing him off but this has been a 2 year trend.
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Nishushkin is the one worth $10million a year. Ferocious checker, never takes a second off, always back on D to back check. Create so much on offense. I dont think there's any Avs fan that would give him up over Rantanen.
 
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flyfysher said:
The Stars forum is trying to figure out which C to play Rants with in order to get him going. He’s an elite finisher, no doubt. But Rants’ scoring in CO just highlights Mack’s true value. Mack makes the players around him better. I like Rants so I wish him success except against the Avs. But if his scoring and play don’t rebound in Dallas then that $12+M 8 year contract is not going to age well and his popularity will likely suffer with the fan base there.
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Would you say he’s “Messin’” with Texas?
 
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tarheelhockey said:
A little off topic, but that really oversimplifies the relationship between Leclair and Lindros.

They first started to get de-linked in 1999-00, when Lindros started missing a lot of time with accumulated concussions, and over half of Leclair’s goals that year were connected to other players — primarily Recchi and Gagne. Bear in mind this was his 30 y/o season, so he was
My on-topic contribution — $12 million players should be able to drive a line and not need to be paired with a specific player to produce. Rantanen needs to get his head out of his ass and play better hockey, straight up.
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tarheelhockey said:
A little off topic, but that really oversimplifies the relationship between Leclair and Lindros.

They first started to get de-linked in 1999-00, when Lindros started missing a lot of time with accumulated concussions, and over half of Leclair’s goals that year were connected to other players — primarily Recchi and Gagne. Bear in mind this was his 30 y/o season, so he was naturally going to slow down regardless of what Lindros did.

The following season, Lindros left the team. Leclair was quite good with 7 goals in 16 games, but missed the rest of the season with back problems.

After that, yes he scored 25 goals but we are deep in the DPE by then… 25 was second best on a good Flyers team. As points of comparison, he was in the same scoring range as similar-aged Fleury, Holik, Mogilny. He comes back the next season and pots 18 goals in 35 games, but again gets cut short with a shoulder injury. By the following year we are heading into the lockout, he’s 34 years old, he’s still a top-line goal scorer but come on we’re no longer expecting superstardom from him at that point with his accumulated injuries.

This is just to say, Leclair was much better than an average player post-Lindros. But he was also moving into his mid-30s and dealing with large injuries. He was still a 30-goal type player during the DPE when 30 goals was a lot more meaningful than it is now. There were only about 30 guys in the league doing that at the time.

My on-topic contribution — $12 million players should be able to drive a line and not need to be paired with a specific player to produce. Rantanen needs to get his head out of his ass and play better hockey, straight up.
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Your last paragraph is why many Avs fans were willing to trade Rants last summer, even before. You cannot pay that much for a player that doesn't drive his own line.

He has done so a few years ago but failed to do that for at least two years.
 
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I don't disagree with how he's not driving the play in the Canes and in Dallas. With that in mind, however, didn't he perform well back when Mack was hurt and Rantanen was centering his own line? Was it because he had to wear another hat instead of just doing a minor tweak in his game? Or was what he showed unsustainable at a longer time period, or something else?
 
Calderon said:
I don't disagree with how he's not driving the play in the Canes and in Dallas. With that in mind, however, didn't he perform well back when Mack was hurt and Rantanen was centering his own line? Was it because he had to wear another hat instead of just doing a minor tweak in his game? Or was what he showed unsustainable at a longer time period, or something else?
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Mikko pre cup was basically a different person/player. Had some great showings that he could drive his own line away from Mack. Many people forget/don't know, that during their cup run, he was with Kadri a lot more than Mack at 5v5. Although Mikko still had his lackadaisical play at times pre cup, he was able to keep these times to a minimum.

Post cup, his lackadaisical nature has just become more evident. A lot more looking for shortcuts, rather than asserting his strengths. Not only is this showing in games, but comments from Ismo Lekhonen may point to this lackadaisical nature carries over from the work he puts in during the off season.

We will see how next season goes. Essentially, it could be that Mikko just got lazy and too comfortable being the 3rd best player on a team, even though he has the talent to be the best player on a team. Maybe he never reaches the point heights he did in Colorado (general aging curves show that he's past his point producing peaks), but maybe he can at least get to a spot again where he can again take over a game like he could before the Avs cup.
 
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Jankowski has 50% more goals since being acquired by the Canes on March 7th (6) than Rantanen has scored with either the Canes or Dallas (4) since the original trade in January.

Maybe the issue wasn't the Canes, it was a guy completely unwilling to even try to care about playing for the team. And ask anyone around the Canes, there is a noticeable difference in play by the team since the trade with Dallas.
 
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Calderon said:
I don't disagree with how he's not driving the play in the Canes and in Dallas. With that in mind, however, didn't he perform well back when Mack was hurt and Rantanen was centering his own line? Was it because he had to wear another hat instead of just doing a minor tweak in his game? Or was what he showed unsustainable at a longer time period, or something else?
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He did perform well for periods when Mac was hurt for 10-20 games a few years back… He also got to play with Makar, nichushkin, Landeskog, and Kadri and Toews when Mack was out. The year they won the cup, kadri paced for 100 pts and the Avs had two defensemen playing at nearly ppg. A high end beer leaguer could have put up points on those Avs teams.

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Avs2022 said:
Nishushkin is the one worth $10million a year. Ferocious checker, never takes a second off, always back on D to back check. Create so much on offense. I dont think there's any Avs fan that would give him up over Rantanen.
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Based on Nichushkin's recent post-seasons, I'd say he certainly does take some shifts/games off, to put it lightly.

One mistake away from being out of the league forever
 
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Kcb12345 said:
Based on Nichushkin's recent post-seasons, I'd say he certainly does take some shifts/games off, to put it lightly.

One mistake away from being out of the league forever
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True though he’s probably the Avs third most important forward. I thought he was more valuable to the Avs than Rants and that was before the trade. And he was out injured this year for a lengthy period of time.
 
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blundluntman said:
The ghosts of Joey Hishon and Tyson Jost still haunt the Ball Arena to this day some say
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Hishon was never the same after the concussion he got from McNabb’s hit in the Memorial Cup after being drafted.

I always feel that’s overlooked in his career retro. Could have still been a bust, but that hit really derailed his career.
 
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flyfysher said:
True though he’s probably the Avs third most important forward. I thought he was more valuable to the Avs than Rants and that was before the trade. And he was out injured this year for a lengthy period of time.
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I agree. I'm not sure how reliable statmuse is but according to this site Avs are 24-8-1 with Nuke in the lineup and 19-17-2 without. Probably close to similar if we add last year too. Pretty significant I would say !
 
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