Yeah, centers are a weakness for Russia, but Finland definitely does not have “way better defense”
Rankings of best on best rosters, right now
- Thread starter Eye of Ra
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Sadly performance indicates otherwise, they're more third than second tier nowadays.
Eye of Ra
Grandmaster General of the International boards
Koreans imports are gonna hang up their skates. Hungary have better top players, but Poland more depth,
Remember everyone. China will be at the Olympics and they will have home-ice advantage,
JabbaJabba
Registered User
1. Canada
2. USA
3. Sweden
4. Finland
5. Russia
6. Czech Republic
7. Switzerland
8. Germany
9. Slovakia
10. Denmark
2. USA
3. Sweden
4. Finland
5. Russia
6. Czech Republic
7. Switzerland
8. Germany
9. Slovakia
10. Denmark
JabbaJabba
Registered User
C'mon dude. This is insane. Kahun, Kuhnhackl, Macek, Reider, Michaelis, Sturm and Bergmann have no chance making the roster over Bäckström. Landeskog, Lindholm, Burakovsky, Karlsson, Rakell, Pettersson, Olofsson, Arvidsson... Draisaitl makes it and maybe Stutzle, that's it. And there is no way that Holzer makes that team or is above Hedman. None of the Germans would make the defence. Hedman, Karlsson, Ekman-Larsson, Brodin, Ekholm, Klingberg, Dahlin, Andersson are just better. Maybe Seider in the future. Grubauer would make the team and fight for starter position, that I give you. Although, no use for Greiss.
ORRFForever
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2018
- 20,871
- 12,026
Miro4Norris
Registered User
- Jan 24, 2021
- 2,060
- 1,985
Your defense assessment is laughable. Finland truly has one top defenseman and that’s Miro, the rest has been extremely average this year
SoundAndFury
Registered User
- May 28, 2012
- 12,284
- 6,274
If all NHL players available for the nations with no injuries as of today I'd guess:
1. Canada
2. USA
3. Sweden
4. Russia
5. Finland
6. Czech
7. Swiss
8. Germany
9. Slovakia
10. Denmark
11. Latvia
12. Belarus
13. Norway
14. France
15. Austria
16. Slovenia
17. Italy
18. Kazakhstan
19. South Korea
20. Hungary
21. Great Britain
22. Poland
Canada is obvious, USA for best top end depth all round even if they do not possess the very best players, Sweden for well roundedness, Russia for high end firepower and Finland finally for having excellent top players but not as much depth as the other four. Czech occupies a lone and obvious spot at #6.
Swiss have relatively fewer top prospects coming out but they are very disciplined and hard to argue they are not the clear #7. Germany ahead of Slovakia, a Kopitar led Slovenia ragdolled them in 2014, Draisaitl is far better and Germany has much more depth. I'd still pick Denmark ahead of Latvia because when has Denmark had every single NHLer available? You put Ehlers, Eller, Bjorkstrand and Andersen on a team and they'd be pretty decent.
The rest mostly just hunches based on recent results and maybe upcoming prospects played a role too (i.e. Austria would be lower if they didn't have a great 2020 draft).
1. Canada
2. USA
3. Sweden
4. Russia
5. Finland
6. Czech
7. Swiss
8. Germany
9. Slovakia
10. Denmark
11. Latvia
12. Belarus
13. Norway
14. France
15. Austria
16. Slovenia
17. Italy
18. Kazakhstan
19. South Korea
20. Hungary
21. Great Britain
22. Poland
Canada is obvious, USA for best top end depth all round even if they do not possess the very best players, Sweden for well roundedness, Russia for high end firepower and Finland finally for having excellent top players but not as much depth as the other four. Czech occupies a lone and obvious spot at #6.
Swiss have relatively fewer top prospects coming out but they are very disciplined and hard to argue they are not the clear #7. Germany ahead of Slovakia, a Kopitar led Slovenia ragdolled them in 2014, Draisaitl is far better and Germany has much more depth. I'd still pick Denmark ahead of Latvia because when has Denmark had every single NHLer available? You put Ehlers, Eller, Bjorkstrand and Andersen on a team and they'd be pretty decent.
The rest mostly just hunches based on recent results and maybe upcoming prospects played a role too (i.e. Austria would be lower if they didn't have a great 2020 draft).
Last edited:
1.Bluegers and Balcers are below Bjorkstrand and Ehlers for sure. I don't know how you can make an argument to argue that point, Bjorkstrand is the best forward on an NHL team, Ehlers is a PPG player.
Regarding depth
Denmark has
Andersen
Larsen, M.Lauridsen, O.Lauridsen, J.Jensen, N.Jensen, Brugisser, Krogsgaard, Setkov, Lassen, O.Larsen
Ehlers, Eller, O.Bjorkstrand, Russell, True, Blichfeldt, Nielsen, Regin, N.Jensen, Rondbjerg, Boedker, Meyer, Olesen, Andersen, Storm etc
Seems like you are underrating Denmark.
Goalies, I agree, Latvia has way more depth, but its best on best, so healthy Andersen is better than any latvian goalie.
Defense? Danish is better, Latvia has no aswer to Larsen, Jensen and O.Lauridsen were much better in KHL than any latvian lately.
Forwards? No match for Ehlers and Bjorkstrand, Eller best C among 2 countries.
So,
Ehlers(PPG in NHL)-Nielsen(long time NHLer)-Russell(TOP AHLer, plays NHL this year)
Boedker(Top NLA player)-Eller(very good NHLer)-Bjorkstrand(Top player for Columbus)
Blichfeldt(Top AHLer)-True(Top AHLer)-Jensen(2nd best forward for Jokerit KHL)
Meyer(Top Liiga player)-Regin(ex NHL)-Rondbjerg(AHL)
Better than latvian lineup with Indrasis and Darzins as 1st line players, who both are TOP 6 only in Riga.
You clearly know very little about Latvian hockey players, but that's OK.
Some of your comparisons are absurd. Andersen is a declining, sub-.900, sub-replacement level goalie currently being a bum in the AHL, while Merzlikins has established himself as a solid 1st goalie with much better stats in the NHL.
Bjorkstrand plays on a bum team and gets plenty of PP time. Eller is worse than Blueger. Are you even aware of Blueger? He's a 0.50 PPG guy while playing on the 4th/3rd line and on the PK.
I think Latvia and Denmark would be a close contest, so I'm not gonna say that either nation could easily ice a stronger roster than the other, but I think you're selling the Latvian's short while overesting some of the Danish players.
For example, Ehlers has never been close to a PPG before, so unless he magically became much faster/stronger/smarter this year – it's a little early to deem him a PPG calibre player. And so much about points comes from oppurtunity. How many points would Ehlers score if he was playing on the Ducks? He wouldn't be close to a PPG, but that doesn't mean he'd be a worse player. He'd just be getting worse results.
This applies to Blueger as well, who's above 0.5 PPG while playing bottom six minutes and no PP time in Pittsburgh. Not saying he's the level of Ehlers or Bjorkstrand, but he'd be a bigger offensive threat playing for Latvia than for Pittsburgh. The same goes for Girgensons, who plays a defensive role in Buffalo.
Nielsen is pretty much only in the NHL right now because of his contract. He's quite done. And Boedker was declining every year in the NHL until he bolted for Europe, and while he's a "top player" there, he was also outproduced by the likes of Daniel Winnik and Mark Arcobello. So between Boedker/Nielsen and Daugavins/Kenins, I might prefer the Latvian duo. At the very least, they are about equal. Daugavins is a top scorer in the KHL and he would've had a longer NHL career if teams had started focusing on skill over grit on their 4th lines earlier. And on the other end of that spectrum, Kenins, who is more of an energy type of winger, came into the NHL just when teams stopped caring about grit.
Then there's Indrasis, Darzins, Bukarts, Abols... Off the top of my head. Guys who are good KHL'ers/SHL'ers.
The key for Latvia against Denmark, is to avoid penalties. You certainly wanna avoid a power play run by Ehlers, Bjorkstrand and Larsen. But during 5 v 5, I think Latvia would have more possession. And I think they clearly have the better goaltender. I think Elvis is a top 5 goaltender in the NHL right now. Look at his numbers from the last couple of years, and consider that he's playing on a losing Blue Jackets team. Also, look at his stats from the Latvian national team.
Last edited:
I know quite a lot about latvian players don't worry. I know who Darzins and Indrasis are for example.
Andersen has played through injury this year. A healthy Andersen is a long time established NHL goalie, Merzlikins is not yet one.
Balcers also plays on a "bum team", same with Girgensons, haven't seen them play at the same level. Eller is worse than Bluegers? Says who? Eller is long time established guy, won the SC, Bluegers is playing on that level his 1st season. You are clearly underselling Bjorkstrand and Eller.
Interesting that after 1 bad season(because of injury) Andersen is a bum, and Bluegers after 1 good season is ahead of Eller.
Last edited:
Ehlers is a young, improving guy. He played this season at PPG, don't see a reason why I shouldn't list him as such. But OK, we can say 1st liner.
I understand that results may vary depending on a team, for example, I don't think that Ehlers is better than W.Nylander. Problem is, Latvia has no such players at the moment.
Nielsen is done at NHL level, I agree, but he is still ahead of guys like Karsums or Darzins etc. Winnik and Arcobello would have been leaders at team Latvia if they were Winniks and Arcobellos. Daugavins played last year for Vityaz. If he was a top KHler, he would have been playing for Salavat or Dynamo Moscow, not for Vityaz, people who follow KHL now what I mean. He can be gritty btw.
Kenins is def below Boedker, while Daugava is roughly on the same level with Nielsen at the moment.
Dzierkals, Darazins and Bukarts are playing for Dinamo Riga. Nuff said. Bukarts couldn't make iton Severstal as an import.
You don't really ever fully recover from serious injuries, they pile up, you become worse. Also, Andersen was bad to mediocre before the injury. Both this and the previous season.
And, yes, it's the first season for Blueger where he's actually being iced every single game and doesn't have to play 10 minutes on the 4th line. It's pretty straightforward why him getting more ice time is more indicative of his skill and potential.
Enough with the "no, he's better, no he's worse", it's getting a little silly.
You're clearly overrating Danish players.
Agreed. I'm just pointing out that the Latvian NHL'ers are more skilled than their point totals shows, because of the roles they play. But of course, they play those roles because they don't deserve anything more with their current teams. Ehlers and Bjorkstrand get 1st PP minutes because they are that good. But again, the Latvian NHL'ers are slightly bigger offensive threats on team Latvia compared to what they are with their respective club teams.
Blueger, Girgensons and Balcers would be the leaders for team Latvia. Guys like Arcobello and Winnik would be in the group with Daugavins, Indrasis and Kenins. Just as they would be competing with Nielsen and Boedker for 2nd line duties on team Denmark.
Dinamo Riga is an equal or better team than what most Danish players are on. What player's made it where is quite irrelevant. I'm looking at Severstals roster right now, and as the biggest Slovak fan I can comfortably say that Bukarts is a better player than Adam Liska. It's easy to name examples of players who've made it one league or team and not the other. Ryan Vesce has been a productive player in the KHL, but couldn't hack it in the SHL. Meanwhile, Ryan Lasch dominated the SHL for years but was never good enough even for the AHL. Evander Kane and Joffrey Lupul sucked in their short KHL time.
Again, I'm not saying Latvia is nessecarely ahead of Denmark, I just don't agree with the way you oversell 75% of the Danish roster by calling them "long time NHL'er" or "Top AHL'er" when Latvia has several players of the same calibre.
Last edited:
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
I agree. I would have them third. They are probably second best in upside, which revolves around some solution at center that works and their stars showing up. USA probably deserves second over Russia because the top end of the rosters are close and USA has no weakness, but if Russia surprises everyone as the main contender to Canada at the Olympics I wouldn’t be surprised. Their floor is also pretty low. They could be worse than Sweden or Finland. They have the biggest variability of the big five. Could be second best or could be 5th best. And in a one off game, if Ovechkin gets a few PP opportunities, Panarin and Kucherov have good games and Vasilevskiy is on his game, they could beat Canada.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
1. Canada
2. USA
3. Russia
4. Sweden
5. Finland
6. Czech Republic
7. Switzerland
8. Germany
9. Slovakia
10. Denmark/Belarus/Latvia
2. USA
3. Russia
4. Sweden
5. Finland
6. Czech Republic
7. Switzerland
8. Germany
9. Slovakia
10. Denmark/Belarus/Latvia
ORRFForever
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2018
- 20,871
- 12,026
Add the fact that this is likely Malkin's and O.V.'s last kick at the Olympic can, and that may be the kick in the ass Russia needs.
I agree, Russia could easily finish 2nd thru 5th.
ORRFForever
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2018
- 20,871
- 12,026
Mathieukferland
Registered User
Russian national teams, unlike Soviet national teams, can’t play together. The team in 2010 is still one of the best forward groups I’ve ever seen yet their fourth line produced the most; the players all want to play their own style and there don’t seem to be enough pucks on the ice when the big guns are out. They all wanted to be the triggerman on the power play and they all wanted to fly the zone on the breakout.
They are also hindered by poor coaching (not knowing how to line match comes to mind) and the fact they play and change as 5 man units, while in thought is good idea, has led to goals against (thinking of Crosby at the World Cup in 2016).
SoundAndFury
Registered User
- May 28, 2012
- 12,284
- 6,274
Well saying Eller is worse than Blugers is pretty much as ridiculous as saying as Elvis is worse than Freddie so I'm calling this one a draw
