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Prospect Info: Rangers Prospects Thread (Stats in Post #1; Updated 5.29.18)

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Cwede: I am out of town without easy access to the collective bargaining agreement but after reading your email I believe you are right and I was wrong. I recall the rangers signing Kyle Jean and Troy donnay after development camp and a few years ago they wanted to sign zach bratina but he retired because of concussions.

cwede said:
Ric - as i understand it (recall Tolchinsky) by having undrafted kids at prospect camp, TC (or equivelent), or training camp, teams have a finite window to sign those kids (maybe until their league season begins?)

btw last year NYR had G Joseph Raaymakers at TC, maybe at Prospect Camp?, supposedly could have been signed to ELC,
went back to SSM but only played goal in 10 games,
he went undrafted again this year
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It's not perfect but it's another tool to use is how i look at it, and it makes Day look good so i thought i'd share it here :)
 
If I don't buy into corsi, I certainly don't buy into this type of thing.

And I'm not a Day hater. I just don't think he's one of our best prospects. What is even the case to say he had a better season than Gettinger for example? These are just a bunch of random numbers, there is evidently some formula here, but I don't know what exactly here would make me consider him such a great prospect.

I have no clue how someone could conclude Day was a top 10 defender in the CHL when he was the fourth best defender on his own team. To me, that is overrating him, I don't "hate" him. Why would I?
 
You didn't notice the "" arounds the word haters? :)

I don't agree he was the 4th best D-man on his team but even if true, 2 of the D-men ahead of him there was on his team.
Day had a good season overall and made pretty big strides in his play.

Also, DEV adjusts for age and several other factors.

As i said, it's not perfect but it's another tool to use.
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
It's not perfect but it's another tool to use is how i look at it, and it makes Day look good so i thought i'd share it here :)
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Interesting to say the least.

If this comes to fruition, I'm going to be pretty irritated about passing on Suzuki and Yamamoto (though there are other metrics that love our picks too.)



Pavel Buchnevich said:
If I don't buy into corsi, I certainly don't buy into this type of thing.

And I'm not a Day hater. I just don't think he's one of our best prospects. What is even the case to say he had a better season than Gettinger for example? These are just a bunch of random numbers, there is evidently some formula here, but I don't know what exactly here would make me consider him such a great prospect.

I have no clue how someone could conclude Day was a top 10 defender in the CHL when he was the fourth best defender on his own team. To me, that is overrating him, I don't "hate" him. Why would I?
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Disagree 100% that he was their 4th best defender.

Hes a much better prospect than Zborovskiy - The fact that he skates and passes the puck better than Sergei already gives him a major leg up, those things matter at the next level because if you can't do either of those things at the next level, you're going to have a bad time (see: Marc Staal.)

Hes started to iron out a bunch of the issues in his game, most of which are easily fixable. He didn't have an amazing season by any stretch of the imagination, but it was a pretty big step forward and should be seen as nothing short of encouraging when discussing his NHL future.
 
Geoff Gorden said:
Interesting to say the least.

If this comes to fruition, I'm going to be pretty irritated about passing on Suzuki and Yamamoto (though there are other metrics that love our picks too.)
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Yeah, Lias and Chytil look good too in various models so i'm not too bothered honestly, i would have prefered Suzuki + Yamamoto aswell but Lias and Chytil as GOOD ;P

Also, more information is always better, hence every model that has some solid base should be atleast looked at :)
 
Isn't Sean Day AHL eligible this year?

I seem to remember he and several other of our prospects were supposed to be old enough for AHL duty this season.
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
You didn't notice the "" arounds the word haters? :)

I don't agree he was the 4th best D-man on his team but even if true, 2 of the D-men ahead of him there was on his team.
Day had a good season overall and made pretty big strides in his play.

Also, DEV adjusts for age and several other factors.

As i said, it's not perfect but it's another tool to use.
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Sorry, this post below is more what I was responding to, wasn't really knocking what you said. Gorden is trying to pick a fight, saw it from a mile away.

Geoff Gorden said:
Disagree 100% that he was their 4th best defender.

Hes a much better prospect than Zborovskiy - The fact that he skates and passes the puck better than Sergei already gives him a major leg up, those things matter at the next level because if you can't do either of those things at the next level, you're going to have a bad time (see: Marc Staal.)

Hes started to iron out a bunch of the issues in his game, most of which are easily fixable. He didn't have an amazing season by any stretch of the imagination, but it was a pretty big step forward and should be seen as nothing short of encouraging when discussing his NHL future.
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I don't consider Zborovskiy one of our best prospects either, so again, you are just looking for a fight thats not there. I think Day had a good season, an improvement on the last season, but I can only go by what I see and read. From what I read, OHL and Windsor pushed back when I defended him, so while I will defend Rangers prospects, you gotta take the opinion of those who watch these CHL games more than us into account. The point totals from Day were good, not great. His current skill-set and play doesn't seem to match his reputation with some fans.

And I don't know how anyone could legitimately say Day had a better season than Zborovskiy. Zborovskiy had more points for all the talk that Zborovskiy is just some big plug who can't move and Day is such a "modern defenseman." We also know who was better defensively. And Zborovskiy was named a WHL First Team All-Star. Those awards go to the best players in the league. Ian Cole or David Savard aren't gonna make the NHL First Team. Those spots are reserved for the widely acknowledged best players.

As for your contention that Day is a better prospect, I don't know. We aren't talking about Buchnevich vs. Fogarty here, so its probably pretty close. I have Zborovskiy five spots higher, I think he's a better prospect, I like his chances to stick in the NHL more than Day's due to his vastly superior defensive game. Day could be better, its possible. But I get it, for some fans, they see guys who are labeled as skaters and puck movers and they love their game, and then see some who are labeled as good, smart defenders, and they don't like them. I like all our prospects and judge them based on their play and skill-sets, I don't know what you are really trying to get at here.
 
Antithesis said:
Isn't Sean Day AHL eligible this year? I seem to remember he and several other of our prospects were supposed to be old enough for AHL duty this season.
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with Day, its not age, but that as exceptional player status, at 19, he already has 4 full OHL seasons, so can AHL

Fontaine was drafted at 19 so is already 20
 
Windsor had a clear cut #1D in Sergachev and then a more or less even 2-4 including Day who you can argue is better or worse until you are blue in the face. This D as a group was widely acknowledged to be the best in all juniors. Given his age, skill set and the rate of improvement from the last season, I'd take our guy any Day of the week.
 
Can someone who does Twitter ask one of the beat guys about Paliotta and his QO status? Really curious about that one.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
Sorry, this post below is more what I was responding to, wasn't really knocking what you said. Gorden is trying to pick a fight, saw it from a mile away.



I don't consider Zborovskiy one of our best prospects either, so again, you are just looking for a fight thats not there. I think Day had a good season, an improvement on the last season, but I can only go by what I see and read. From what I read, OHL and Windsor pushed back when I defended him, so while I will defend Rangers prospects, you gotta take the opinion of those who watch these CHL games more than us into account. The point totals from Day were good, not great. His current skill-set and play doesn't seem to match his reputation with some fans.

And I don't know how anyone could legitimately say Day had a better season than Zborovskiy. Zborovskiy had more points for all the talk that Zborovskiy is just some big plug who can't move and Day is such a "modern defenseman." We also know who was better defensively. And Zborovskiy was named a WHL First Team All-Star. Those awards go to the best players in the league. Ian Cole or David Savard aren't gonna make the NHL First Team. Those spots are reserved for the widely acknowledged best players.

As for your contention that Day is a better prospect, I don't know. We aren't talking about Buchnevich vs. Fogarty here, so its probably pretty close. I have Zborovskiy five spots higher, I think he's a better prospect, I like his chances to stick in the NHL more than Day's due to his vastly superior defensive game. Day could be better, its possible. But I get it, for some fans, they see guys who are labeled as skaters and puck movers and they love their game, and then see some who are labeled as good, smart defenders, and they don't like them. I like all our prospects and judge them based on their play and skill-sets, I don't know what you are really trying to get at here.
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No one was trying to pick a fight...

It's nice that he won awards and put up some numbers on a stacked team, but at the next level those things really don't matter.

Skating and being able to move a puck are critically important regardless of whether you're an offensive D or a Defensive D these days. Zborovskiy does neither of these things well enough to really make an impact at the NHL level. Again if you can't do either of these things to a certain level, you're going to have a bad time in the NHL, assuming that Zborovskiy can even make it (same goes for Day, but I like his chances much more.)

To this point, he has shown nothing that indicates that he will improve either of those things to be a legitimate NHL prospect. If you say that you're judging these 2 based on their skill sets, you're not doing so in a matter that I would consider unbiased and fair.
 
Geoff Gorden said:
No one was trying to pick a fight...

It's nice that he won awards and put up some numbers on a stacked team, but at the next level those things really don't matter.

Skating and being able to move a puck are critically important regardless of whether you're an offensive D or a Defensive D these days. Zborovskiy does neither of these things well enough to really make an impact at the NHL level. Again if you can't do either of these things to a certain level, you're going to have a bad time in the NHL, assuming that Zborovskiy can even make it (same goes for Day, but I like his chances much more.)

To this point, he has shown nothing that indicates that he will improve either of those things to be a legitimate NHL prospect. If you say that you're judging these 2 based on their skill sets, you're not doing so in a matter that I would consider unbiased and fair.
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Just as I suspected. You dislike Zborovskiy because hurr durr "big, must skate bad, and move the puck poorly." One thing I know for near certain is that most of you would like him if he had a CF% of 50+. He'd then be Josh Manson. I was reading an article today on grades for the Rangers pick, and I was scrolling down the grades. Guess what grade the defensive defenseman got?

But why did you mention me and why is this even something you brought up? There's no relevance to anything relating to Day. They aren't really all that similar. You are obviously looking for a fight. I'm not dumb. You mentioned me, you know I'm fair to Zborovskiy unlike a number of people here, so you wanted a fight to try to prove Day's credentials to me, as if I hate Day and need to be made an example of. To do so, you take it out on a Rangers prospect by insinuating that he's just a big plug who can't play the "ultra modern" brand of hockey.

I didn't even care about your little initial joke. Thats fine, man. I shrugged that off, just got to the actual content of the post. But then you made this into a Day vs. Zborovskiy thing, as if I was arguing for one and against the other, something that is evident wasn't happening since this discussion actually had nothing to do with Zborovskiy until you mentioned him. Thats not right, and you know it.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
Just as I suspected. You dislike Zborovskiy because hurr durr "big, must skate bad, and move the puck poorly." One thing I know for near certain is that most of you would like him if he had a CF% of 50+. He'd then be Josh Manson. I see this stuff on command. I was reading an article today on grades for the Rangers pick, and I was scrolling down the grades. Guess what grade the defensive defenseman got?

But why did you mention me and why is this even something you brought up? There's no relevance to anything relating to Day. They are really all that similar. You are obviously looking for a fight. I'm not dumb. You mentioned me, you know I'm fair to Zborovskiy unlike a number of people here, so you wanted a fight to try to prove Day's credentials to me, as if I hate Day and need to be made an example of. To do so, you take it out on a Rangers prospect by insinuating that he's just a big plug who can't play the "ultra modern" brand of hockey.
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I've seen him play, he doesn't skate or move the puck all that well. Does it well enough at the WHL level, but its not at an NHL level.

I actually went to look up Sergachev on the site that Tobbe provided (curious to see where he stacked up, turns out all I had to do was look down a few rows.) when I typed in "ser" not only did Sergachev pop up, but so did Sergei. When I saw what I saw, I thought I'd mention it. Wasn't to pick a fight.

As for being a big plug who can't play a modern brand of hockey, yeah I am saying that. Doesn't mean that he can't improve on his skills or that hes a complete lost cause, but what I've seen indicates that to bet he case IMO and the stats that Tobbe provided back that up.
 
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