Rank the top 8.

  • Xenforo Cloud has upgraded us to version 2.3.6. Please report any issues you experience.
I agree from an entertainment point of view.

But winning and entertainment are two different things.

Good that we are on the same page with this now.:handclap:

But which one do prefer as a fan of hockey:

Watching team Canada play in a tournament that you know that they will most likely win pretty easily.
(tournament like Sochi)
or

watching team Canada play in a tournament where they have to play their best game to win the whole tournament while witnessing some of the best moment in a hockey history. Even though there is also a chance that your team might not win. (Tournament like Vancouver)
 
Watching team Canada play in a tournament that you know that they will most likely win pretty easily.
(tournament like Sochi)

I had no such notions coming into this tournament! I don't know a Canadian who was 100% confident.

I personally didn't gain anywhere near that level of confidence until halfway through the US game. At that point the team looked like they had bought into the game plan and were executing it with perfection.

You have it backwards. I'd much rather play on smaller ice like in 2010. I personally believe ice size had a lot to do with how boring this tournament was. The small ice game is far more frantic - makes things much more of a toss up than the boring big ice.
 
1. Canada
2.Sweden
3. Usa
4.Russia
5.Czech
6. Finland
7. Slovakia
8. Switzerland
 
1. Finnland
2. Sweden
3. Russia
4. Canada
5. Czech Republique
6. Switzerland
7. USA
8. Slovakia
 
I had no such notions coming into this tournament! I don't know a Canadian who was 100% confident.

I personally didn't gain anywhere near that level of confidence until halfway through the US game. At that point the team looked like they had bought into the game plan and were executing it with perfection.

You have it backwards. I'd much rather play on smaller ice like in 2010. I personally believe ice size had a lot to do with how boring this tournament was. The small ice game is far more frantic - makes things much more of a toss up than the boring big ice.

After reading all of those "if Canada could bring xx teams and they could win all the medals", I think it's fair to say that many of you thought that Canada was able to win it pretty easily.

But the reason why these top xx listings are so boring is that they are based mostly on opinions. I would like to see a listing of olympic records (best-on-best era) that also shows weight factor for different tournaments (based on the quality of the teams). But it means that you should be able to analyze different teams so precisely that it would take days.. Canada would be no 1 of course, but after them?? Sweden had pretty easy job in Torino. Quarters against Switzerland, semis against Czechs and finals against Finland. So as you can see, you can actually win olympic gold without playing against USA, Canada or Russia in elimination rounds.
 
Since it's somewhat relevant: The game-by-game standings of all 19 countries who've sent teams to the Olympic Men's Tournament in the "NHL Era" (1998-2014).
Country | TM | GP | W | L | OW | OL | OT | SW | SL | PTS | GF | GA | G | S | B | 4P
Canada|CAN|31|20|6|2|0|1|1|1|68|108|53|3|0|0|1
Finland|FIN|30|20|9|0|1|0|0|0|61|103|60|0|1|3|0
Sweden|SWE|26|19|7|0|0|0|0|0|57|89|51|1|1|0|0
Russia|RUS|29|17|8|0|0|1|1|2|56|99|65|0|1|1|1
United States|USA|28|14|10|0|1|2|1|0|47|95|63|0|2|0|1
Czech Republic|CZE|28|13|12|1|0|1|1|0|44|81|60|1|0|1|0
Slovakia|SVK|25|10|11|0|0|2|1|1|35|72|71|0|0|0|1
Switzerland|SUI|19|6|7|1|0|3|1|1|26|37|46|0|0|0|0
Germany|GER|20|6|12|0|0|2|0|0|20|38|73|0|0|0|0
Belarus|BLR|20|6|12|0|0|1|0|1|20|47|80|0|0|0|1
Latvia|LAT|18|3|12|0|1|2|0|0|12|46|78|0|0|0|0
Kazhakstan|KAZ|12|3|8|0|0|1|0|0|10|30|56|0|0|0|0
Austria|AUT|12|2|7|0|0|2|0|1|9|27|48|0|0|0|0
France|FRA|8|2|5|0|0|1|0|0|7|17|26|0|0|0|0
Slovenia|SLO|5|2|3|0|0|0|0|0|6|10|16|0|0|0|0
Ukraine|UKR|4|2|2|0|0|0|0|0|6|11|14|0|0|0|0
Italy|ITA|9|1|6|0|0|2|0|0|5|21|39|0|0|0|0
Japan|JPN|4|0|2|0|0|1|1|0|3|9|13|0|0|0|0
Norway|NOR|8|0|7|0|1|0|0|0|1|11|39|0|0|0|0
 
Since it's somewhat relevant: The game-by-game standings of all 19 countries who've sent teams to the Olympic Men's Tournament in the "NHL Era" (1998-2014).
Country | TM | GP | W | L | OW | OL | OT | SW | SL | PTS | GF | GA | G | S | B | 4P
Canada|CAN|31|20|6|2|0|1|1|1|68|108|53|3|0|0|1
Finland|FIN|30|20|9|0|1|0|0|0|61|103|60|0|1|3|0
Sweden|SWE|26|19|7|0|0|0|0|0|57|89|51|1|1|0|0
Russia|RUS|29|17|8|0|0|1|1|2|56|99|65|0|1|1|1
United States|USA|28|14|10|0|1|2|1|0|47|95|63|0|2|0|1
Czech Republic|CZE|28|13|12|1|0|1|1|0|44|81|60|1|0|1|0
Slovakia|SVK|25|10|11|0|0|2|1|1|35|72|71|0|0|0|1
Switzerland|SUI|19|6|7|1|0|3|1|1|26|37|46|0|0|0|0
Germany|GER|20|6|12|0|0|2|0|0|20|38|73|0|0|0|0
Belarus|BLR|20|6|12|0|0|1|0|1|20|47|80|0|0|0|1
Latvia|LAT|18|3|12|0|1|2|0|0|12|46|78|0|0|0|0
Kazhakstan|KAZ|12|3|8|0|0|1|0|0|10|30|56|0|0|0|0
Austria|AUT|12|2|7|0|0|2|0|1|9|27|48|0|0|0|0
France|FRA|8|2|5|0|0|1|0|0|7|17|26|0|0|0|0
Slovenia|SLO|5|2|3|0|0|0|0|0|6|10|16|0|0|0|0
Ukraine|UKR|4|2|2|0|0|0|0|0|6|11|14|0|0|0|0
Italy|ITA|9|1|6|0|0|2|0|0|5|21|39|0|0|0|0
Japan|JPN|4|0|2|0|0|1|1|0|3|9|13|0|0|0|0
Norway|NOR|8|0|7|0|1|0|0|0|1|11|39|0|0|0|0
Thanks.
 
1. Spain
2. Germany
3. Netherlands
4. Brazil
5. Argentina
6. Italy
7. Portugal
8. Colombia

Oh sorry this is the Football-Ranking ;)!
 
1. Spain
2. Germany
3. Netherlands
4. Brazil
5. Argentina
6. Italy
7. Portugal
8. Colombia

Oh sorry this is the Football-Ranking ;)!

Based on what?? Finland should be third. Finland played 1-1 against Spain last year :yo:
 
Everyone always laughed at Canadians when they would talk about a Canada B team at tournament and question why Canada didn't dominate every tournament with the number of quality players they had.

Finally we have a tournament where Canada's biggest strength was exhibited.

Who were the big injuries to the US and Russia?

In 98, Canada lost Lemieux, Sakic and Kariya. Do we strike that tournament from the list of best-on-best?

I certainly haven't been, but hey, if we are going there, great.

Allow me to write off 1996 as well. Canada was without Roy, Lemieux, Bourque, MacInnis, Kariya, Francis and of course a Canadian player lead the tournament in scoring while playing for another team. How lucky that we can just wash these things away because Sweden and Finland were missing a few top quality (or not) players.
 
Since it's somewhat relevant: The game-by-game standings of all 19 countries who've sent teams to the Olympic Men's Tournament in the "NHL Era" (1998-2014).
Country | TM | GP | W | L | OW | OL | OT | SW | SL | PTS | GF | GA | G | S | B | 4P
Canada|CAN|31|20|6|2|0|1|1|1|68|108|53|3|0|0|1
Finland|FIN|30|20|9|0|1|0|0|0|61|103|60|0|1|3|0
Sweden|SWE|26|19|7|0|0|0|0|0|57|89|51|1|1|0|0
Russia|RUS|29|17|8|0|0|1|1|2|56|99|65|0|1|1|1
United States|USA|28|14|10|0|1|2|1|0|47|95|63|0|2|0|1
Czech Republic|CZE|28|13|12|1|0|1|1|0|44|81|60|1|0|1|0
Slovakia|SVK|25|10|11|0|0|2|1|1|35|72|71|0|0|0|1
Switzerland|SUI|19|6|7|1|0|3|1|1|26|37|46|0|0|0|0
Germany|GER|20|6|12|0|0|2|0|0|20|38|73|0|0|0|0
Belarus|BLR|20|6|12|0|0|1|0|1|20|47|80|0|0|0|1
Latvia|LAT|18|3|12|0|1|2|0|0|12|46|78|0|0|0|0
Kazhakstan|KAZ|12|3|8|0|0|1|0|0|10|30|56|0|0|0|0
Austria|AUT|12|2|7|0|0|2|0|1|9|27|48|0|0|0|0
France|FRA|8|2|5|0|0|1|0|0|7|17|26|0|0|0|0
Slovenia|SLO|5|2|3|0|0|0|0|0|6|10|16|0|0|0|0
Ukraine|UKR|4|2|2|0|0|0|0|0|6|11|14|0|0|0|0
Italy|ITA|9|1|6|0|0|2|0|0|5|21|39|0|0|0|0
Japan|JPN|4|0|2|0|0|1|1|0|3|9|13|0|0|0|0
Norway|NOR|8|0|7|0|1|0|0|0|1|11|39|0|0|0|0
Interesting table, but useful only to some extent - for example to see how able the superpowers are to brush aside the minnows and things like that. This tournament during the the past 16 years have seen so many weird and dis-balanced groups and matchups even during a single tournament, that to draw some serious conclusions about teams that have played less games than say Switzerland is crazy. Slovenia's six points look sexy, but in reality they won against Austria and Norway. What I'm trying to say is, that we had such matchups even before NHL pro's entered the frame (yes, yes -Kopitar, Vanek, Grabner, Raffl), which is the whole point of the table. Kinda.

As a team Latvia fan, would love to see this table if someone would be able to remove points from Nagano preliminary round games and points from placement games from Nagano and Salt lake City games. All teams outside top8 would take some really impressive blows to their tallies.
 
Last edited:
Here are my top 4 lists.

Hockey super powers:

1.Canada
2.Usa
3.Sweden
4.Russia

Country that produces best centers:

1.Canada
2/3. Sweden , Usa
4/5. Russia/Finland

Best wingers:

1/2.Canada/Russia
3.Usa
4.Sweden

Best Goalies:

1.Finland
2.Sweden
3.Canada
4.Usa

Best wjc teams (last 10 years):

1.Canada
2.Sweden
3.USA
4.Russia

Overall individual talent:

1.Canada
2.Russia
3.Usa
4.Sweden

Best women team:
1.Canada
2.USA
3.-74. no-one
75.Sweden
76.-77. no-one
78.Finland

Best coaching:
1.Canada
2./3. Sweden, Finland
4./5.USA, CZE

Best teamplay:
1.Canada
2.Sweden
3.Finland
4.Switzerland

Top 4 at 2014 whc:
1.Sweden
2.Russia
3.Finland
4.USA
(Canada still has hangover from Sochi)

Most memorable moments since nagano for me:

1. Crosby's overtime goal in vancouver (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z0W1MUv_c4)
2. Kurri vs Gretzky 1998 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSYXmzwTuiE)
3. last minutes of regulation and overtime in Womens final at sochi. What a thriller (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W2TIGJCCao)
4. Tommy Salo vs Belarus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFQnIFN1pYo) sorry Sweden..
 
After reading all of those "if Canada could bring xx teams and they could win all the medals", I think it's fair to say that many of you thought that Canada was able to win it pretty easily.

But the reason why these top xx listings are so boring is that they are based mostly on opinions. I would like to see a listing of olympic records (best-on-best era) that also shows weight factor for different tournaments (based on the quality of the teams). But it means that you should be able to analyze different teams so precisely that it would take days.. Canada would be no 1 of course, but after them?? Sweden had pretty easy job in Torino. Quarters against Switzerland, semis against Czechs and finals against Finland. So as you can see, you can actually win olympic gold without playing against USA, Canada or Russia in elimination rounds.

We've had discussions like these in the HoH boards (my usual hangout). What constitutes best-on-best? Why doesn't the 2005 WHC count as best-on-best? What about the 1979 Challenge Cup? 1976 doesn't count because USSR was missing players X and Y, and so on....

Fact is that there are *always* going to be some key players missing. Going down that rabbit hole leads to nowhere useful. As a Canadian I'd love to be able to dismiss the 1996 WCH (no Bourque, Lemieux, Roy) or Nagano (no Lemieux, Sakic, Kariya) as irrelevant, but as a thoughtful human being, I know you can't do that and be honest with yourself.

We all know that these single-game elimination tournaments are usually won by the thinnest of margins, so any single tournament isn't always that useful for declaring hockey supremacy. The sample size is just too small. Only through looking at several tournaments can you start to see the trends. And when you do that, missing this player or that player starts to average out among the teams and isn't nearly the big deal you think it is regarding the Sochi tournament.

Regarding Canada's depth, we need to bring our best to win, but win we do, more often than anybody else (see previous point about 'trends'). I'm not usually part of the 'Canada should sent XX teams' crowd, and I know it does sound arrogant to say it, but fact is that there are enough quality players that on paper a Canada B-squad looks as good as just about any other national team.

Below is a proposed B-team from another thread, from the esteemed HFboards member 'Sidney the Kidney'. It does not include Steve Stamkos who was selected for Sochi but did not play, so he could be added. Tell me what other national team has a roster that is definitively better than this:


Taylor Hall - Claude Giroux - Tyler Seguin
Logan Couture - Joe Thornton - James Neal
Milan Lucic - Eric Staal - Andrew Ladd
Ryan O'Reilly - Jason Spezza - Jordan Eberle
Extras: Jordan Staal - Mike Richards

Defense:
Dion Phaneuf - Dan Boyle
Mark Giordano - Brent Seabrook
Brian Campbell - Dan Girardi
Extras: Francois Beauchemin - Marc Staal

Goalies:
Marc-Andre Fleury
Corey Crawford
Extra: Cam Ward
 
So what you are saying is that World juniors were not best-on-best because Canada didn't have 3 players there. Finland did not have Barkov and Määttä because they were in the NHL too. But still olympics were best-on-best even though finland and sweden lost way more than 3 players to injuries. I'm confused..:sarcasm: And are you also saying that Canada lacks depth behind their brightest stars??(MacKinnon, Rielly and Monahan) This is the reason why I don't think that your depth is in a league of its own..

Put together a world team that doesn't include any 2014 olympians.

You can pick any player in the world as long as they did not participate or were named to a team in the 2014 Sochi Olympics

J. Neal - E. Staal - C. Giroux
J. Skinner - J. Spezza - T. Seguin
T. Hall - R. NH - J. Eberle
N. Mackinnon - J. Thornton - E. Kane

B. Seabrook - M. Green
D. Phaneuf - M. Giordano
D. Boyle - M. Reilly

M.A. Fleury
J. Bernier
M. Brodeur


This is why the depth is in a league of it's own.
 
We've had discussions like these in the HoH boards (my usual hangout). What constitutes best-on-best? Why doesn't the 2005 WHC count as best-on-best? What about the 1979 Challenge Cup? 1976 doesn't count because USSR was missing players X and Y, and so on....

Fact is that there are *always* going to be some key players missing. Going down that rabbit hole leads to nowhere useful. As a Canadian I'd love to be able to dismiss the 1996 WCH (no Bourque, Lemieux, Roy) or Nagano (no Lemieux, Sakic, Kariya) as irrelevant, but as a thoughtful human being, I know you can't do that and be honest with yourself.

We all know that these single-game elimination tournaments are usually won by the thinnest of margins, so any single tournament isn't always that useful for declaring hockey supremacy. The sample size is just too small. Only through looking at several tournaments can you start to see the trends. And when you do that, missing this player or that player starts to average out among the teams and isn't nearly the big deal you think it is regarding the Sochi tournament.

Regarding Canada's depth, we need to bring our best to win, but win we do, more often than anybody else (see previous point about 'trends'). I'm not usually part of the 'Canada should sent XX teams' crowd, and I know it does sound arrogant to say it, but fact is that there are enough quality players that on paper a Canada B-squad looks as good as just about any other national team.

Below is a proposed B-team from another thread, from the esteemed HFboards member 'Sidney the Kidney'. It does not include Steve Stamkos who was selected for Sochi but did not play, so he could be added. Tell me what other national team has a roster that is definitively better than this:


Taylor Hall - Claude Giroux - Tyler Seguin
Logan Couture - Joe Thornton - James Neal
Milan Lucic - Eric Staal - Andrew Ladd
Ryan O'Reilly - Jason Spezza - Jordan Eberle
Extras: Jordan Staal - Mike Richards

Defense:
Dion Phaneuf - Dan Boyle
Mark Giordano - Brent Seabrook
Brian Campbell - Dan Girardi
Extras: Francois Beauchemin - Marc Staal

Goalies:
Marc-Andre Fleury
Corey Crawford
Extra: Cam Ward

I'm sorry but even though I'm from Finland, I don't think that Finland is on the top 3 on hockey supremacies list even though those trends tell you otherwise. I must have missed the correct trends that puts Finland to 5th position if we are talking about the trends that are solely based on "best-on-best" tournaments.

Before Sochi, I thought that realistic rank for Finland would be 6th with that team. And even though they became 3rd, I don't think that it was because that team was so good. It was because others sucked even more or did not show up. I mean Slovakia for example. What a ******* is wrong with that team??

I'm a fan of good and entertaining hockey. Whether it's nhl games or international tournament, it doesn't matter as long as it's good. Vancouver was all of that, Sochi was not.

What would you rather have? Gold medal or entertaining/good tournament with a 20 % chance for gold medal?

I'd rather risk the medal and watch entertaining hockey as a fan. I want to be able to go through all the emotions that a good thriller gives you.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad