Rangers Prospect Poll (Summer 2018): #3 Prospect

[UAGoalieGuy]

Add Lundkvist

 

[CTRanger]

When a guy like Lias Andersson is considered your 4th best prospect it’s full on twilight zone time in Rangerland!

 

[Lundy HOF]

I really like Lias and his D+1 season was fantastic. Lot to be excited about with him going forward. I voted to potential on this one with Kravtsov though.

It’s a little bit of the new shiny toy syndrome for sure. But on the other hand it’s about potential difference makers.

Lias is a necessary piece moving forward and a piece you win with (doesn’t shy away in big games) either as a pivot or on the wing. I suspect we will all love him and his game for the next decade. However, I think it’s clear he isn’t a “franchise” guy.

In another thread we discussed how much we would trade for Panarin. Well Kravtsov can maybe be that type of player one day. Bust potential, which to Edge’s point is certainly very real at this stage, or not - it’s hard to ignore what CAN be. Especially for a franchise that has lacked that type of drafted player for a loooong time.

 

[Joey Bones]

Honestly, I think it's finally cool to see all really promising, high upside picks in the top 10 for this poll!!

 

[darko]

Lias add Lindgren

 

[darko]

Honestly, I think it's finally cool to see all really promising, high upside picks in the top 10 for this poll!!

Out of curiosity, where would you rank our system? I'm assuming we are a lock for top-10. Are we top-5?

 

[Joey Bones]

Out of curiosity, where would you rank our system? I'm assuming we are a lock for top-10. Are we top-5?

Can't really speak for other organization's prospects (because I don't have a computer in front of me ATM, lolol), but I'd say 10, exactly. Think there are other organizations that have better depth, star/elite wise, than NYR does, but if they continue the "rebuild" next season then it could very well be near top 5.

 

[darko]

Can't really speak for other organization's prospects (because I don't have a computer in front of me ATM, lolol), but I'd say 10, exactly. Think there are other organizations that have better depth, star/elite wise, than NYR does, but if they continue the "rebuild" next season then it could very well be near top 5.

Considering where we were 18 months ago I think Gorts and co have done really well.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

This was out top-15 in 2015:

TOP PROSPECTS

1. LW/RW Pavel Buchnevich
2. D Brady Skjei
3. C Oscar Lindberg
4. D Dylan McIlrath
5. G Igor Shesterkin


SECOND TIER

6. C Ryan Gropp
7. G Brandon Halverson
8. G Mackenzie Skapski
9. C Adam Tambellini
10. D Ryan Graves
11. RW Robin Kovacs
12. G Magnus Hellberg
13. C Cristoval Nieves
14. C Aleksi Saarela
15. D Petr Zamorsky

Are we in a better position in 2018? Well, it's safe to say we are. But the real question is: How were these guys rated in terns of overall potential? 3 of our top-5 from 3 years ago are now playing in the NHL, with 1 still considered a prospect. The next 10? Nieves, Halverson, Skapski and Hellberg have played in the NHL but aren't regulars. How many of the guys that will be in our 6-15 spots this year will become the next Gropp/Halverson/Graves? Time will tell, but it's pretty obvious that our top-5 this year is much better than our top-5 in 2015.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I'm sure @Edge has made this point already, but I skimmed through the thread and will post my thoughts anyways: as much as I liked the Kravtsov pick at #9, I don't think we can let the few flashes of brilliance we've seen from take over the view of where his game currently is today. Lias is the more complete player in that he knows where to be on the ice for 200 foot, is a bull on the puck and really knows how to dominate in small areas on the ice. His playmaking is also very underrated and we haven't been lucky enough to see him start utilizing that deadly wrist shot of his, which is something I'd expect to see happen more often this season now that he's kinda acclimated to the time and spacing on the AHL/NHL game.

That being said, I love Kravtsov's game, similar to Chytil, in that he's really, really dominant with transitioning through the neutral zone. In my pre-draft notes on him, I wrote that he has that "slippery" element where he can navigate in tight spaces with speed without losing control of the puck. That's my favorite part of his game right now, and it's what will make him successful at the next level. I'd like to see him learn how to play in the trenches a bit more, in that he needs to work on quick countering and how to utilize those bursts of speed when there isn't much space on the ice. The defensive aspect of his game needs work too, but he's a teenager playing limited minutes in the KHL, so that will come with time. Kuznestov's game is only rounding out now, and he'll be even more deadly in these upcoming seasons.

I went with Lias for now due to completeness, and I'd stick to my guns and say that they have equivalent upside. Close to adding Rykov, but add Nils.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Pionk is a lot better defender right now than DeAngelo is. DeAngelo did not show all that much offense this year either which is the strongest part of his game. Pionk even beat him there--14 points in 28 games to 8 points in 32. They are pretty much the same age and the same size and I would very easily choose Pionk over DeAngelo.

I’d choose DeAngelo because his ceiling is higher and his fancy stats underlying numbers were better. Pionk despite looking good on the eye test was girardi bad fancy stats wise

 

[eco's bones]

I’d choose DeAngelo because his ceiling is higher and his fancy stats underlying numbers were better. Pionk despite looking good on the eye test was girardi bad fancy stats wise

You do realize that Pionk was getting the hardest matchups in the last 15-20 games of last year? That just because the Rangers lineup was depleted after the deadline didn't stop teams like Pittsburgh from playing Crosby and Malkin or the Caps from playing Ovechkin? Did Tony DeAngelo see those guys at all last year? The Rangers very much managed his minutes and he saw very little penalty kill time because his ability to defend smartly needs more work. Pionk saw plenty of that and he saw plenty of the league's best players.

Here is another thing---was Neal on the ice all by himself when he was facing those harder matchups? No he wasn't. He was one of five guys and a goalie and more often than not Neal is the one with the least experience. He's still the one actually seeing Ovechkin with Wilson and either Backstrom or Kuzntesov and a lot of Carlson too. In other words a combination of players that almost automatically controls the lion's share of the play. If not Pionk it would have been some other D in his place and do you actually think that other D (whoever that was of Rangers defensemen available at the time) would have significantly changed anything for the positive?

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

You do realize that Pionk was getting the hardest matchups in the last 15-20 games of last year? That just because the Rangers lineup was depleted after the deadline didn't stop teams like Pittsburgh from playing Crosby and Malkin or the Caps from playing Ovechkin? Did Tony DeAngelo see those guys at all last year? The Rangers very much managed his minutes and he saw very little penalty kill time because his ability to defend smartly needs more work. Pionk saw plenty of that and he saw plenty of the league's best players.

Here is another thing---was Neal on the ice all by himself when he was facing those harder matchups? No he wasn't. He was one of five guys and a goalie and more often than not Neal is the one with the least experience. He's still the one actually seeing Ovechkin with Wilson and either Backstrom or Kuzntesov and a lot of Carlson too. In other words a combination of players that almost automatically controls the lion's share of the play. If not Pionk it would have been some other D in his place and do you actually think that other D (whoever that was of Rangers defensemen available at the time) would have significantly changed anything for the positive?

*insert argument that fancy stats accounts for all of that*

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Neal pionk being this high and ADA not is a travesty considering both their ceilings

What is DeAngelo's ceiling?

I know Pionk's floor is at the very least a top 4 NHL'er. He's that right now, and he's only a year older. DeAngelo's floor is like a 7th D, given thats about his current level of play.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Might as well just give my full list. I don't count guys like Pionk, Georgi, DeAngelo as prospects, along with Nieves, Lettieri, etc. I'm probably forgetting a player or two, like usual.

1. Shestyorkin
2. Chytil
3. Kravtsov
4. Andersson
5. Howden
6. Rykov
7. Hajek
8. Lundkvist
9. Miller
10. Huska
11. Lindgren
12. Virta
13. Barron
14. Ragnarsson
15. Keane
16. Hughes
17. Lindbom
18. Wall
19. Ronning
20. Sjalin
21. Day
22. Gettinger
23. Crawley
24. Gross
25. Nanne
26. Fontaine
27. Gropp
28. Leedahl
29. Reunanen
30. Kjellberg
31. Lakatos

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

What is DeAngelo's ceiling?

I know Pionk's floor is at the very least a top 4 NHL'er. He's that right now, and he's only a year older. DeAngelo's floor is like a 7th D, given thats about his current level of play.

Just because pionk played in the top 4 doesn’t mean he should.

Pionk
Ceiling: top four D man
Floor: bottom pair journeyman

ADA
Ceiling: top four offensive game changer(think Shattenkirk)
Floor: 7th Dman/AHL

At their base their ceilings are very close. I just think ADA if he reaches his ceiling brings a more rare skill and therefore is more valuable*

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Just because pionk played in the top 4 doesn’t mean he should.

Pionk
Ceiling: top four D man
Floor: bottom pair journeyman

ADA
Ceiling: top four offensive game changer(think Shattenkirk)
Floor: 7th Dman/AHL

At their base their ceilings are very close. I just think ADA if he reaches his ceiling brings a more rare skill and therefore is more valuable*

If you are 22 and you can't hold down a regular spot in the NHL, is your ceiling a top 4 D? At what point does DeAngelo start getting the same consideration that McIlrath did?

He's on his third organization, and easily one of the worst players from the 2014 first round.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

If you are 22 and you can't hold down a regular spot in the NHL, is your ceiling a top 4 D? At what point does DeAngelo start getting the same consideration that McIlrath did?

He's on his third organization, and easily one of the worst players from the 2014 first round.

Pionk is older and couldnt secure a roster spot out of camp. And had to sign as a udfa. And his floor is top 4 because he played 20 games last year on one of the worst defenses in the league.

I can do this all day buddy

 

[darko]

What is DeAngelo's ceiling?

I know Pionk's floor is at the very least a top 4 NHL'er. He's that right now, and he's only a year older. DeAngelo's floor is like a 7th D, given thats about his current level of play.

Imo ADA's upside is #2/#3. Pionk is more of a #3/#4 type.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Add Lundkvist

 

[Kendo]

Lias, then Kravty, then Howden.

Add Lundkvist.

 

[E-Train]

Pionk is older and couldnt secure a roster spot out of camp.

Less than a 3 month age difference. They are both '95s. Age is a non-factor in this argument. We'll find out pretty quick who's more valuable to the org this season. DeAngelo is no longer waiver exempt. He must make the team or he'll be gone.

 

[Yuck]

I went with Anderson. I am pretty certain he is going to be really good well rounded player who you put on the ice during critical moments. I see tons of potential in Kravstov and certainly the possibility to be more of a game breaking talent , but I need to see more of him before I take him over Lias.

 

[kovazub94]

My take on Lias vs Vitali ranking that @Edge ”questioned” goes to the fact (and it’s a fact) that our fan base has been starved of elite talent since Jagr’s last season. Yeah, there were two 40-goal seasons from Gabby and maybe a season and a half from Nash (that were watered down by disappointing playoffs) but these were still a level below if the standard is set where 78 point season was considered a disappointment (think about it!). This hope for an elite prospect talent is more pronounced here at HFBNYR for obvious reasons.

From this perspective Lias’ post draft season only reconfirmed believe that the Rangers drafted a gifted future NHLer who likely will become a top-6 forward with a ton of intangibles necessary to win, however there’s no mistaking it for an elite talent that I was referring to above. Kravtsov? There’s a hope that along with Chytil he will become that. I think it’s a bit different from a shiny new toy syndrome, though I’m sure it also played its part in the ranking.

 

[Unusual Suspect]

Less than a 3 month age difference. They are both '95s. Age is a non-factor in this argument. We'll find out pretty quick who's more valuable to the org this season. DeAngelo is no longer waiver exempt. He must make the team or he'll be gone.

I think he should have a reasonably long and productive career in Europe. I believe his ship has already sailed... certainly Hajek and Lindgren will have full opportunity to push him into the permanent AHL (or elsewhere) realm. See ya.