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Value of: Rantanen to STL

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I think the sentiment that a lot of Avs fans are showing which I don't disagree with is Rantanen will either re-sign or walk into UFA this offseason. They have a shortened window that they don't care to try and elongate by minimizing their chances this year.
 
AvsGuy said:
Colorado didn't trade Paul Stastny to St Louis, he signed as a free agent. They also never traded Peter Forsberg for a younger star - he signed as a free agent with Philadelphia following the lockout.

I know the thread isn't going the way you'd hoped - have you considered not pulling information out of your ass?
Click to expand...
Well; thanks for the correction. Dude pulling a thousand facts out of thousands of memories to represent a point isn’t my strong suit. Chances are one or two fails and then I improve.

Thanks for making it nice with the personal attack though. You all can’t stop can you. You’re addicted to trying to provoke. It’s embarrassing. I’m going to sleep just fine realizing I mistook a trade for a guy walking. It’ll all be okay. Colorado has a history of change when it comes to 28-30 year old scoring forwards. The point is there is prescedent that this is a decision making juncture; not so much the exact detail. Or have you spoken with the manager and decided that when your guy is due he cannot be discussed? That’s fine if so. I don’t need to reply. The solution here is that the guy is signed. I’m not stopping that. No need to get mad at me.

When I think about Colorado - I remember all the times you guys swapped big names. You all do a lot of hockey trades. Everybody knew Duschene was coming but then we waited forever then you all fleeced everybody. You’re in the same position now. You’re patient too. And nobody ever really predicts what’s coming. Maybe my memory is fuzzy on your details because I don’t experience them like you do/too much up there created a mess. Im okay taking a shot in the dark, it’s the only kind of shot you can take with a deal like this.

You’re gonna probably keep him. I wanna know what it looks like if you don’t. I’m not forcing you to do that. To be really honest I’m surprised avs fans would be upset at this. I don’t have a bad word to say about the guy. Who doesn’t like hearing that their guys is worth a whole lot? I mean, it has to feel good seeing how many people think this is a crazy idea, which is cool from a Avs fans perspective I’d think. I always like it when my team is involved in top shelf trades. It’s fun to look at/learn about the other options. I spent too much time at armchair gm.
 
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StlBigFly said:
What started the thought was a discussion:

If he doesn’t stay, which of course is the general belief, but if he doesn’t; who can fit him from three points of view: depth chart hole, salary cap structure, and has legitimate assets to offer in return whereby the aftermath of the trade doesn’t cripple the acquiring team because it had to send out stuff that can’t be replaced easily, and also; that Colorado can get enough to feel good about, having it be their preferred outcome for their strategic reasons as it always is. Bonus points if the team is in or near contention with a non-rebuild depth chart.

If you go thru the league with those criteria, I think a whole lot of teams get eliminated.

Like for example: unless NYR was moving Panarin the other way, it’s hard to understand how Rantanen could become a Ranger. Or: Vegas seems to always find a way, but I don’t see how they could shift things. Teams like Toronto have this need covered. The lightning just signed Guentzel. A team like the Panthers looks like they’ll have to address things like future defense before they’d look at some large winger investment. The Kings would be interested I’d imagine but I don’t see what they would offer…I think they need all of their young pieces maybe - they’re the prime case where the trade cost would do too much damage imo; losing Dubois for nothing from depth chart perspective hurts. A team like Seattle has the need but the depth chart is not ready imo compared to others.

I kinda whiddled down the league to:

Stl, NJD, Utahns, Hurricanes (but they’re cheap). I’m sure there are others but I don’t see it really. There’s unprotected Kyrou, short termed Necas, Utah and devils is just a ton of guys. I think if a big wing change happened, these are the 4 places that have good odds to be involved, apart from rental and the Petterson/Miller situation being separate. Then I’m dropping a necas plus for Rantanen idea because historically that franchise avoids huge contracts; the thing Rantanen is reportedly asking for.

I think the best trading partner is possibly Utah, if it came to it; because they have so many different things to offer. It seems like a big splashy thing to do for a new franchise to sell tickets. Stl is similarly positioned with assets. Both teams have middle aged guys such as Thomas and Keller, Parayko and Sergachev; both are not rebuild cores, they’re the opposite; they’re the ages you load up. Neither team has a bonafide winger allstar at the productive ages (Keller not being counted because he is on the ice no matter what in most situations and would be complimentary or the return for Rantanen and Kyrou lot counted because while he is great at what he is great at, he is a different tier of player who’s compensation reflects as much). They’re both cores missing a few pieces to contend and teams in these positions sometimes trade up to add that piece. These two teams are ideal to make a large transaction imo, just probably not with one another. As for the Devils, they have interesting things. If some other team’s decision maker falls in love with something interesting in New Jersey then I think you’ll see something big. The capitals are also interesting but I just don’t see them moving what the ask would be. Ryan Leonard is a keeper and their timeline seems to fit him with McMichael. Imagine if that was offered tho? I’d have a real hard time saying no.

Colorado is in the best position. They have allll the leverage. If Rantanen moves it’s because an offer exists that is too good to say no to, probably something that solves multiple problems with high end solutions. Their worst case is bending on salary negotiations then that’s not that bad.

I know some Colorado fans absolutely love Rantanen and hate to ever see him traded and they’re not the ideal audience for the topic, but im not here to blast them; instead, what I think can be realized is that if something happens, you’re getting paid. You don’t have to do this. That’s a good way to be.

Colorado has a history of change around core offensive forwards in the 28-30 age range.
Click to expand...
 
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The problem is that Colorado is currently a cup contender, so it's hard to put together fantasy trade packages for a superstar on a contending team.

The ask would likely be a current 1st line caliber player, a 1st rounder, and a high level prospect, which makes no sense for either team.
 
Good thing I made this thread a day before sportsnet updated their trade bait board to include Mikko Rantanen. Would have felt like I was copying them or something eh? I wonder who the supposed three teams calling are…I bet I know.


Although I don’t think it’s actually just 3 teams. I think that’s just deal speak to imply that there is no shortage of buyers and that is how I’d guess it would be. It’s a sellers market. They have all the leverage. It just takes one overpay…

www.sportsnet.ca

Real Kyper's Trade Board 2.0: Tight races and interesting UFAs

Usually at the midseason, the contenders and pretenders begin to separate and we have an idea who's going to buy and sell on the trade market. Not so in 2024-25, where the standings are tight, especially in the Eastern Conference. Nick Kypreos updates his trade board, with a look at the market...
www.sportsnet.ca www.sportsnet.ca
 
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StlBigFly said:
What started the thought was a discussion:

If he doesn’t stay, which of course is the general belief, but if he doesn’t; who can fit him from three points of view: depth chart hole, salary cap structure, and has legitimate assets to offer in return whereby the aftermath of the trade doesn’t cripple the acquiring team because it had to send out stuff that can’t be replaced easily, and also; that Colorado can get enough to feel good about, having it be their preferred outcome for their strategic reasons as it always is. Bonus points if the team is in or near contention with a non-rebuild depth chart.

If you go thru the league with those criteria, I think a whole lot of teams get eliminated.

Like for example: unless NYR was moving Panarin the other way, it’s hard to understand how Rantanen could become a Ranger. Or: Vegas seems to always find a way, but I don’t see how they could shift things. Teams like Toronto have this need covered. The lightning just signed Guentzel. A team like the Panthers looks like they’ll have to address things like future defense before they’d look at some large winger investment. The Kings would be interested I’d imagine but I don’t see what they would offer…I think they need all of their young pieces maybe - they’re the prime case where the trade cost would do too much damage imo; losing Dubois for nothing from depth chart perspective hurts. A team like Seattle has the need but the depth chart is not ready imo compared to others.

I kinda whiddled down the league to:

Stl, NJD, Utahns, Hurricanes (but they’re cheap). I’m sure there are others but I don’t see it really. There’s unprotected Kyrou, short termed Necas, Utah and devils is just a ton of guys. I think if a big wing change happened, these are the 4 places that have good odds to be involved, apart from rental and the Petterson/Miller situation being separate. Then I’m dropping a necas plus for Rantanen idea because historically that franchise avoids huge contracts; the thing Rantanen is reportedly asking for.

I think the best trading partner is possibly Utah, if it came to it; because they have so many different things to offer. It seems like a big splashy thing to do for a new franchise to sell tickets. Stl is similarly positioned with assets. Both teams have middle aged guys such as Thomas and Keller, Parayko and Sergachev; both are not rebuild cores, they’re the opposite; they’re the ages you load up. Neither team has a bonafide winger allstar at the productive ages (Keller not being counted because he is on the ice no matter what in most situations and would be complimentary or the return for Rantanen and Kyrou lot counted because while he is great at what he is great at, he is a different tier of player who’s compensation reflects as much). They’re both cores missing a few pieces to contend and teams in these positions sometimes trade up to add that piece. These two teams are ideal to make a large transaction imo, just probably not with one another. As for the Devils, they have interesting things. If some other team’s decision maker falls in love with something interesting in New Jersey then I think you’ll see something big. The capitals are also interesting but I just don’t see them moving what the ask would be. Ryan Leonard is a keeper and their timeline seems to fit him with McMichael. Imagine if that was offered tho? I’d have a real hard time saying no.

Colorado is in the best position. They have allll the leverage. If Rantanen moves it’s because an offer exists that is too good to say no to, probably something that solves multiple problems with high end solutions. Their worst case is bending on salary negotiations then that’s not that bad.

I know some Colorado fans absolutely love Rantanen and hate to ever see him traded and they’re not the ideal audience for the topic, but im not here to blast them; instead, what I think can be realized is that if something happens, you’re getting paid. You don’t have to do this. That’s a good way to be.

Colorado has a history of change around core offensive forwards in the 28-30 age range.
Click to expand...

IMG_0522.gif


What…

…is…

…your…

…offer?
 
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RoyIsALegend said:
View attachment 961672

What…

…is…

…your…

…offer?
Click to expand...
That was my q.

The way the trade works is that Colorado has a good and competitive roster after the deal. And so does their trade partner.

I don’t see the deal.

Stl would likely move Buchnevich or Kyrou plus a lot. Utah would likely move schmaltz or Keller plus a lot. It’s kinda the same patttern for every team that could be involved with the winger aav money going the other way (or your trade partner can’t fit Rantanen into their depth chart) and filling the slot. Colorado would need some bonafide scoring in return I feel. There isn’t an obvious standout offer that I see. There isn’t an obvious Rantanen junior to offer. If Colorado decides to change there is not a similar player to acquire.

The only “untouchable” from stl is a technicality. Snuggerud is our most nhl ready prospect due to ncaa development but since he cannot be signed it wouldn’t make sense for a team to trade for him. Colorado wouldn’t want the uncertainty. They would risk losing him. I don’t think there is any agreement they could come to prior to Snuggerud’s ncaa career ending and I doubt he pulls the cord early due to national championship trajectory for his team.

I made a post with the topic value of, with a question that asks: what does this deal look like?

I’m asking the value of the trade. What does stl have to give.

I didn’t make a proposal thread.

I’m not here to convince you this is a good idea or that it will happen. I’m here to say it could happen because of historic prescedent and present day need.

I know this is not armchair gm but I think I understand why there is a disconnect here. Previously, when a big name was in the rumor mill, 2 dozen+ random people would throw out offers with their tools. You’d be able to look through them all and find the ones that make sense, debate with randoms. So many times I didn’t think of something but saw it while browsing. It was rare for people to get angry that other people were trading their players. Your players were traded every day there. If that made you mad the website was not a place you’d have enjoyed. Everybody was fair game. Detroit fans like their prospects a lot, Toronto fans will always give you their scraps for your star, but besides that it was pretty cordial. People were interested in trying to guess. Literally a website full of people who like to guess.

My guess for stl offer as of today is:

Kyrou or Buchnevich
plus
Saad, Holloway, Neighbors, Toropchenko, or Bolduc (anybody really, even c, d and goalie, see the note below)
plus
Dvorsky or Stenberg (or Snuggerud but can’t sign so prob no)
plus
Pekarcik or Stancl or a 2026 first

Avs get Rantanen roster slot filled with controlled player
Avs upgrade a roster slot
Avs get any one prospect they want
Avs get an above B+ prospect

The selection in the second choice is: if any of those guys upgrade a slot the dude who was pushed out is in the deal going back, even if ahl level talent in some cases. The deal can’t destroy one team. Avs also have to send one addl contract at least.

And I think I’d keep Dvorsky and Pekarcik together due to how they’ve developed.

Timing is not great, but these teams have very little ability to move the times these decisions happen. A guy like Rantanen is going to get the precedent driven deal he deserves which drives the term of the deal. Teams can’t just pick any term. The expiry and decision making juncture will occur when it occurs, when teams are in playoff pushes or not. It’s not a controllable thing to decide when these decisions are made.

I still think Avs are gonna sign him. I’d actually say the next 10 days are probably pretty interesting. Now that the press is starting to discuss the situation you may see some movement. I’d say it’s more likely he signs given the specific press the last 24 hours. Bonus points if Friedman mentions it.
 
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Waste of time. It’s your premise, you do the work and come up with ideas for Avs fans to reject. Or, save everyone’s time and keep your prospects. It seems more and more like this thread is a veiled excuse to brag about your prospect pool anyway.
 
John Mandalorian said:
Waste of time. It’s your premise, you do the work and come up with ideas for Avs fans to reject. Or, save everyone’s time and keep your prospects. It seems more and more like this thread is a veiled excuse to brag about your prospect pool anyway.
Click to expand...
our prospect pool is not that great.

It’s an abundance of good.

There is too much of it.

That implies some of it could be traded. The purpose is to predict a trade not to change your mind about anything.

You can hate my team, prospects, proposals and me. I’m not interested in debating your opinion on any of those matters.

Just trying to predict a trade of a pending ufa and was defending myself before sportsnet and others started discussing it.
 
I'm still so confused how you start a thread and say several times that you don't see how a reasonable offer could be made in this situation, and then get offended when other people confirm your initial thoughts.
 
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StlBigFly said:
That was my q.

The way the trade works is that Colorado has a good and competitive roster after the deal. And so does their trade partner.

I don’t see the deal.

Stl would likely move Buchnevich or Kyrou plus a lot. Utah would likely move schmaltz or Keller plus a lot. It’s kinda the same patttern for every team that could be involved with the winger aav money going the other way (or your trade partner can’t fit Rantanen into their depth chart) and filling the slot. Colorado would need some bonafide scoring in return I feel. There isn’t an obvious standout offer that I see. There isn’t an obvious Rantanen junior to offer. If Colorado decides to change there is not a similar player to acquire.

The only “untouchable” from stl is a technicality. Snuggerud is our most nhl ready prospect due to ncaa development but since he cannot be signed it wouldn’t make sense for a team to trade for him. Colorado wouldn’t want the uncertainty. They would risk losing him. I don’t think there is any agreement they could come to prior to Snuggerud’s ncaa career ending and I doubt he pulls the cord early due to national championship trajectory for his team.

I made a post with the topic value of, with a question that asks: what does this deal look like?

I’m asking the value of the trade. What does stl have to give.

I didn’t make a proposal thread.

I’m not here to convince you this is a good idea or that it will happen. I’m here to say it could happen because of historic prescedent and present day need.

I know this is not armchair gm but I think I understand why there is a disconnect here. Previously, when a big name was in the rumor mill, 2 dozen+ random people would throw out offers with their tools. You’d be able to look through them all and find the ones that make sense, debate with randoms. So many times I didn’t think of something but saw it while browsing. It was rare for people to get angry that other people were trading their players. Your players were traded every day there. If that made you mad the website was not a place you’d have enjoyed. Everybody was fair game. Detroit fans like their prospects a lot, Toronto fans will always give you their scraps for your star, but besides that it was pretty cordial. People were interested in trying to guess. Literally a website full of people who like to guess.

My guess for stl offer as of today is:

Kyrou or Buchnevich
plus
Saad, Holloway, Neighbors, Toropchenko, or Bolduc (anybody really, even c, d and goalie, see the note below)
plus
Dvorsky or Stenberg (or Snuggerud but can’t sign so prob no)
plus
Pekarcik or Stancl or a 2026 first

Avs get Rantanen roster slot filled with controlled player
Avs upgrade a roster slot
Avs get any one prospect they want
Avs get an above B+ prospect

The selection in the second choice is: if any of those guys upgrade a slot the dude who was pushed out is in the deal going back, even if ahl level talent in some cases. The deal can’t destroy one team. Avs also have to send one addl contract at least.

And I think I’d keep Dvorsky and Pekarcik together due to how they’ve developed.

Timing is not great, but these teams have very little ability to move the times these decisions happen. A guy like Rantanen is going to get the precedent driven deal he deserves which drives the term of the deal. Teams can’t just pick any term. The expiry and decision making juncture will occur when it occurs, when teams are in playoff pushes or not. It’s not a controllable thing to decide when these decisions are made.

I still think Avs are gonna sign him. I’d actually say the next 10 days are probably pretty interesting. Now that the press is starting to discuss the situation you may see some movement. I’d say it’s more likely he signs given the specific press the last 24 hours. Bonus points if Friedman mentions it.
Click to expand...

There’s no way the Blues would trade that much for a winger
 
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