Prospect Info: Rangers Prospects Thread (Stats in Post #1; Updated 5.29.18)

[Ola]

Re: Lias Andersson. I had a bit of a bias confirmation experience.

A former SHL player I talked to - not specifically about Lias, just shooting the breeze - mentioned what a great talent he is. The impression I get from the Swedish hockey community is that he is regarded a tier below all-star prospects like Dahlin or Petterson but above recent "graduates" like Kempe.

I thought so beforehand but it is kind of interesting how the former players, present coaches/ prospects trainers view him in a very positive light.

It's kind of funny, these guys barely even mention elite level prospects but really focus on guys a tier below or guys who have an interesting trajectory.

Yeah, Lias is and should be held very high. I think I posted about it a while back, but I also talked with an equipment guy who have worked with a team that Lias played on. This is one of those uber critical older guys who always just shakes their head at everything and anyone. If he had worked with McDavid and I had asked him about if he thought McDavid could play in the NHL I wouldn't have been surprised if he would have lol'ed and said something like 'that kid is always in such a hurry that he can't even keep track of his own equipment, he will be lucky to stand behind counter at McDonalds in two years', but when I asked him about Lias his face just broke into a huge smile and he talked about him like it was some kind of fine wine or Mozart concert...

I definitely think that Lias is much more than about being hungry and going to the right places on the ice etc. I have numerous times been very impressed when I watched him on just how easily and fast he adopts to games and expand his register on the ice. How easily he pulls things off that should be hard for him. Like normally if say a kid like Lettieri -- who has a good RHS and can play in a shooter role on the PP -- plays 40 games 8 minutes a night on a 4th line in the NHL before someone goes down with an injury and he gets a shot on the PP; the first games its not pretty. For various reasons. He is rusty, hasn't practiced it in PP situations during training or in games for a long time. Nerves, you can't think too much on the PP. Etc etc etc. But in these situations its like Lias genuinely loves to embrace any challenge and new situation, executes perfectly and without zero hesitation. Playing a couple of games in a row without getting any top chances, and then he gets a 2 on 1 out of nowhere in a very pressured situation and he executes it perfectly with a ton of patience.

I just think he must start getting his feats moving a little faster, because the above is for me a sign of a very high underlying natural skill level.

 

[Ola]

The major North American leagues offer pensions as well, but you obviously need to meet service time minimums (like every other pension in the US).

Interesting! How does this function in relation to the cap and the reported salary of a player? It must be included in HRR right?

I am a lawyer but I don't do anything related to tax or sport law issues, but every know and again I end up to tax lawyers or agents at dinners or something like that. And you of course read a lot of things too. In Europe there are zero regulations on contracts. The sport teams are not franchises owned by anyone, its fundamentally an organization owned and controlled by the fans, the members of it. Membership is like 10-20 bucks. In other words, management is playing with house money so to speak...

We think that NHL GMs are -- crazy -- but they can't do anything under the cap. I don't know how it works in the KHL, but in soccer for example these guys can besides their salary be getting a thick bunch of paper with privileges and benefits. Its like 'Life time rehabilitation remuneration to be used for doctors and massages etc -- up to 2k USD per month', 'Life time free taxi in the city of like Marsellie (or whereever the player played)', 'Free education after the career, up to 100k USD per year for 6 years', free tutors for your kids up to 100k per year. My point is just, the reported salaries in Europe are what they are, more of an indication than anything definitive. AND with that said, it can work both ways. Sometimes a player is said to be getting 6m USD per year, but 4m of that shall be paid out monthly over the coming 30 years. I saw a contract with a very good Brazilian soccer player in the top tier league in Sweden a few years ago, he got an apartment, a car, free food on days with practice or games (at the clubhouse when not travelling), 2k USD per month, and then about 30k USD per month in pension payments that would be paid out monthly over 20 years after he turned 35. Probably got a signing bonus of like 100k USD when signing the contract. But that contract was reported in the press as being 2k USD per month.

 

[nyr2k2]

Interesting! How does this function in relation to the cap and the reported salary of a player? It must be included in HRR right?

It has no bearing on the cap or their salary number. Generally it's just an amount of money paid yearly based off of years of service and depending on the sport, the player's salary. Here's an article about it: Still the ‘poor cousin,’ new CBA improves pension plan for average NHLers

 

[Edge]

Yeah, Lias is and should be held very high. I think I posted about it a while back, but I also talked with an equipment guy who have worked with a team that Lias played on. This is one of those uber critical older guys who always just shakes their head at everything and anyone. If he had worked with McDavid and I had asked him about if he thought McDavid could play in the NHL I wouldn't have been surprised if he would have lol'ed and said something like 'that kid is always in such a hurry that he can't even keep track of his own equipment, he will be lucky to stand behind counter at McDonalds in two years', but when I asked him about Lias his face just broke into a huge smile and he talked about him like it was some kind of fine wine or Mozart concert...

I definitely think that Lias is much more than about being hungry and going to the right places on the ice etc. I have numerous times been very impressed when I watched him on just how easily and fast he adopts to games and expand his register on the ice. How easily he pulls things off that should be hard for him. Like normally if say a kid like Lettieri -- who has a good RHS and can play in a shooter role on the PP -- plays 40 games 8 minutes a night on a 4th line in the NHL before someone goes down with an injury and he gets a shot on the PP; the first games its not pretty. For various reasons. He is rusty, hasn't practiced it in PP situations during training or in games for a long time. Nerves, you can't think too much on the PP. Etc etc etc. But in these situations its like Lias genuinely loves to embrace any challenge and new situation, executes perfectly and without zero hesitation. Playing a couple of games in a row without getting any top chances, and then he gets a 2 on 1 out of nowhere in a very pressured situation and he executes it perfectly with a ton of patience.

I just think he must start getting his feats moving a little faster, because the above is for me a sign of a very high underlying natural skill level.

I think we almost tend to forget how smart Andersson is. Yeah he works hard, yeah he gets himself into good spots and adapts, etc.

But I don’t know if we I’ve him quite enough credit for his understanding of the game. To me, a lot of the above is a product of that understanding.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I think we almost tend to forget how smart Andersson is. Yeah he works hard, yeah he gets himself into good spots and adapts, etc.

But I don’t know if we I’ve him quite enough credit for his understanding of the game. To me, a lot of the above is a product of that understanding.

Exactly. This is what I've been saying all season. The way he reads the game and shows up where he needs to be, is great. His sense of awareness is one of his best assets.

 

[bobbop]

Yeah, Lias is and should be held very high. I think I posted about it a while back, but I also talked with an equipment guy who have worked with a team that Lias played on. This is one of those uber critical older guys who always just shakes their head at everything and anyone. If he had worked with McDavid and I had asked him about if he thought McDavid could play in the NHL I wouldn't have been surprised if he would have lol'ed and said something like 'that kid is always in such a hurry that he can't even keep track of his own equipment, he will be lucky to stand behind counter at McDonalds in two years', but when I asked him about Lias his face just broke into a huge smile and he talked about him like it was some kind of fine wine or Mozart concert...

I definitely think that Lias is much more than about being hungry and going to the right places on the ice etc. I have numerous times been very impressed when I watched him on just how easily and fast he adopts to games and expand his register on the ice. How easily he pulls things off that should be hard for him. Like normally if say a kid like Lettieri -- who has a good RHS and can play in a shooter role on the PP -- plays 40 games 8 minutes a night on a 4th line in the NHL before someone goes down with an injury and he gets a shot on the PP; the first games its not pretty. For various reasons. He is rusty, hasn't practiced it in PP situations during training or in games for a long time. Nerves, you can't think too much on the PP. Etc etc etc. But in these situations its like Lias genuinely loves to embrace any challenge and new situation, executes perfectly and without zero hesitation. Playing a couple of games in a row without getting any top chances, and then he gets a 2 on 1 out of nowhere in a very pressured situation and he executes it perfectly with a ton of patience.

I just think he must start getting his feats moving a little faster, because the above is for me a sign of a very high underlying natural skill level.

One other small point - leadership.

Lias has future captain of the Rangers written all over him..

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

One other small point - leadership.

Lias has future captain of the Rangers written all over him..

He'd be just the 2nd European captain of the Rangers if that happens.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

One other small point - leadership.

Lias has future captain of the Rangers written all over him..

Between Lias, Howden and Lindgren they have a solid group to choose from.

Thats with out taking into account who they may draft over the next 2 years/add via trade.

 

[aufheben]

I remember very well when Callahan and then Dubinsky came up. Callahan was a — very — early cut his rookie year. I think we cleared like 4 players to get two even teams for scrimmages and Cally was one of those cuts. He wasn’t very good, but he shot at everything that moved in the AHL and everything went in for him. Scored on 14.5% of all shots and he had 245 shots in 60 games. He wasn’t good when he was called up either. Very one dimensional, hustled but he wasn’t that smart with the puck nor that physical. He kept improving for like 4-5 years before he became a good top 6 when he peaked.

Dubinsky mixed some highs with god awful plays. The game was so fast for him that he was flipping all over the place, everyone was like who is that Dubinsky kid who can’t stand on his feet. Looked like a drunk elk on a newly frozen lake. Improved so much the coming 2-3 years.

Lettieri reminds me of those two in the sense of how stubborn he is and the killer instinct he has. I don’t know if ‘failing is not an option’ is a good description, something like that.

I remember very well when Callahan and then Dubinsky came up. Callahan was a — very — early cut his rookie year. I think we cleared like 4 players to get two even teams for scrimmages and Cally was one of those cuts. He wasn’t very good, but he shot at everything that moved in the AHL and everything went in for him. Scored on 14.5% of all shots and he had 245 shots in 60 games. He wasn’t good when he was called up either. Very one dimensional, hustled but he wasn’t that smart with the puck nor that physical. He kept improving for like 4-5 years before he became a good top 6 when he peaked.

Dubinsky mixed some highs with god awful plays. The game was so fast for him that he was flipping all over the place, everyone was like who is that Dubinsky kid who can’t stand on his feet. Looked like a drunk elk on a newly frozen lake. Improved so much the coming 2-3 years.

Lettieri reminds me of those two in the sense of how stubborn he is and the killer instinct he has. I don’t know if ‘failing is not an option’ is a good description, something like that.

Interesting comparisons, Ola. What really stood out to me with Lettieri was his decisiveness and effort.

People expect a lot out of prospects, which is fair, but a player can have flaws and don’t be a net negative. Buchnevich is a former 3rd round pick who has already shown that at the very least, he can and will be a 2nd line forward in the NHL. That in itself is a huge win to me, but sometimes people seem...I don’t know, like deeply concerned about him.

 

[Ranger Ric]

According to Cap Friendly on June 7 Marek Mazanec signed a one year two way contract with the Rangers. The Rangers now have 5 goalies under contract for next year. While the Rangers could sign a veteran backup for Lundquist and have Mazanec and Giorgiev and in Hartford and Nell and Halverson in Portland, it seems more likely that the Rangers may believe that Mazanec or Giorgiev can serve as the backup.

 

[nyr2k2]

My assumption was that they'd either sign Mazanec and play Georgiev as Henrik's backup, or not sign Mazanec, sign an NHL backup and then have Georgiev the starter in Hartford. Guess this move addresses that.

Though, I suppose they could still sign an NHL-caliber backup and have that guy, Mazanec and Georgiev battle it out for the NHL spot with the other two being waived (if necessary) and sent to Hartford.

 

[eco's bones]

To me Lias is a very talented (not elite) player and an intangible guy. IMO he could turn into something like an Alfredsson or an O'Reilly.

 

[NYR Viper]

To me Lias is a very talented (not elite) player and an intangible guy. IMO he could turn into something like an Alfredsson or an O'Reilly.

Ryan O’Reilly would be a coup at #6 overall. No ifs ands or buts about it

 

[eco's bones]

Ryan O’Reilly would be a coup at #6 overall. No ifs ands or buts about it

I remember the scouting report on O'Reilly. His skating got panned pretty hard. That was the thing holding him back---and yet he made his team in his draft year and he was a 2nd rounder. He was an intangibles guy too. A guy with a two way game--who could think the game--who was a high compete guy with leadership ability. These are boxes that you tick off with Andersson and Andersson's skating is more average--O'Reilly's in his draft year was below average. I really think though that there's a very good chance Lias plays more wing than center. His face-off ability is pretty good but center's these days need to cover a lot of territory. Right now that's not really a strength for him. I also like the way Lias grinds the corners which is more of a wing thing.

Anyway we'll see. We have a new season coming up. I wouldn't be surprised to see both Andersson and Chytil make the team but I also wouldn't be surprised if either or both of them spend at least some time in Hartford next year. They are still very young.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I remember the scouting report on O'Reilly. His skating got panned pretty hard. That was the thing holding him back---and yet he made his team in his draft year and he was a 2nd rounder. He was an intangibles guy too. A guy with a two way game--who could think the game--who was a high compete guy with leadership ability. These are boxes that you tick off with Andersson and Andersson's skating is more average--O'Reilly's in his draft year was below average. I really think though that there's a very good chance Lias plays more wing than center. His face-off ability is pretty good but center's these days need to cover a lot of territory. Right now that's not really a strength for him. I also like the way Lias grinds the corners which is more of a wing thing.

Anyway we'll see. We have a new season coming up. I wouldn't be surprised to see both Andersson and Chytil make the team but I also wouldn't be surprised if either or both of them spend at least some time in Hartford next year. They are still very young.

When you put it that way, it screams Lehtinen to me. An O'Reilly like player on the wing, responsible 2-way player who doesn't shy away to put effort in along the boards.

 

[eco's bones]

When you put it that way, it screams Lehtinen to me. An O'Reilly like player on the wing, responsible 2-way player who doesn't shy away to put effort in along the boards.

I see a lot of Toews in Lias too. Just the overall no nonsense attitude. Not happy about losing--well that was made very plain when he chucked the silver medal into the crowd. I think Lias is going to be a productive player but not necessarily a huge point producer. He's got a sneaky shot though and he can pick corners through mazes of players. Actually his goals seem to come in a variety of ways. That's always good.

 

[Edge]

Lias is a guy whose point totals could climb depending on who you pair him with. He has the uncanny ability to raise the game of skill players, and in turn get a boost from said skill. Whether that’s at wing or center remains to be seen, but I think he’s got a good shot at being a top six forward — if not a “first line” player.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I see a lot of Toews in Lias too. Just the overall no nonsense attitude. Not happy about losing--well that was made very plain when he chucked the silver medal into the crowd. I think Lias is going to be a productive player but not necessarily a huge point producer. He's got a sneaky shot though and he can pick corners through mazes of players. Actually his goals seem to come in a variety of ways. That's always good.

Yes. I just think people need to realize that when player comparisons based on style, don't automatically are comparisons based on performance.

Chytil was compared to Malkin, Andersson was compared to Bergeron and O'Reilly. Now in this draft Kotkaniemi is compared to Kopitar. That's all about style.

 

[Edge]

Yes. I just think people need to realize that when player comparisons based on style, don't automatically are comparisons based on performance.

Chytil was compared to Malkin, Andersson was compared to Bergeron and O'Reilly. Now in this draft Kotkaniemi is compared to Kopitar. That's all about style.

This is a really important point. It’s often difficult to give people a rough idea of someone’s style because the minute you throw out a name, it tends to become literal.

 

[eco's bones]

Yes. I just think people need to realize that when player comparisons based on style, don't automatically are comparisons based on performance.

Chytil was compared to Malkin, Andersson was compared to Bergeron and O'Reilly. Now in this draft Kotkaniemi is compared to Kopitar. That's all about style.

I've mentioned several different players with Lias because I see certain elements in Lias's character or specific areas of his play that compare to those guys. I don't really think that he's a clone of any in particular---he will eventually become his own player and maybe a player you compare other prospects to in a few years.

Maybe because he's Czech I look at Chytil's big can and tree trunk legs and thing Jaromir Jagr. Malkin would be more than nice too. I really think that's a reach to expect any young player to produce like those two guys though. IMO he's got a chance to be a legit 1st line center---maybe in the top 10 to 15 in the league. His floor is more like a very good second line center. Andersson's a top 6 player--maybe a 1st liner--I agree with that. IMO if he's a first line player it's much more likely as a wing. He is potential captain material though.

 

[Irishguy42]

 

[Kovalev27]

You mean what the NHL was like between 2009 and 2017? When 3 teams won 8 out of 9 Stanley Cups?

How many teams in the NHL actually spend up to the cap?

that's an absurd comment. just absurd from someone I know watches nhl hockey every night.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

that's an absurd comment. just absurd from someone I know watches nhl hockey every night.

Is the difference between Chicago, Pittsburgh, Los Angeles and Buffalo, Arizona, Vancouver really that much different from the difference in talent in the KHL?

The big difference with the KHL is that they bring in new teams to grow the sport, while the NHL went 12 years without any changes after the salary cap was introduced (Not counting the one relocation).

 

[nyr2k2]

Is the difference between Chicago, Pittsburgh, Los Angeles and Buffalo, Arizona, Vancouver really that much different from the difference in talent in the KHL?

The big difference with the KHL is that they bring in new teams to grow the sport, while the NHL went 12 years without any changes after the salary cap was introduced (Not counting the one relocation).

The KHL is actually dropping two teams for next season, to get down to 25. That's after they dropped two teams prior to the previous season. So, while they did bring in Jokerit, Riga, Slovan, Minsk, Kunlun, etc., within the past decade, it was probably too much, the league couldn't support itself being that big, and now they're forced to contract. We'll see how it plays out. I'd wager within the next 5 or so years they're down to 20 teams.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The KHL is actually dropping two teams for next season, to get down to 25. That's after they dropped two teams prior to the previous season. So, while they did bring in Jokerit, Riga, Slovan, Minsk, Kunlun, etc., within the past decade, it was probably too much, the league couldn't support itself being that big, and now they're forced to contract. We'll see how it plays out. I'd wager within the next 5 or so years they're down to 20 teams.

Yes, and that's a good thing. They are trying new things and if it doesn't work out, they cut ties. Medvescak is now in the EBHL. Better for them, but having played in the KHL for a few years, it did help progress hockey in Croatia.