Prospect Info: Rangers Prospect Rankings: (Fall 2020) - #20

[Leetch3]

Tarnstrom....add Edstrom

 

[True Blue]

Gotta say. The Tarnstrom thing is pretty facinating. The guy was just a third round pick this year. Yes, he is neck in neck to be the 20th overall prospect, passed by some of the others in his class. This prospect will be interesting going forward. Either management has seen something that clearly no other fan has or it will appear to be a pretty big reach.

 

[kovazub94]

Gotta say. The Tarnstrom thing is pretty facinating. The guy was just a third round pick this year. Yes, he is neck in neck to be the 20th overall prospect, passed by some of the others in his class. This prospect will be interesting going forward. Either management has seen something that clearly no other fan has or it will appear to be a pretty big reach.

I'd bet on the management with no disrespect to the fans.

I think Tarnstrom's falling in our ranking is specifically due to lack (or lesser degree) of info or reactions from those in the know on him as compared to Berard and Vierling. These NA prospects that were picked later almost instantaneously received a "steal in the 5th round of the draft" moniker while we barely got any reaction regarding the Swede.

I have a difficult time believing that the Rangers would go ahead with choosing a lesser prospect over 30 spots ahead of their next choice for some strategic planning reason.

 

[True Blue]

II have a difficult time believing that the Rangers would go ahead with choosing a lesser prospect over 30 spots ahead of their next choice for some strategic planning reason.

I would think so as well. But this may be the widest spread between management's beliefs and the representative fan that I have seen in a while.

 

[nyr2k2]

I'd bet on the management with no disrespect to the fans.

I think Tarnstrom's falling in our ranking is specifically due to lack (or lesser degree) of info or reactions from those in the know on him as compared to Berard and Vierling. These NA prospects that were picked later almost instantaneously received a "steal in the 5th round of the draft" moniker while we barely got any reaction regarding the Swede.

I have a difficult time believing that the Rangers would go ahead with choosing a lesser prospect over 30 spots ahead of their next choice for some strategic planning reason.

The immediate response to Tarnstrom, even from someone like Ola (I believe it was him) who knew the player, was that people were surprised he was picked that high. And then people look at his rankings--McKeen's had him #165, NHL CSS had him #47 for Euro skaters (which is usually 140-160 overall), and Future Considerations had him #178. He went #92.

Berard was #93 by Future Considerations, #97 by TSN, #40 by McKeen's, #68 by McKenzie, #45 by CSS (NA skaters). Vierling was ranked #72 by Future Considerations, #44 by TSN, #64 by McKeen's, #90 by McKenzie, and #66 by CSS (NA skaters).

So, without knowing much about them, you could just look and see that Berard and Vierling appeared to be "good value" picks compared to their rankings and Tarnstrom was a reach based on his rankings--from the few places that even ranked him. Now the rankings don't necessarily mean anything, but I think if you knew little about these guys you could just as easily say, "I'd bet on McKenzie/McKeen's/CSS..." and so on.

I think the immediate aftermath of Tarnstrom, with the mixed reports and reactions, felt an awful lot like his fellow countryman Raganrsson--who was also rated by the same three outlets as Tarstrom, and had him #260 (FC), #152 (McKeen's), and #44 (CSS, Euro skaters).

I have faith in our scouts but there is lots of information and lots of different opinions out there on every player, from reputable people.

 

[kovazub94]

I would think so as well. But this may be the widest spread between management's beliefs and the representative fan that I have seen in a while.

My recallection might be wrong but I'm going back to 2015 when I had questions about the fanbase ranking recent draftees Kovacs, Saarela and Morrison.

 

[nyr2k2]

My recallection might be wrong but I'm going back to 2015 when I had questions about the fanbase ranking recent draftees Kovacs, Saarela and Morrison.

Prospect Info: - Rangers Prospect Poll: #25 (LAST SPOT)

I can't find the "final" ranking post but that's the final poll.

Kovacs was 11. Saarela was 14. Morrison was 17. So there, we went with the scout's order (other than Zborovskiy who was 19 despite going before Saarela and Morrison.

 

[nyr2k2]

Prospect Info: - Rangers Prospect Poll: #25 (LAST SPOT)

I can't find the "final" ranking post but that's the final poll.

Kovacs was 11. Saarela was 14. Morrison was 17. So there, we went with the scout's order (other than Zborovskiy who was 19 despite going before Saarela and Morrison.

I think Kovacs is the most talented player there, despite his troubles. It is the off-ice stuff, I think that really prevented him from succeeding (coupled with what that off-ice stuff did to him mentally and emotionally). Saarela is the only NHL player there. Zborovskiy was never that good save for his uber-team-inflated season in the WHL, though he is a KHL regular now. Kovacs became a very good SHL player, but still a headcase.

 

[kovazub94]

Prospect Info: - Rangers Prospect Poll: #25 (LAST SPOT)

I can't find the "final" ranking post but that's the final poll.

Kovacs was 11. Saarela was 14. Morrison was 17. So there, we went with the scout's order (other than Zborovskiy who was 19 despite going before Saarela and Morrison.

That might be it.

 

[nyr2k2]

That might be it.

Yeah, without looking I would guess that this board consistently ranks goalies and defensive defensemen (think Zbo, Crawley, Noreau, etc.) consistently lower relative to their recently-drafted peers. Also probably big forwards with perceived lower upside.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I'd imagine the Rangers had Tarnstrom higher on their boards because of his age and late-season surge in SuperElit. He's one of the younger players in the class and finished his SuperElit season at a PPG pace. Players that fit that mold in their D-1 usually favor well to becoming NHLers in some capacity down the line. He already got off to a good start in SuperElit this season, and I think earned a promotion to the Allsvenskan club a week or so ago.

I haven't seen much of him outside of twitter clips here and there, but it appears like he's off to a pretty solid start for a late 3rd round pick.

 

[nyr2k2]

I'd imagine the Rangers had Tarnstrom higher on their boards because of his age and late-season surge in SuperElit. He's one of the younger players in the class and finished his SuperElit season at a PPG pace. Players that fit that mold in their D-1 usually favor well to becoming NHLers in some capacity down the line. He already got off to a good start in SuperElit this season, and I think earned a promotion to the Allsvenskan club a week or so ago.

I haven't seen much of him outside of twitter clips here and there, but it appears like he's off to a pretty solid start for a late 3rd round pick.

He had early-season games with the Allsvenskan team but for the past couple weeks has been exclusively in J20. I believe the J20 team only has one game this week, so maybe he gets a look in an Allsvenskan game. He's doing well in J20 but nothing super noteworthy.

I agree though that they liked that he was young and probably see a good bit of upside.

 

[kovazub94]

I'd imagine the Rangers had Tarnstrom higher on their boards because of his age and late-season surge in SuperElit. He's one of the younger players in the class and finished his SuperElit season at a PPG pace. Players that fit that mold in their D-1 usually favor well to becoming NHLers in some capacity down the line. He already got off to a good start in SuperElit this season, and I think earned a promotion to the Allsvenskan club a week or so ago.

I haven't seen much of him outside of twitter clips here and there, but it appears like he's off to a pretty solid start for a late 3rd round pick.

@Amazing Kreiderman , Steven how tall are Tarnstrom's parents?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

@Amazing Kreiderman , Steven how tall are Tarnstrom's parents?

His dad is 6'1"

 

[Good Intentions]

The challenge with Lindbom was where he was picked and his injuries since. From a talent perspective, he's solid goalie prospect. It's just a matter of keeping him on the ice.

I get people's unhappiness with taking him in the second round, and that's a valid issue, but that's one of those things beyond his control as a prospect.

As for Tarnstrom --- I kind of feel like his low-end might be more in that fourth line role that Richards' is projected for. But the upside of being a third, maybe even pushing a tweener role on the second line makes him an interesting prospect at this point of the poll.

Good commentary, as you have more insight than I do -

Ragnarsson, Tarnstrom, Lindbom...It's still early, but not a great pattern here - and not a good look from the jump.

 

[kovazub94]

I'd imagine the Rangers had Tarnstrom higher on their boards because of his age and late-season surge in SuperElit. He's one of the younger players in the class and finished his SuperElit season at a PPG pace. Players that fit that mold in their D-1 usually favor well to becoming NHLers in some capacity down the line. He already got off to a good start in SuperElit this season, and I think earned a promotion to the Allsvenskan club a week or so ago.

I haven't seen much of him outside of twitter clips here and there, but it appears like he's off to a pretty solid start for a late 3rd round pick.

This is what I got trying to understand Rangers' plan in drafting this trio. If it makes sense I'd be evaluating them more as "2021 picks" in terms of assessing their value.

In my mind I did the same when looking at how management "reached" for Chytil at #21. Everything else being equal his D+1 performance would've made him closer to be around top-10/top-12 in 2018.

 

[Harbour Dog]

The immediate response to Tarnstrom, even from someone like Ola (I believe it was him) who knew the player, was that people were surprised he was picked that high. And then people look at his rankings--McKeen's had him #165, NHL CSS had him #47 for Euro skaters (which is usually 140-160 overall), and Future Considerations had him #178. He went #92.

Berard was #93 by Future Considerations, #97 by TSN, #40 by McKeen's, #68 by McKenzie, #45 by CSS (NA skaters). Vierling was ranked #72 by Future Considerations, #44 by TSN, #64 by McKeen's, #90 by McKenzie, and #66 by CSS (NA skaters).

So, without knowing much about them, you could just look and see that Berard and Vierling appeared to be "good value" picks compared to their rankings and Tarnstrom was a reach based on his rankings--from the few places that even ranked him. Now the rankings don't necessarily mean anything, but I think if you knew little about these guys you could just as easily say, "I'd bet on McKenzie/McKeen's/CSS..." and so on.

I think the immediate aftermath of Tarnstrom, with the mixed reports and reactions, felt an awful lot like his fellow countryman Raganrsson--who was also rated by the same three outlets as Tarstrom, and had him #260 (FC), #152 (McKeen's), and #44 (CSS, Euro skaters).

I have faith in our scouts but there is lots of information and lots of different opinions out there on every player, from reputable people.

Also, The Black Book never even scouted Tarnstrom. It's possible he was the highest picked guy they never had any information on.

 

[kovazub94]

Good commentary, as you have more insight than I do -

Ragnarsson, Tarnstrom, Lindbom...It's still early, but not a great pattern here - and not a good look from the jump.

Tarnstrom was literally just drafted. Lindhom has been plagued by injuries - not a question of talent.

Don't see how you can build a "pattern" here.

 

[Edge]

Good commentary, as you have more insight than I do -

Ragnarsson, Tarnstrom, Lindbom...It's still early, but not a great pattern here - and not a good look from the jump.

Lindstrom's biggest problem to date has been staying healthy --- which is incredibly frustrating.

But it is important to keep in mind that when we start getting into second, third and fourth round picks, the odds of success drop considerably.

Those rounds have the potential to produce some real hidden gems, but the odds always lean toward a guy who is more likely to miss than hit, or advance just enough to fall into the "close, but no cigar" realm.

 

[nyr2k2]

Lindstrom's biggest problem to date has been staying healthy --- which is incredibly frustrating.

But it is important to keep in mind that when we start getting into second, third and fourth round picks, the odds of success drop considerably.

Those rounds have the potential to produce some real hidden gems, but the odds always lean toward a guy who is more likely to miss than hit, or advance just enough to fall into the "close, but no cigar" realm.

Lindbom killed me because he was the 39th pick. At pick 39 you have guys who were still fringe first round picks on the board. If he were the 53rd pick or something, it's less of an issue. But a high second, there's not a huge difference between that and a late first.

 

[Edge]

Lindbom killed me because he was the 39th pick. At pick 39 you have guys who were still fringe first round picks on the board. If he were the 53rd pick or something, it's less of an issue. But a high second, there's not a huge difference between that and a late first.

I get that, but I also feel that we need to seperate that aspect from how we judge him as a prospect. Otherwise we run the risk of judging him by the Rangers decision on when to draft him, rather than his actual potential as a prospect.

Truthfully, that can sometimes be easier said than done.

 

[nyr2k2]

I get that, but I also feel that we need to seperate that aspect from how we judge him as a prospect. Otherwise we run the risk of judging him by the Rangers decision on when to draft him, rather than his actual potential as a prospect.

Truthfully, that can sometimes be easier said than done.

Absolutely. I have made repeated mention that I don't place a heavy emphasis on where someone was drafted. I evaluate them on their own merits.

Even in evaluating Lindbom on his own, it still sucks. He had some good international performances three years ago when he was 17, but since then it has just been injury after injury, sandwiching poor play. And of course, he's injured now.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I get that, but I also feel that we need to seperate that aspect from how we judge him as a prospect. Otherwise we run the risk of judging him by the Rangers decision on when to draft him, rather than his actual potential as a prospect.

Truthfully, that can sometimes be easier said than done.

I will always hold it over his head that we should've picked Akil Thomas, so take that

 

[Good Intentions]

Lindstrom's biggest problem to date has been staying healthy --- which is incredibly frustrating.

But it is important to keep in mind that when we start getting into second, third and fourth round picks, the odds of success drop considerably.

Those rounds have the potential to produce some real hidden gems, but the odds always lean toward a guy who is more likely to miss than hit, or advance just enough to fall into the "close, but no cigar" realm.

Lindbom, you mean. Lindstrom would be something else, ha.

Ragnarsson and Tarnstrom, both Swedes - sons of journeyman players. Both drafted a bit higher than anticipated. Lindbom, another Swede off the board in a very high slot. It's a pattern.

 

[Good Intentions]

Tarnstrom was literally just drafted. Lindhom has been plagued by injuries - not a question of talent.

Don't see how you can build a "pattern" here.

See above.