Rangers Prospect Ranking: (Winter 2019) - #7
- Thread starter The Crypto Guy
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Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
Girardi was just fine...
Even if you do consider Girardi fine, he was a PPG player in Bantam.
Ryan Lindgren, who is infamous for being an offensive black hole, had 88 points in 55 games in Bantam hockey at 15.
Hajek had 11 points in 36 u16 games in the Czech Republic.
I don't know how Czech u16 compares to North American Bantam hockey, but it's alarming to me that Hajek couldn't dominate the other children. Even the worst NHL players typically dominate the other children.
If he's that bad offensively, he better be that good defensively, but if were that good defensively, he'd be talented enough to score in bad leagues.
Amazing Kreiderman
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- Apr 11, 2011
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Even if you do consider Girardi fine, he was a PPG player in Bantam.
Ryan Lindgren, who is infamous for being an offensive black hole, had 88 points in 55 games in Bantam hockey at 15.
Hajek had 11 points in 36 u16 games in the Czech Republic.
I don't know how Czech u16 compares to North American Bantam hockey, but it's alarming to me that Hajek couldn't dominate the other children. Even the worst NHL players typically dominate the other children.
If he's that bad offensively, he better be that good defensively, but if were that good defensively, he'd be talented enough to score in bad leagues.
When Hajek first played in the u16, he was 12 years old. He was then moved up to the u18 the following season at age 13.
In Europe, players are quickly moved up in age groups if they dominate at their own age level. Look at Lias, who played in SuperElit (which is under20) at age 16 and he played in the SHL at age 17
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
Well he only played 3 games that year, and it was his 13YO season, but yeah, very impressive path.
And then he played in the same league at 14 and couldn't score. (Yes, he got a u18 cup of coffee too) Then he played very briefly in the same league at 15, and in a small sample, couldn't score.
Then he went to u18 hockey full-time at 15. Again, very impressive. Also couldn't score. Fared a little better his 16 and 17 YO seasons, before moving up to u20 at 17, which again, is impressive, but again, he couldn't really score.
Then he went to Junior A at 18 and 19. Now he's right at the level he should be. Still doesn't have impressive offense.
Last year, he was an overager in Junior A. Now we've flipped the script on the age argument. 39 points in 58 games.
Now he's about to be 21, and his offense clearly isn't AHL level. We're long past the point where his age alone is impressive. We need results.
This seems like a guy who's built his reputation on "dominating" the level he's in and moving through at an obnoxiously young age. But if he's that dominant, why can't he even sniff being a PPG player? He hasn't even been a 0.75 PPG player. As an overager in Junior A.
Amazing Kreiderman
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I can only speak for EU development because I simply don't know enough of NA junior hockey. Bantam, midget, peewee. It's all the same to me. No clue which is which.
In Europe, they tend to promote players who dominate their own age group rapidly. Both in school and sports. I have a friend who skipped 2 y ears in primary school and then was middle of the pack in a class with kids 2 years older. Sometimes it works, and it encourages them to go further than they have until then, but I've seen examples of kids who are demoralized by no longer being the smartest/best kid in class/on the team.
I was never a big fan of Hajek, but maybe he will prove me wrong. I think Nils Lundkvist is already a better player than Hajek, at a younger age, in s, at the very least equal, league
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
I get that, and it's certainly an argument in his favor.
But there's no set standard for who is good enough to be promoted. Maybe he was misjudged by his club. Maybe he club was poor and a 15YO was their best option at the u18 level.
All I know is, whatever those who promoted him saw, it wasn't points
And he certainly didn't live up to that exceptional status in Junior A where he was finally in the age group he clearly belonged.
GeorgeKaplan
Registered User
I’m just going to say this and step out: he wasn’t an overager, and go look at those Saskatoon Blades teams he was onI get that, and it's certainly an argument in his favor.
But there's no set standard for who is good enough to be promoted. Maybe he was misjudged by his club. Maybe he club was poor and a 15YO was their best option at the u18 level.
All I know is, whatever those who promoted him saw, it wasn't points
Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
GeorgeKaplan
Registered User
Unless I’m missing something, he could’ve gone back for what would be his overage season this year
Always amusing to see our fan based with the idiotic obsession that our defenseman have to score. Last time I checked, our defense hasn't been able to keep the puck out of the net for the past 3 years.
The Crypto Guy
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- Jun 26, 2017
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E-Train
Registered User
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I don’t even know where to begin on some of this, admittedly I don’t have time today.
I’ll jusr say that Hajek’s ability to make it will not come down to the offensive numbers he posts, and the numbers he posted in the WHL do not indicate that it is something to be concerned about.
I’ll jusr say that Hajek’s ability to make it will not come down to the offensive numbers he posts, and the numbers he posted in the WHL do not indicate that it is something to be concerned about.
- Jul 20, 2005
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Hajek had 39 points in 58 games as a 19 year old in the WHL, which put him Near the top 20 for D-men in PPG. He also had 8 points in 7 games in the WJC.
I figured watching the opposite career arcs of Ryan McDonagh and Brendan Smith would have taught us minor league numbers mean less than skill level and work ethic.
I figured watching the opposite career arcs of Ryan McDonagh and Brendan Smith would have taught us minor league numbers mean less than skill level and work ethic.
The Crypto Guy
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- Jun 26, 2017
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Loser will automatically get the #8 spot since nobody is even close to either of the 2.
Haha, I feel the need to defend myself a little bit here.
Personally, I think the scoring stats are meaningful.
Firstly, players who can contribute offensively are obviously more valuable than players who can't, everything else equal.
But beyond that, point production is reflective of a player's ability to control the puck, make good, quick reads, and pass the puck effectively. Players who can do that score more points than those can't. And those skills are critical to a defensemen's ability to maintain control of the puck in their own zone once they win it, transition it to offense so that we get the puck out of our zone, and avoid turnovers that lead to scoring chances against us and can be just as impactful as blown defensive assignments. Those are important components of being a good defenseman in my view.
Either way, whether you believe the scoring stats are meaningful or not, there is absolutely no question that Hajek has had issues managing the puck and it's a shortcoming for him.
This is from @AdamZHerman 's prospect rankings (Blueshirt Banter 2018 New York Rangers Prospect Rankings: 15-11): "His skating and decision making will earn him a handful of assists, but there’s not much to speak of in terms of shooting ability, hands, or vision. I’m not sold on his transition ability either, as while he can skate the puck into the neutral zone, he’s not a very good mover of the puck."
This is from @Beacon 's review of Hajek (which is admittedly largely very positive, Prospect Info: - 2018-2019 Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL)/Maine Mariners (ECHL) Thread *Part X*): "He's not NHL-ready yet because he needs to develop a bit more creativity and confidence with the puck. That's not purely an offensive thing, you need to be able to stickhandle out of your own zone when 2-3 forwards are charging at you and there's no lane to pass the puck to a teammate."
This is a comment from @nyr2k2 (Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) / Maine Mariners (ECHL) 2018-19: Part IX): "Hajek looks generally good. He looks kind of nervous at times handling the puck to me."
You can go through the Wolfpack thread and find a dozen more comments like that. I've watched 5-10 WolfPack games this year and made the same observation myself. There is just no question that Hajek's puck management is an issue. That doesn't mean it's something that he can't develop / get better at and I think it's perfectly reasonable if other people want to weigh that issue less meaningfully than I do, but there's no question that it's an issue that should be incorporated into his player evaluation in some way.
Personally, I think the scoring stats are meaningful.
Firstly, players who can contribute offensively are obviously more valuable than players who can't, everything else equal.
But beyond that, point production is reflective of a player's ability to control the puck, make good, quick reads, and pass the puck effectively. Players who can do that score more points than those can't. And those skills are critical to a defensemen's ability to maintain control of the puck in their own zone once they win it, transition it to offense so that we get the puck out of our zone, and avoid turnovers that lead to scoring chances against us and can be just as impactful as blown defensive assignments. Those are important components of being a good defenseman in my view.
Either way, whether you believe the scoring stats are meaningful or not, there is absolutely no question that Hajek has had issues managing the puck and it's a shortcoming for him.
This is from @AdamZHerman 's prospect rankings (Blueshirt Banter 2018 New York Rangers Prospect Rankings: 15-11): "His skating and decision making will earn him a handful of assists, but there’s not much to speak of in terms of shooting ability, hands, or vision. I’m not sold on his transition ability either, as while he can skate the puck into the neutral zone, he’s not a very good mover of the puck."
This is from @Beacon 's review of Hajek (which is admittedly largely very positive, Prospect Info: - 2018-2019 Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL)/Maine Mariners (ECHL) Thread *Part X*): "He's not NHL-ready yet because he needs to develop a bit more creativity and confidence with the puck. That's not purely an offensive thing, you need to be able to stickhandle out of your own zone when 2-3 forwards are charging at you and there's no lane to pass the puck to a teammate."
This is a comment from @nyr2k2 (Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL) / Maine Mariners (ECHL) 2018-19: Part IX): "Hajek looks generally good. He looks kind of nervous at times handling the puck to me."
You can go through the Wolfpack thread and find a dozen more comments like that. I've watched 5-10 WolfPack games this year and made the same observation myself. There is just no question that Hajek's puck management is an issue. That doesn't mean it's something that he can't develop / get better at and I think it's perfectly reasonable if other people want to weigh that issue less meaningfully than I do, but there's no question that it's an issue that should be incorporated into his player evaluation in some way.
To be clear, I don't think Hajek is a terrible prospect or anything. I have him clustered pretty tightly with Reunanen, Keane, and Rykov. I just value the puck management skills, because:
1) I think it's an important part of being a good defensive defenseman
2) Players who can contribute offensively are obviously more valuable than ones who can't
3) I think the players with good puck skills have more upside to grow into
And it's not like Reunanen, Keane, or Rykov are turnstiles.
I also think people are being slow to "update their priors" when it comes to Reunanen.
1) I think it's an important part of being a good defensive defenseman
2) Players who can contribute offensively are obviously more valuable than ones who can't
3) I think the players with good puck skills have more upside to grow into
And it's not like Reunanen, Keane, or Rykov are turnstiles.
I also think people are being slow to "update their priors" when it comes to Reunanen.
Kendo
Registered User
