Rantanen vs Necas points race to end of season.

[Boxscore]

I expect his point totals here to be around 85-95 at his best.

This is definitely "at his best" and that may be reaching, just my opinion. Watching him in Carolina and in Dallas (so far)... he looks like a completely different player than the one he was in Colorado. I can't believe I'm saying this -- because I'm a huge fan of Moose personally -- but I honestly think he has made both the Canes and Stars slightly worse. It seems as if both teams are forcing things and dumbing things down to "fit him" instead of him fitting their teams. In both cities, he's looked extra slow, sluggish, moody, and easily frustrated.

Part of it is also due to what each of those teams gave up to get him. Necas was playing damn good hockey for the Canes... and Stankoven was a great fit in Dallas and the type of player who knew his role, brought tons of energy and versatility... and had his moments of scoring key goals.

Tbh, I think this season will end terribly for Rantanen. And my hope is that he takes some time this summer to clear his head, get settled in Dallas, and come to camp next year in top shape with a healthy Heiskanen and other teammates.

 

[flyfysher]

Well that would be a ridiculously stupid comparison considering one was a 21 year old non-arbitration eligible RFA coming off his ELC and the other was a UFA-to-be.


Obviously there's only one MacKinnon, the point is to try him with someone stylistically similar to MacKinnon...

Really? How balanced is your team’s salary structure line by line? I mean if you’re bumping Mikko to third line to get him going then I’m guessing that’ll be the most expensive third-liner in the history of the NHL. And if you pair him up with Duchene, is extending Duchene part of the Stars’ long term plans?

 

[a mangy Meowth]

is extending Duchene part of the Stars’ long term plans?

Sounds like it is

 

[Boxscore]

I mean if you’re bumping Mikko to third line to get him going then I’m guessing that’ll be the most expensive third-liner in the history of the NHL.

This appears to be the tricky thing with Rantanen. Moose has always reminded me of John LeClair... big, strong, great hands, and the perfect compliment to a superstar centerman. Unfortunately, watching Rantanen closely since the trade, he reminds me of John LeClair when he was no longer attached to the hip of Eric Lindros...

LeClair went from a 40-50 goal, 90+ point player to a 20-25 goal, 50 point player overnight. LeClair was "pretty good" in Montreal before his magic with Lindros and very average post-Lindros. I think some players simply have perfect chemistry with another player, line, or team... but that magic isn't sustainable in a different setting. Is Rantanen in that category? We'll know for sure next season, imho.

The thing is, he's getting 12 mil for the next 8 years, so he needs to be a 35g/50a/85pt. player at the absolute worst to even justify that contract.

 

[tarheelhockey]

This appears to be the tricky thing with Rantanen. Moose has always reminded me of John LeClair... big, strong, great hands, and the perfect compliment to a superstar centerman. Unfortunately, watching Rantanen closely since the trade, he reminds me of John LeClair when he was no longer attached to the hip of Eric Lindros...

LeClair went from a 40-50 goal, 90+ point player to a 20-25 goal, 50 point player overnight. LeClair was "pretty good" in Montreal before his magic with Lindros and very average post-Lindros. I think some players simply have perfect chemistry with another player, line, or team... but that magic isn't sustainable in a different setting. Is Rantanen in that category? We'll know for sure next season, imho.

The thing is, he's getting 12 mil for the next 8 years, so he needs to be a 35g/50a/85pt. player at the absolute worst to even justify that contract.

A little off topic, but that really oversimplifies the relationship between Leclair and Lindros.

They first started to get de-linked in 1999-00, when Lindros started missing a lot of time with accumulated concussions, and over half of Leclair’s goals that year were connected to other players — primarily Recchi and Gagne. Bear in mind this was his 30 y/o season, so he was naturally going to slow down regardless of what Lindros did.

The following season, Lindros left the team. Leclair was quite good with 7 goals in 16 games, but missed the rest of the season with back problems.

After that, yes he scored 25 goals but we are deep in the DPE by then… 25 was second best on a good Flyers team. As points of comparison, he was in the same scoring range as similar-aged Fleury, Holik, Mogilny. He comes back the next season and pots 18 goals in 35 games, but again gets cut short with a shoulder injury. By the following year we are heading into the lockout, he’s 34 years old, he’s still a top-line goal scorer but come on we’re no longer expecting superstardom from him at that point with his accumulated injuries.

This is just to say, Leclair was much better than an average player post-Lindros. But he was also moving into his mid-30s and dealing with large injuries. He was still a 30-goal type player during the DPE when 30 goals was a lot more meaningful than it is now. There were only about 30 guys in the league doing that at the time.

My on-topic contribution — $12 million players should be able to drive a line and not need to be paired with a specific player to produce. Rantanen needs to get his head out of his ass and play better hockey, straight up.

 

[Boxscore]

^ There are some valid points about LeClair. Yes, he was turning 30, but he was a late(ish) bloomer, was fairly durable, and was never the same player before or after playing with prime Lindros. Even stylistically, Rantanen always reminded me of Johnny... big, strong, but not overly physical... but he is a moose down low and blessed with awesome mitts. Also, like LeClair, I never felt he could "carry a team or line" be it in Montreal or Philly. In other words -- LeClair like Rantanen are the perfect Robin to a Lindros and MacKinnon Batman, but they were/are not built to be the alpha on the team... even though they are star players.

Some guys are just tailor-made for the right situation and aren't nearly effective outside of that perfect situation. I'm afraid Rants might be one of them. This is two teams now where his production is average... and he's played with some decent talent in both cities. Aho, Svechnikov, Jarvis, Ghost, Burns, Hintz, Robertson, Johnston, Harley, etc. aren't chopped liver. Rants was/is expected to elevate them... not the opposite, if we're being honest.

 

[flyfysher]

My on-topic contribution — $12 million players should be able to drive a line and not need to be paired with a specific player to produce. Rantanen needs to get his head out of his ass and play better hockey, straight up.

Love Rants but his case highlights MacKinnon’s value in making his linemates excel at production under the Avs system which allows offensively gifted players to flourish. That’s why it’s hard for other teams to replicate. To top that off, Rants became a passenger in CO. You need to bring a lot more to the table to justify a $12M contract.

 

[the_fan]

Leafs will gladly trade for Rantanen if it doesn’t work out in Dallas

 

[pekka55]

I've been a fan of Rantanen for a long time. He just doesn't seem to be the same player anymore. It's completely pointless to pay a player 12 mil if he cannot drive his own line, but needs a "perfect match" center to drive the play of the line.

He probably will figure it out in Dallas and become a ppg player there, but is that enough for 12 mil?

 

[JLo217]

Hasn't looked that great, definitely still trying to figure things out though. Better effort tonight, but the chemistry isn't there at all and the whole team has been playing terribly as of late offensively. You can see him getting visibly frustrated out there a lot. Definitely a big learning curve happening for him

He has no chemistry at all with Robertson and Hintz either but coaching staff is trying to force it. Duchene is the obvious fit with him and he almost had an assist to Duchene today but they reviewed and said no goal. They're also trying too hard to force things to Rantanen on the PP and teams are easily reading it.

He's been unlucky with his finishing though to be fair. Dangerous opportunity or 2 every night even if he's not having a noticeable game

I honestly think it'll take a while for him to get settled. Granlund just recently got settled in. Took Pavelski a full season when he first got here

This close to an assist today off a great feed to Duchene:

This is what Canes fans said too. Rants isn’t what he appears anymore. The Mack factor was real.

 

[koyvoo]

Rants playing at a 40 point pace since leaving Denver.

First couple of games with Dallas were productive, but he’s been cheese since then.

 

[S E P H]

The more Rantanen plays away from Avs system/tactics, the more Ismo looks to be right.

 

[22FUTON9]

I haven’t watched every dallas game since the trade, but I actually think he’s making more plays than he was in colorado. Just him/his teammates not finishing.

I’m sure it’s already been mentioned, but Rantanen in his last couple of years in colorado started to become more of a finisher with great passing abilities, rather than someone who drives play

 

[Cloned]

It boggles the mind that after seeing Carolina regret their trade heavily, Dallas decided “we can fix him” and partly bailed the Hurricanes out whilst simultaneously locking themselves in to what appears to be a disaster.

 

[the valiant effort]

Stankoven and Jankowski, are they still the GOAT deadline acquisitions?

 

[S E P H]

Mikko is playing with the wrong center. Until the staff figures that out I don't think he's going to be putting up elite numbers. Rantanen should be playing with Duchene, at the very least with Wyatt. Duchene likes to drive the line and would work well with Rantanen who is as it his best when he can play without the puck and set up for a one timer or tip.

Robo and Hintz work as a pair. The 3rd player on that line isn't as important. Right now they are too busy trying to force their shiny new toy instead of just playing their two man game.

If you're paying a bloke 12 million dollars per year, you want somebody who is more than a complementary player...even as a winger. Mikko definitely has the talent and has played large portions of his career as a catalyst player, but for the last two to three years, he's been a pedestrian. That is why most Av fans didn't mind that he was traded.

 

[Breakers]

It is funny how he produces well above point per game in Colorado for the last 5 seasons

Leaves and BLEH

 

[JLo217]

This is definitely "at his best" and that may be reaching, just my opinion. Watching him in Carolina and in Dallas (so far)... he looks like a completely different player than the one he was in Colorado. I can't believe I'm saying this -- because I'm a huge fan of Moose personally -- but I honestly think he has made both the Canes and Stars slightly worse. It seems as if both teams are forcing things and dumbing things down to "fit him" instead of him fitting their teams. In both cities, he's looked extra slow, sluggish, moody, and easily frustrated.

Part of it is also due to what each of those teams gave up to get him. Necas was playing damn good hockey for the Canes... and Stankoven was a great fit in Dallas and the type of player who knew his role, brought tons of energy and versatility... and had his moments of scoring key goals.

Tbh, I think this season will end terribly for Rantanen. And my hope is that he takes some time this summer to clear his head, get settled in Dallas, and come to camp next year in top shape with a healthy Heiskanen and other teammates.

He’s done this for 2 years in Co.

 

[Coffey]

Has he disproven my “Product of Mack” claims yet?

 

[Kcb12345]

I haven’t watched every dallas game since the trade, but I actually think he’s making more plays than he was in colorado. Just him/his teammates not finishing.

I’m sure it’s already been mentioned, but Rantanen in his last couple of years in colorado started to become more of a finisher with great passing abilities, rather than someone who drives play

He was exceptional in that first game with Dallas vs Edmonton. Probably could've/should've left that one with 4 points alone. It was nice to see he was capable of that level of play/being able to drive play like that still. That was probably better than he looked in any of his Carolina games

We haven't seen that level from him consistently since then, but like most of the team he's pretty unlucky right now/not clicking with his linemates.

I mentioned it earlier but his current line is not a fit for him. He and Robertson should not be on the same line. Duchene should be his center but coaches definitely want it to be Hintz (who forces every pass to Rantanen it's getting ridiculous). That trio with him, Robertson, and Hintz has not generated much.

I definitely don't expect him to be a play driver though, or if he is going to be one he will need to adjust his game. At $12m thats not ideal obviously but hopefully he can just be the pure goal scorer we need. A few big playoff goals could more than make up for that extra few mil a year that's probably more than he's worth

You can still see him looking around for someone with speed to hand the puck off to in the neutral zone as if MacKinnon is still on the ice with him though lol.

 

[PAZ]

It boggles the mind that after seeing Carolina regret their trade heavily, Dallas decided “we can fix him” and partly bailed the Hurricanes out whilst simultaneously locking themselves in to what appears to be a disaster.

You have a 600+ game sample size on Rants, it' understandable Dallas thought that he was just a poor fit in Carolina. I personally think it's less mind boggling than Detroit having to pay a 2nd to dump Walman to Edmonton paying a 1st after 50 games.

The two golden rules of this league is 'historical production pays' and 'what have you done for me lately'. Which funnily enough contradict each other, but still makes sense. But as other Avs fans have said, he's been pretty average outside of putting up points in Colorado for awhile now.

I still think Rants can rebound, but he needs to look at himself in the mirror and realize he needs to be better than 'good enough' to put up points on other teams.

 

[Ratbath]

People are always in such a hurry to tell you how dumb they are. Everything has to be a disaster or a transcendent triumph instantly.

 

[BigTomBomber]

People are always in such a hurry to tell you how dumb they are. Everything has to be a disaster or a transcendent triumph instantly.

i just don’t see him being a pt/gm player for his 8 years in Dallas. Just as Benn’s albatross was ending (and nearing the end of Seguin’s), they sign another deal thats seriously going to affect the team in the next 2-3 years. Not sure if hitching your wagon to Rantanen was the prudent move (and i hope im wrong)

Granlund leaves, I dont see Duchene re-signing (no cap) and can easily see a ~$2.5m x 3 offer sheet for Bourque that Dallas cant afford to match without dumping Marchment. The $12m severly limits what they can do, and they will likely get worse YoY

 

[Weezeric]

4 5v5 points in 20 games for Rantanen since leaving Colorado…

 

[landy]

Drai can absolutely tear it up on his own. Drai >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rantanen

Maybe, but we havent seen it yet and hopefully never will becuase that means McDavid is injured.

50% of the time they are on the ice together. The other 50%, Drais sees the weaker meatchups.