Rankings of best on best rosters, right now

[Czechboy]

The train of the US ramping up resources, enrolment and development.

On the female side, we can no longer really aspire to win (while we used to dominate).
On the male side, it was always going to take some time, but with Quebec pulling the plug to hockey (football), the US will get there soon. Western Canada + Ontario, can't keep Canada #1 alone.

I'm heading to Czech Republic next summer, we should meet

I don't see it. I think the females are still very close. I think the states have a great program but, again, haven't won at senior level since 96. If I cheered for Canada on hockey I'd be feeling real good right about now.

 

[Czechboy]

WJC data is quite telling.

I called that after your first post. You are using a 2 week tournament for teenagers and it's been real clear all along.

 

[SOLR]

Also I’m from Québec and I have no idea what you’re talking about, football is a niche sport mainly played in Beauce and Montréal Nord, hockey is by far the most played sport at youth level

You haven't seen the numbers.

"Recreational registration in Quebec has declined over the last decade, from more than 100,000 players in 2009 to about 87,000 last year, a steeper drop than anywhere else in the country, according to Hockey Canada figures."

http://sites.duke.edu/wcwp/files/2015/04/Screen-Shot-2015-04-13-at-9.01.36-PM.png

I know about 40 kids in the 5-9 age group, 1 hockey players, 15+ soccer players. All in Quebec city. Many more would send their kids, but its too expensive.

 

[Goodman68]

Because it's been 20 years of continuous decline? The trend ain't good and if you can't acknowledge that, I mean there is not much to discuss. Slovakia is facing the same decline. So there is a regional decline (that I'm sad to see, I'm from Quebec City, I was born watching the Stastny brothers...). I'm going to guess that Football has become slightly more popular regionally as the 2 countries came out of the political upheaval of the 80s to join western Europe a bit more (one theory I have).

20 years of continuous bankruptcy? Just your next misconception. Find out something about the production of Czech prospects around 2010 and then you can reconsider it. Back then, the decline was greatest. In recent years, the situation has improved, as has already been written, the production of young players has improved, a lot of young players have worked their way into the NHL, and several have set out to do so. What are you still writing about? And where are the other young Germans at the Stutzle level, or at least Peterka or Reichel?
The decline of the Slovaks probably ends, as has already been written.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

I already anticipate there being quite a lot of hilarity post-2022 draft, especially if all 3 Slovak top prospects go in the 1st round, and there being a new wave of preachers how it's actually Slovakia that will soon retake positions and make it top-7 of hockey again and so on. Can see it already.

This is hfboards, so it's guaranteed this will happen. Just like all the threads about how Switzerland is going to start churning out elite prospects for the NHL on a regular level back when Niederreiter and Bartschi were making noise at the junior level. Sure, they have produced multiple solid NHLers in the years since, but they still have extremely weak draft years and there is no sign of them catching up to the top 5 in this regard.

I don't think that it will actually happen for Slovakia either, because the competition will be bigger than it used to be back in the early 2000s anyway. But while it's not showing on NHL level just yet, there have been signs that things are turning around lately.

 

[Eye of Ra]

This is hfboards, so it's guaranteed this will happen. Just like all the threads about how Switzerland is going to start churning out elite prospects for the NHL on a regular level back when Niederreiter and Bartschi were making noise at the junior level. Sure, they have produced multiple solid NHLers in the years since, but they still have extremely weak draft years and there is no sign of them catching up to the top 5 in this regard.

I don't think that it will actually happen for Slovakia either, because the competition will be bigger than it used to be back in the early 2000s anyway. But while it's not showing on NHL level just yet, there have been signs that things are turning around lately.

who is the top 5? if you are not counting in czech as one of the big ones its unserious.

 

[moropanov]

who is the top 5? if you are not counting in czech as one of the big ones its unserious.

Czech are nowadays still decent, but top 5 is obvious atm (Can, Usa, Fin, Swe,Rus) Czech is clear 6. Still propably closer in level to Switserland which is 7th than to Fin/Swe/Rus. Still margin is not very big if talking about competetive level with best possible line ups Czech's would win 30-40 game's from 100 game's againts Fin/Swe/Rus same as top NHL like Tampa/Colorado type team team againts middletier NHL team like Nashville or Montreal..

 

[Czechboy]

who is the top 5? if you are not counting in czech as one of the big ones its unserious.

Hard to say.. we are clearly 6th. However, our current world's team and our next Olympic team could medal and I don't think it'd be that big an upset. Overall though, definitely not Top 5. I'm not sure what needs to happen but I'm guessing over 40 NHL players and at least 10 of them are D.

 

[Czechboy]

This is hfboards, so it's guaranteed this will happen. Just like all the threads about how Switzerland is going to start churning out elite prospects for the NHL on a regular level back when Niederreiter and Bartschi were making noise at the junior level. Sure, they have produced multiple solid NHLers in the years since, but they still have extremely weak draft years and there is no sign of them catching up to the top 5 in this regard.

I don't think that it will actually happen for Slovakia either, because the competition will be bigger than it used to be back in the early 2000s anyway. But while it's not showing on NHL level just yet, there have been signs that things are turning around lately.

Denmark had a similar surge with some awesome players! Sustaining that is tough.

I do wonder if the competition got better (eg. the big 5 just improved a lot) or everyone else just got a little worse?

Swiss had a few very good NHL goalies, now they don't have one which is surprising to me. I'm not even sure if one is on the way? They do have some great pieces! I'd kill for a Josi. Meier is a beast, big fan. Obviously Nino, nico and Fiala are excellent players. Highlighted are guys over 30 at the next Olympics:

 

[slovakiasnextone]

who is the top 5? if you are not counting in czech as one of the big ones its unserious.

My post was talking about developing prospects and in those terms while Czechs have made improvements compared to 10 years ago, there is a gap between them and CAN / US / RUS / FIN / SWE.

 

[jonas2244]

CZE somehow has problems getting good results. If they would medal from time to time they'd be seen closer to Top-5.

Switzerland has with Genoni and Berra two very good goalkeepers which probably have NHL-level. Genoni is a little bit small. But both are in their 30-ies.
The Devils just signed Akira Schmid to an ELC. He is a solid prospect. Gilles Senn who is playing in the same organisation, too. Goalkeepers are always difficult to predict, you can bloom late on this position.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

It's not at all a given fact Bokk and Peterka do enter the NHL, ever. And by the time they do, there can be any number of young Czechs there (Jasek, Kaut, Jenik, Zohorna, Lauko, Galvas, Dostal, Korenar). Only the biggest German optimists could realistically project Czechs not having at least 3 to 1 advantage even a few years down the road.

You forgot about Spacek who is absolutely f***ing amazing.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

I've been providing arguments for 10 pages now, you just don't like them (neither did I illustrate all the data points I'm thinking about - sorry that would be a little long). The main point is that from my look at it recently, under multiple vectors WJC data is quite telling.



Hmm, you just choose to fill the blanks in everything I say with who you think I am, but I'm not at all. I have made numerous post at the beginning of this year (and last year) seeing this wave of Czech talent coming, but I also already see the limit of this wave (ie. 3 good years), something I'm not seeing in the German system. Slovaks will have a jolt as well, great. All the arguments I'm presenting is while knowing full well what will happen in the next 2-3 years (and my evaluation of the after with what I'm seeing in the system) - hoping I'm wrong.

"Czechs have 11 U25 NHL players who played at least 10 games, Germany has 1." Don't talk to me about picking the data you want haha.

"Belarus is stronger than ever, Kazakhstan managed to come back to elite division at WJC level" Yeah not so sure there, these countries have a lot of instability ahead of them.



Look, I get that it's good to be skeptical when someone's analysis is predicting a decline. This is not a knee-jerk reaction based on Germany's last wave of talent. You had a sleeping giant in Europe, and the giant has awakened (it will be 5x more awaken if Stuetzle becomes a star). Much like the US is set on surpassing Canada soon (and they are succeeding). Larger economies, bigger populations, tend to win the macro battles linked to numbers.

You can´t be f***ing serious with this one. Even 3 stutzles would not help you against sheer number of players CZ have. Only thing we are missing is defense from getting back to top 6, we are basically in our own tier and there is absolutely massive gap between us and next following countries(SWI, GER). We have also supertalents btw look at Adam Jecho and David Jiříček.

 

[SoundAndFury]

You forgot about Spacek who is absolutely f***ing amazing.

Well even if he does get to the NHL (for the sake of argument) Spacek will be 25+ by then, which is what that post was about.

 

[SOLR]

You can´t be f***ing serious with this one. Even 3 stutzles would not help you against sheer number of players CZ have. Only thing we are missing is defense from getting back to top 6, we are basically in our own tier and there is absolutely massive gap between us and next following countries(SWI, GER). We have also supertalents btw look at Adam Jecho and David Jiříček.

Yep Jecho and Jiricek looks great. I don't think you understand the argument here about Stuetzle.

Czech Republic would produce another Jagr and that would be expected in the country, nothing new, move on. Canada produces another McDavid, nothing new, moving on. Even if that's true, another Jagr would mean a nice wave of growth for Czech hockey. Much like McDavid will in Canada.

Stuetzle is an ethnic german (Draisaitl isn't), if he becomes a star, this is a group that doesn't know hockey with the first star in their history. A post-Stuetzle as a star Germany would be changed forever, it would mean a giant wave of growth in a place that doesn't care much about hockey right now.

Jeremy Roenick, Brian Leetch had the same effect for the US - they were Canadian-level stars and they generated a lot of breaking the glass ceiling. Austen Matthews is on another level, and he's from Phoenix, a non-hockey region, as a result, hockey is progressing rapidly in his region (The Auston Matthews Effect revitalized hockey in Arizona, but what comes next?)

 

[GettingYourMoms]

Well even if he does get to the NHL (for the sake of argument) Spacek will be 25+ by then, which is what that post was about.

that is 5-10 years of another czech player in nhl, what is your point

 

[SoundAndFury]

that is 5-10 years of another czech player in nhl, what is your point

We were comparing young players entering the league and 25 years happened to appear as a decent cutoff point. Sadly, this vital need to include Spacek on the list wasn't accounted for, I apologize. Would his inclusion have contributed anything to the argument? So maybe you should ask yourself what is the point.

Not to mention that this was supposed semi-serious discussion and this "Spacek is a beast future NHL player" meme wasn't really part of it.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

We were comparing young players entering the league and 25 years happened to appear as a decent cutoff point. Sadly, this vital need to include Spacek on the list wasn't accounted for, I apologize. Would his inclusion have contributed anything to the argument? So maybe you should ask yourself what is the point.

Not to mention that this was supposed semi-serious discussion and this "Spacek is a beast future NHL player" meme wasn't really part of it.

You will look really silly after this world championship. We have Necas who is becoming surefire superstar and Jenik who will be really f***ing good, Zadina looks like Mark Stone with his defensive game despite his offensive drop.

 

[tobu]

You will look really silly after this world championship. We have Necas who is becoming surefire superstar and Jenik who will be really f***ing good, Zadina looks like Mark Stone with his defensive game despite his offensive drop.

Czech team is looking really good on paper for this tournament. Good odds of Czechs medaling this year.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

Czech team is looking really good on paper for this tournament. Good odds of Czechs medaling this year.

yes this year is our only chance

 

[czechmate]

yes this year is our only chance

I agree. We'll have a great chance this year, perhaps the biggest in a long time.

However, looking into the future, I wouldn't be so pessimistic. The Czechs will only get better year by year. We've got a very talented core of young forwards (Pastrnak, Vrana, Necas, Zadina, Chytil, Zacha, Kubalik, Jenik, etc.). All we need is a couple of Hronek's to pan out. This can happen faster than one might think, even though we've had to deal with and suffer from this issue for +/- >5 years. The current development of young defenders makes me feel very positive though.

 

[Czechboy]

I see it as a big 7 this year with no real favourite... Swiss have a good looking squad and they're very good at this tourney (I know their fans say they have 2 goalies near NHL level and around 30, I'm not sure if either is starting). Canada has an all NHL team with a very good NHL goalie, US have 3 NHL goalies and some very nice pieces, Finland has Sisu and a similar group to their last gold medal, Sweden is always a threat and the last non NHL (I know there are a few here) tourney was won by Russia powered by the KHL (Olympics). Of course the German's made that final in that tourney. I always cheer for the Slovaks and they have a nice little youth movement going. Latvian's at home could be competitve and never sleep on Belarus!

Normally it's a big 5 AINEC (eg. I will be in shock if the next best on best has a medalist outside the big 5) ... but those other 'tiers' will be more competitve as well. I can't see any team coming in and just dominating and I think the 4 quarters will all be extremely close!

In a weird way, less talent has made this a really exciting tourney because it is much more even.

 

[Czechboy]

I agree. We'll have a great chance this year, perhaps the biggest in a long time.

However, looking into the future, I wouldn't be so pessimistic. The Czechs will only get better year by year. We've got a very talented core of young forwards (Pastrnak, Vrana, Necas, Zadina, Chytil, Zacha, Kubalik, Jenik, etc.). All we need is a couple of Hronek's to pan out. This can happen faster than one might think, even though we've had to deal with and suffer from this issue for +/- >5 years. The current development of young defenders makes me feel very positive though.

Let's hope for a few good bonces.

Right now Mrazek is a backup in the playoffs and Vanecek got hurt in a golden opportunity. So we have something like 7 backup goalies next year. Really need a few of them to become starters.

Zboril and Hajek still have potential and new locations might be good for them.

I will be in shock if Jiricek doesn't become an NHL player. Svozil I have at 50-50. Didn't see enough of Hamara (another injury! This is what I mean about bounces going our way.. when you lack depth a little luck is needed).

Speaking of bounces... Kempny got hurt by an ice shovel in intermission. I don't even know where to begin with that one.lol

Michal Kempny returns to Washington after freak injury with shovel: ‘Sh*t happens’

 

[jonlin]

How is Finland better than Russia?

Sweden at 8? Sounds like trolling

Finlands strenght is C:s, two-way play and always teamgame. Goalies are fine and D is ok. Our PK-players are among the best in the league with Teräväinen, Aho, Barkov and Hintz on F. Lindell, Heiskanen and Hakanpää are good at shutting down the D. I feel we have a very balanced group of players
Probably missing something, but Russia is better at wings, but lack C:s. Defence is likely quite even and goaltending also. Maybe slightly better for Russia. I feel Finland has a more balanced lineup. We have 3 PPG+ 2-way centers in Barkov, Aho and Hintz.

Finland:

TT - Aho - Rantanen
Laine - Barkov - Kapanen
Tolvanen - Hintz - Donskoi
Puljujärvi - Kotkaniemi - Granlund

Heiskanen - Lindell
Ristolainen - Hakanpää
Lehtonen - Nutivaara

Rask
Saros
Lankinen

Russia:

Panarin - Kuznetsov - Kaprizov
Kucherov - Malkin - Ovetchkin
Svechnikov - ? - Tarasenko
Radulov - ? - Buchnevich

Sergachev - Provorov
Zaitsev - Orlov
Zadorov - Zub/Gavrikov?

Vasilevski
Varlamov
Samsonov

 

[Czechboy]

Panarin - Kuznetsov

I don't think either will be there? I'll leave that to the Russian posters that know more than me but I think Panarin has some issues with Putin and Kuzy is suspended from the tourney? I could be wrong on both accounts though.