Confirmed with Link: Rangers Sign Micheal Haley (1 Year, Two-Way, $700K/$275K)

[Trxjw]

Fighting as is ritualized for "retribution" and such is really, really quickly on its way out. Very few players are known for fighting anymore and the enforcer, whatever was left of it, is a completely dead concept. There are still tough guys but sans literally Tom Wilson alone there are no truly fearful players in hockey anymore. I don't doubt that Ranger players will get into scraps but they're probably much more likely to be fights between regular players than a mismatch between a regular player and some worthless goon.

(and honestly Wilson is a pretty ****ty fighter. he'd get KO'd pretty routinely in 1992)

And when it's wiped out, I'm sure the Rangers will stop signing guys to be punching bags. I don't think for a minute Haley is being brought in under the guise of a preventative measure. He's a sacrificial body for games where the Rangers expect other Haley types to be on the ice against them.

You let Lemieux do his thing and agitate. Then you let Haley step in and fight the pissed off Reaves or Wilson so Lemieux doesn't have to. He's basically a warm body to take the punches.

 

[Raspewtin]

And when it's wiped out, I'm sure the Rangers will stop signing guys to be punching bags. I don't think for a minute Haley is being brought in under the guise of a preventative measure. He's a sacrificial body for games where the Rangers expect other Haley types to be on the ice against them.

You let Lemieux do his thing and agitate. Then you let Haley step in and fight the pissed off Reaves or Wilson so Lemieux doesn't have to. He's basically a warm body to take the punches.

If other Haley types are on the ice then the Rangers probably win the game.

I find it very hard to believe Lemieux is going to agitate and not fight. He's not Sean Avery who needed a lot of dirty tricks to get his way, Lemieux has fought extensively at every level and he's a really big guy. He was literally a league leader in fights this year. In 17 less games he had twice the fights Reaves had.

This whole "Haley type" thing seems like a boogeyman to me. Less than 17% of NHL games had a fight, in any capacity, last season. We've established that the vast majority of fights are between NHL regulars and not fighting specialists. Even in such a "sacrificial lamb" role, I don't think Haley is either needed for that, nor will he make the team any better doing that.

 

[nyr2k2]

Anyone that doesnt understand what a guy like Haley does for a team obviously hasnt played in a competitive league. His presence makes everyone play bigger, theres no stats for that, it just is. As long as he isnt a complete drain on a line, which he isnt, having him to fight so others can play their game more comfortably has value.

Do you even lift, bro?

 

[nyr2k2]

If other Haley types are on the ice then the Rangers probably win the game.

I find it very hard to believe Lemieux is going to agitate and not fight. He's not Sean Avery who needed a lot of dirty tricks to get his way, Lemieux has fought extensively at every level and he's a really big guy. He was literally a league leader in fights this year. In 17 less games he had twice the fights Reaves had.

This whole "Haley type" thing seems like a boogeyman to me. Less than 17% of NHL games had a fight, in any capacity, last season. We've established that the vast majority of fights are between NHL regulars and not fighting specialists. Even in such a "sacrificial lamb" role, I don't think Haley is either needed for that, nor will he make the team any better doing that.

You obviously haven't played and don't understand!

 

[Irishguy42]

You obviously haven't played and don't understand!

He's obviously never been in a locker room before. Pfffft.

 

[Number 9]

I like a good fight or a hard check every few games, I don't see anything wrong with it tbh. However, with lemieux, smith, deangelo, and even krieder, I dont believe haley is needed. Haley is one of the last legit enforcers, I would be ok with him not playing. Im not intensely pro or against fighting in hockey, just think a reason for the fight should be warranted.

 

[Number 9]

Feel like there is never a middle ground with this shit

 

[chosen]

The notion that any player makes other players braver was always mostly shiite. There have been a couple of exceptions. Teammates may be happy about having a teammate like Haley but it won't make them even a little bit less likely to be smashed by a player like Tom Wilson. Haley might fight Wilson afterwards, but the damage will have already been done.

I understand that teammates might want a Haley and that might be reason enough to have him, but in the end it won't help them even a little bit. Deterrents as a concept in hockey is a myth.

 

[Crease]

Feel like there is never a middle ground with this ****

The last plug pretty much everyone liked was Prust.

 

[Edge]

I think there was a time where having fighters did make a difference.

But the fact is that style has been systematically phased in and then out over the last 40-45 years or so.

From instigator penalty enforcement, to third-man-in calls, to a bunch of other factors, that era is over --- and has been for a while.

Everyone wants a Wilson, or a prime Lucic, or the next Bob Probert, but those guys are few and far between. Even your lesser versions like Brad May or Brandon Prust are hard to come by.

Personally, I feel like we already went down this road once before...with this exact same player.

 

[Machinehead]

Feel like there is never a middle ground with this ****

There certainly is a middle ground; a tough player who can play.

Haley is not that, although he's better than absolute dumpster fires like Glass and McLeod.

 

[Raspewtin]

I think there was a time where having fighters did make a difference.

But the fact is that style has been systematically phased in and out over the last 40-45 years or so.

From instigator penalty enforcement, to third-man-in calls, to a bunch of other factors, that era is over --- and has been for a while.

Everyone wants a Wilson, or a prime Lucic, or the next Bob Probert, but those guys are few and far between.

Even those players are being phased out.

Wilson may be the very last of that breed of player. Fighting and brutal physical play have been phased out at all of the developmental stages of hockey and the Lucic's are too slow and plodding for today's game. Even seeing some of the more physical talented kids come up you can see they're simply not like how they used to be.

And even with that in mind, Wilson sucks at fighting and gets by because he's a remorseless sociopath on skates who, if I had to guess, will be out of the league in the next 5 years.

 

[Thirty One]

So roll over and take it.....got it.

Yes, I was looking for the perfect words to describe what I mean, but couldn't find them. You nailed it. Thank you.

 

[Edge]

Even those players are being phased out.

Wilson may be the very last of that breed of player. Fighting and brutal physical play have been phased out at all of the developmental stages of hockey and the Lucic's are too slow and plodding for today's game. Even seeing some of the more physical talented kids come up you can see they're simply not like how they used to be.

And even with that in mind, Wilson sucks at fighting and gets by because he's a remorseless sociopath on skates who, if I had to guess, will be out of the league in the next 5 years.

The last point is a big risk for teams as well.

It's very easy to overpay for a guy like Wilson, or even Lucic, only to discover that they're already in a steep decline while still in their 20s.

 

[NYSPORTS]

but it’s not 1979

and it’s not figure skating either.

That’s debate came full circle rather quickly.

 

[chosen]

Players like the Tkachuk brothers are what you want.

 

[Thirty One]

Players like the Tkachuk brothers are what you want.

Or Lemieux (a lot less talented but the same idea). Now we need to insulate Lemieux from the stuff that was a big reason we acquired him. Next year we're going to need to sign George the Animal Steele to insulate Haley.

 

[Crease]

The problem with the Rangers is that instead of signing NHLers who can throw a punch, they sign AHLers who are willing to take punches to play in the NHL.

 

[nyr2k2]

The last plug pretty much everyone liked was Prust.

I was good with Car Bomb. He didn't score much but I thought he was effective. Responsible, and tenacious on the forecheck. Though I understand why he was unable to continue (which is yet another reason why the tough guys are a...dying breed).

 

[Thirty One]

Forgetting that it's my team that's doing it, it is impressive that he's still getting NHL looks. 33 is ancient for a player of his makeup.

 

[eco's bones]

I still think Tony would put up a great fight against him and who knows, Tony's quick and can def take a punch.

Even if Tony landed all the punches though Wilson's got the size head of a basketball and more than probably it's rock hard and Tony (judging by his build) probably has an average size person's hand. You can badly hurt your hand on somebody's head and then Wilson could be alright afterwards and Tony out for a month and a half healing his hand. If Tony has to fight someone--someone relatively his own size is best and someone goofy like Okposo lunging at him so he can hit him in the jaw. Wilson ain't going to lunge. His tactic would be more like--'this guy's shorter at me--I'll stiff arm him with the one hand and use my reach with the other'.

 

[Thirty One]

I was good with Car Bomb. He didn't score much but I thought he was effective. Responsible, and tenacious on the forecheck. Though I understand why he was unable to continue (which is yet another reason why the tough guys are a...dying breed).

I really think that if Carcillo wasn't so undisciplined, they would have kept him around, but the abuse of official suspension in the playoffs was a wake up call, so they went with the much less effective but much more dependable Glass.

I liked Dorsett as well.

 

[lakeshirts37]

I'm not gonna comment on Haley the player, but instead focus on the contract.

The end result of his signing is just around $1.1M in cap space with the roster we currently have; it's a net-even money swap with Nieves going down. They have the flexibility to carry another skater when injuries arise, and sending Haley and other young guys down is relatively easy. For the constraints they set on themselves, they've managed to handle the 2019-20 cap reasonably well.

How this pans out for the future with the younger contracts needing extensions remains to be seen.

Still confuses me why people think signing the young guys in the future will be a problem. There is an insane amount of money coming off the books in the next two years.

20-21
Kreider: 4.625
Vlad: 4
Strome: 3.1
Fast: 1.85

21-22
Smith: 4.35
Staal: 5.7
Hank: 8.5
Buyouts: 4.95

That’s just over $37M...plus whatever cap increases. We’re in fine shape.

 

[Crease]

I'd rather Boyle than Haley as 13F, although this might be one of those things where the team inquired and couldn't get a mutually agreeable deal done.

 

[Thirty One]

Tony (judging by his build) probably has an average size person's hand.

No, I shook hands with him once. It was like grabbing a bunch of bananas.