Confirmed with Link: Rangers sign Cody McLeod to a one year deal

[SA16]

There are some things that are opinions, some things that are misguided opinions, and some things that are simply wrong. I’m not sure which of the latter two this post falls under.

This concept of people whose ability to help a team become more coherent, despite their personal lack of ability, has literally been around for thousands of years and has been proven effective over and over and over.

Ok so where is the objective proof and data showing this to be the case? I don't want any anecdotal stories or small sample results.

 

[silverfish]

Ok so where is the objective proof and data showing this to be the case? I don't want any anecdotal stories or small sample results.

When I played pee wee hockey in District 5 back in MN, we had this one clown on the team named Lester. He was great to have in the locker room but a real liability on the ice. We lost every game. That is until we got the best player in the league in a transfer. Then we started winning. Still not sure what was more important to the D5 team success, though, Lester or the actual hockey player. Really hard to say.

 

[Tawnos]

Ok so where is the objective proof and data showing this to be the case? I don't want any anecdotal stories or small sample results.

I’m sorry, I don’t have data showing how Roman legions often promoted soldiers to centurions on the basis of their training and leadership abilities and not their fighting skills. The fact that they did it all the time proves that the idea had standing among the most competent fighting force of its time.

Not everything needs data for proof.

 

[Inferno]

Aside from tanner glass...how many of the veteran goons we've signed have ever played in Hartford?

I guess I'll believe it when I see it.

I'm 100% expecting him to be on the big club for intangible reasons.

 

[Inferno]

When I played pee wee hockey in District 5 back in MN, we had this one clown on the team named Lester. He was great to have in the locker room but a real liability on the ice. We lost every game. That is until we got the best player in the league in a transfer. Then we started winning. Still not sure what was more important to the D5 team success, though, Lester or the actual hockey player. Really hard to say.

The flying v sure helped too.

 

[Inferno]

Here's how things stand right now.. assuming both lias and chytil make the big club

Kzb
Zucc Hayes spooner
Fasth chytil namestnikov
Vesey lias McLeod
I'm hoping having McLeod here takes away a spot for boo. Of course if boo plays and Cody sits..that's fine I guess...but again...I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[SA16]

Well I can give you some (small sample) data on one player considered to be great in the locker room.

Tanner Glass 2013-2014 (PIT)
GF with him in the lineup: 197
GA with him in the lineup: 173
GF% with him in the lineup: 53.2
GF without him in the lineup: 52

GA without him in the lineup: 34
GF% without him in the lineup: 60.4

NYR 2014-2015
GF with him in the lineup: 200
GA with him in the lineup: 162
GF% with him in the lineup: 55.2

GF without him in the lineup: 52
GA without him in the lineup: 30
GF% without him in the lineup: 63.4

NYR 2015-2016
GF with him in the lineup: 161
GA with him in the lineup: 163
GF% with him in the lineup: 49.6

GF without him in the lineup: 75
GA without him in the lineup: 54
GF% without him in the lineup: 58.1

COMBINED\
GF with him in the lineup: 558
GA with him in the lineup: 498
GF% with him in the lineup: 52.8
GF without him in the lineup: 179
GA without him in the lineup: 118
GF% without him in the lineup: 60.3

So looks like this great guy and locker room influence really did nothing of the sort because in each individual season and overall across three seasons his teams were far superior when he did not play than when he did. Now, I'll note this data is of course not meaningful and little should be taken from it as it's a small sample based on only player (I'm sure this is the only sentence that will get responded to though). This isn't even him on/off the ice. It's him in/out of the lineup.

 

[Inferno]

Well I can give you some (small sample) data on one player considered to be great in the locker room.

Tanner Glass 2013-2014 (PIT)
GF with him in the lineup: 197
GA with him in the lineup: 173
GF% with him in the lineup: 53.2
GF without him in the lineup: 52

GA without him in the lineup: 34
GF% without him in the lineup: 60.4

NYR 2014-2015
GF with him in the lineup: 200
GA with him in the lineup: 162
GF% with him in the lineup: 55.2

GF without him in the lineup: 52
GA without him in the lineup: 30
GF% without him in the lineup: 63.4

NYR 2015-2016
GF with him in the lineup: 161
GA with him in the lineup: 163
GF% with him in the lineup: 49.6

GF without him in the lineup: 75
GA without him in the lineup: 54
GF% without him in the lineup: 58.1

COMBINED\
GF with him in the lineup: 558
GA with him in the lineup: 498
GF% with him in the lineup: 52.8
GF without him in the lineup: 179
GA without him in the lineup: 118
GF% without him in the lineup: 60.3

So looks like this great guy and locker room influence really did nothing of the sort because in each individual season and overall across three seasons his teams were far superior when he did not play than when he did. Now, I'll note this data is of course not meaningful and little should be taken from it as it's a small sample based on only player (I'm sure this is the only sentence that will get responded to though). This isn't even him on/off the ice. It's him in/out of the lineup.

It's because the whole great locker room guy thing...to me...is so blah. So many good players are good locker room guys. This isn't going to be a team with 10 rookies on it. At most it's what....4? maybe 5? And that's including DeAngelo whose played a few seasons already...pionk who got into a bunch down the stretch and chytil and Anderson.

They've got experience all over the lineup.
It's not the blind leading the blind here.

 

[SA16]

It's because the whole great locker room guy thing...to me...is so blah. So many good players are good locker room guys. This isn't going to be a team with 10 rookies on it. At most it's what....4? maybe 5? And that's including DeAngelo whose played a few seasons already...pionk who got into a bunch down the stretch and chytil and Anderson.

They've got experience all over the lineup.
It's not the blind leading the blind here.

Yea it's because bad players make the team worse. Not better.

It might be different at lower levels but we're talking about the absolute best hockey players in the world. Without that level of dedication they wouldn't be there in the first place.

 

[nyr2k2]

So even if you presume it's a move for Hartford, I still don't see the need. They have Olympian Bobby Butler down there, who has substantial NHL experience and other pro experience from across the globe. He is by all accounts also a Good Locker Room Guy. They also have 400+ AHL game veteran Cole Schneider, who also, from what I have read, is a Good Locker Room Guy. I'm sure they'll sign some other veteran/Good Locker Room Guys before the season start.

Like, what does McLeod teach a kid that someone like Bobby Butler can't? Or whatever other Good Locker Room Guy we also bring in? We always have veterans down there, usually some with substantial NHL experience. They're also usually not completely worthless on the ice. I just don't understand. McLeod can point to Butler and say, "The only reason I had a career instead of that guy is that I was willing to punch other guys in the head. Remember that, guys." Literally everything else about preparing for the NHL can be learned from other Good Locker Room Guys.

 

[Inferno]

So even if you presume it's a move for Hartford, I still don't see the need. They have Olympian Bobby Butler down there, who has substantial NHL experience and other pro experience from across the globe. He is by all accounts also a Good Locker Room Guy. They also have 400+ AHL game veteran Cole Schneider, who also, from what I have read, is a Good Locker Room Guy. I'm sure they'll sign some other veteran/Good Locker Room Guys before the season start.

Like, what does McLeod teach a kid that someone like Bobby Butler can't? Or whatever other Good Locker Room Guy we also bring in? We always have veterans down there, usually some with substantial NHL experience. They're also usually not completely worthless on the ice. I just don't understand. McLeod can point to Butler and say, "The only reason I had a career instead of that guy is that I was willing to punch other guys in the head. Remember that, guys." Literally everything else about preparing for the NHL can be learned from other Good Locker Room Guys.

So....much...this.

 

[Bob Richards]

I'm not saying locker room presence isn't a thing or doesn't have some kind of place but Jesus, that shit gets turned into this overwrought, hyper-dramatic intangible around here. Unless McLeod is some ultimate speech master I feel like setting the team's Spotify playlist only goes so far when you're a hemorrhage on the ice otherwise.

We are talking about Cody f***ing McLeod not Martin Luther King lmao

 

[DanielBrassard]

I can't wait until the Rangers are done with "rebuilding" and the same exact conversation occurs.

 

[Tawnos]

So even if you presume it's a move for Hartford, I still don't see the need. They have Olympian Bobby Butler down there, who has substantial NHL experience and other pro experience from across the globe. He is by all accounts also a Good Locker Room Guy. They also have 400+ AHL game veteran Cole Schneider, who also, from what I have read, is a Good Locker Room Guy. I'm sure they'll sign some other veteran/Good Locker Room Guys before the season start.

Like, what does McLeod teach a kid that someone like Bobby Butler can't? Or whatever other Good Locker Room Guy we also bring in? We always have veterans down there, usually some with substantial NHL experience. They're also usually not completely worthless on the ice. I just don't understand. McLeod can point to Butler and say, "The only reason I had a career instead of that guy is that I was willing to punch other guys in the head. Remember that, guys." Literally everything else about preparing for the NHL can be learned from other Good Locker Room Guys.

Again, this is not a binary thing. It isn’t a matter of good locker room guy/bad locker room guy. It’s about what players, as individuals, bring to the table. They don’t necessarily do it in the same way.

But given that this is very clearly the reason players like this keep getting jobs and also given that you and I don’t know them and are not privy to what goes on in the locker room, in practice, or on the bench, I will defer to the people who do have that information.

 

[nyr2k2]

Again, this is not a binary thing. It isn’t a matter of good locker room guy/bad locker room guy. It’s about what players, as individuals, bring to the table. They don’t necessarily do it in the same way.

But given that this is very clearly the reason players like this keep getting jobs and also given that you and I don’t know them and are not privy to what goes on in the locker room, in practice, or on the bench, I will defer to the people who do have that information.

As someone who defended the Brashear signing and a couple other moves like Jody Shelley, I've seen enough subsequent acquisitions of terrible hockey players that happen to be willing to have their brains run through a blender to no longer be willing to defer to the front office in these situations.

I'm sure that if this group is still more or less in place in three years, we'll be signing a half-dead Micheal Haley. Our FO loves these guys.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

As someone who defended the Brashear signing and a couple other moves like Jody Shelley, I've seen enough subsequent acquisitions of terrible hockey players that happen to be willing to have their brains run through a blender to no longer be willing to defer to the front office in these situations.

I'm sure that if this group is still more or less in place in three years, we'll be signing a half-dead Micheal Haley. Our FO loves these guys.

Every front office likes these guys. Over and over we see teams signing these goons year after year.

 

[SA16]

Well as far as I can tell what Tanner Glass has brought to the table in his last year in PIT/first two for NYR is a significantly lower goal differential when playing versus when hurt/healthy scratched.

I assume most of these guys are the same but I have to do all the research manually and it takes too much time.

 

[Tawnos]

Well as far as I can tell what Tanner Glass has brought to the table in his last year in PIT/first two for NYR is a significantly lower goal differential when playing versus when hurt/healthy scratched.

I assume most of these guys are the same but I have to do all the research manually and it takes too much time.

If the goal is to make the team better, with an awareness that the player isn’t very good individually, their W/L record is far more important than the goals statistics you posted earlier.

 

[SA16]

If the goal is to make the team better, with an awareness that the player isn’t very good individually, their W/L record is far more important than the goals statistics you posted earlier.

Wins and losses are directly related to goal differential...it's goal differential+variance.

They must be experts at rallying the troops to win 1 goal games and then getting blown out in their losses.

 

[Tawnos]

As someone who defended the Brashear signing and a couple other moves like Jody Shelley, I've seen enough subsequent acquisitions of terrible hockey players that happen to be willing to have their brains run through a blender to no longer be willing to defer to the front office in these situations.

I'm sure that if this group is still more or less in place in three years, we'll be signing a half-dead Micheal Haley. Our FO loves these guys.

If it were only us, I’d probably be on board. These players exist in every organization in the league.

 

[silverfish]

If the goal is to make the team better, with an awareness that the player isn’t very good individually, their W/L record is far more important than the goals statistics you posted earlier.

Just Win Baby.

 

[Tawnos]

Wins and losses are directly related to goal differential...it's goal differential+variance.

They must be experts at rallying the troops to win 1 goal games and then getting blown out in their losses.

I’m not making the assumption that the record with Glass is better than without. For one thing, even when he’s not in the lineup, in a lot of those cases he’s still on the team. So if a player spends all 185 days on the roster during the regular season, but puts in 50 games, I’m not sure that you have any viable data to use for comparison.