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Rangers Prospect Poll (Summer 2018): #19 Prospect

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#19 Prospect

  • Total voters
    70
  • Poll closed .
darko said:
SHL isn't better than KHL.

It's between AHL and SHL for 3rd best league.
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The gap between SHL and KHL is closer than between the SHL and AHL in my opinion because of the overall nature of both leagues and how they operate. Liiga slightly below the AHL with NLA, Allsvenskan and Extraliga in the next tier.
 
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What Door said:
Everyone has their own way of ranking prospects. No need to get upset because the board's amalgamated opinion differs from yours.

Personally, I'll tend to rank a prospect with NHL games under their belt higher than a younger player with more upside. Others feel very differently. There's no reason to try and invalidate opinions you disagree with.

Anyway, I went with Virta here. I was really close to picking Nieves though. Having a young 4th liner who can skate is a valuable asset.

Add Fontaine.
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FWIW, since I'm one of the guys posting long things in each thread, I'm not upset or trying to invalidate someone else's opinion. I'm just explaining why I like my guy. And for me, a big part of the fun here is trying to convince others to get behind your guy.
 
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Lindqvist will get more love than Virta because he is actually here and will be competing for a spot on the team. Virta is also not signed yet, but to me is the better prospect.

Add Sjalin.

After that, is there any reason people are avoiding Gilmour? I know he is older, but he played fairly well in him limited role on the blueline the last 20 games. I know we have added a ton of LHD through trades (Lindgren, Hajek, Rykov) and through the draft (Miller, Ragnarsson) with some prospect depth we had there (Day).
 
darko said:
SHL isn't better than KHL.

It's between AHL and SHL for 3rd best league.
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I see the argument frequently that it is a better league in aggregate, considering the KHL has such variety. St Petersburg and CSKA could probably hold their own in the NHL, whereas teams like Riga and Kunlun are well below AHL quality.
 
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Kovalev27 said:
Lindqvist shouldn't even be on the list. he's not a prospect he's a free agent signing at that age imo.
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There's established criteria on prospect eligibility. We've used it forever. Zuccarello was 23 when we signed him.

Kovalev27 said:
pionk in no way on earth is a better prospect than nils lundkvist a legit first round talent and one of the youngest kids in the draft. that makes zero sense. pionk does not have anywhere near the upside that lundkvist has.
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For most voters, it's not just about who has more upside. The appeal in Pionk is that as a rookie he was Hartford's best defenseman and then he was playing 22+ minutes down the stretch for the Rangers. Now, you can place him where you want, but again, for most people here it's not just about upside.

Kovalev27 said:
and the last big glaring one is lettieri another guy that is in no way a top 15 prospect. that's crazy.

Keane Virta Huska Lindbom Fontaine Pajuniemi Sjalin even Gettinger among the guys listed below him should all be on this list before you ever get to lettieri.
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Of the guys you listed, half of them probably never play an NHL game. Again, it's not just upside. There's something to be said for a guy who has a really nice rookie year, including scoring some points in the NHL. He probably has limited upside, but he's "safe," so he made it on the list where he did.

Everyone has different motivations in voting.
 
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nyr2k2 said:
There's established criteria on prospect eligibility. We've used it forever. Zuccarello was 23 when we signed him.



For most voters, it's not just about who has more upside. The appeal in Pionk is that as a rookie he was Hartford's best defenseman and then he was playing 22+ minutes down the stretch for the Rangers. Now, you can place him where you want, but again, for most people here it's not just about upside.



Of the guys you listed, half of them probably never play an NHL game. Again, it's not just upside. There's something to be said for a guy who has a really nice rookie year, including scoring some points in the NHL. He probably has limited upside, but he's "safe," so he made it on the list where he did.

Everyone has different motivations in voting.
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I generally go for the younger guys, but I'm actually a believer in Pionk's upside and would have had him 5th on our list:
- Scored 0.5 ppg in 28 NHL games last year
- Tied Leetch's record for longest point streak by a rookie Ranger defenseman
- Scored almost a ppg in the NCAA
- Excellent skater who can use skating, puck handing, and hockey sense to create scoring chances against NHL players
- Very good one-on-one defender with high compete level
- Was matched up against NHL top lines at 22 in his first pro season
- Is just 22 with only one pro season under his belt and still has room to improve

Admittedly, a lot of the NHL observations are from a small sample size, but even if they over-represent his current ability, I think they're indicative of the upside he has. If we had any D prospects who I thought had #1 upside, I'd put them ahead of Pionk. But I don't think the upside between Hajek, Miller, Lundkvist, Rykov, and Pionk is all that different, so in that case, the guy who is closest to the NHL seems like the best prospect to me.
 
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pblawr said:
I generally go for the younger guys, but I'm actually a believer in Pionk's upside and would have had him 5th on our list:
- Scored 0.5 ppg in 28 NHL games last year
- Tied Leetch's record for longest point streak by a rookie Ranger defenseman
- Scored almost a ppg in the NCAA
- Excellent skater who can use skating, puck handing, and hockey sense to create scoring chances against NHL players
- Very good one-on-one defender with high compete level
- Was matched up against NHL top lines at 22 in his first pro season
- Is just 22 with only one pro season under his belt and still has room to improve

Admittedly, a lot of the NHL observations are from a small sample size, but even if they over-represent his current ability, I think they're indicative of the upside he has. If we had any D prospects who I thought had #1 upside, I'd put them ahead of Pionk. But I don't think the upside between Hajek, Miller, Lundkvist, Rykov, and Pionk is all that different, so in that case, the guy who is closest to the NHL seems like the best prospect to me.
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Your posts are very well-reasoned and thoughtful. Just wanted to say that, and that I'm glad you joined up.
 
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Virta. Add Bigras, who I’m still amazed isn’t getting more recognition on these boards.
 
kovazub94 said:
More amazing than Gilmour?
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Sarcasm? I’m not super high on Gilmour, although I do think he’ll find a niche as an offensive 7th D somewhere. His skating is good enough for him to find some NHL minutes.

Bigras was an outstanding D+1 defenseman whose game took a hit after dealing with concussion issues. He reportedly started playing timid and his brief cups of coffee with the Avs weren’t good. He was great for Hartford when he was traded, and I could see him being a good 3rd pairing guy. I think he’s better than Ryan Graves.
 
Mac n Gs said:
Sarcasm? I’m not super high on Gilmour, although I do think he’ll find a niche as an offensive 7th D somewhere. His skating is good enough for him to find some NHL minutes.

Bigras was an outstanding D+1 defenseman whose game took a hit after dealing with concussion issues. He reportedly started playing timid and his brief cups of coffee with the Avs weren’t good. He was great for Hartford when he was traded, and I could see him being a good 3rd pairing guy. I think he’s better than Ryan Graves.
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No sarcasm. The concussion you pointed out is a serious enough injury to derail a prospect development (to the point where Avs basically gave up on him). So if I had to chose between Bigras and Gilmour I'd choose a healthy offensive defenseman with apparent NHL upside.

As I stated many times during this current ranking process - after our top-12 prospects I'd be more inclined to go with prospects who have limited upside (but it is still NHL upside) but who already had some NHL games under their belts. So when you called out Bigras who is in this category I was genuinely curious why him specifically and not the who group including Gilmour, Nieves, O'Gara (if he qualifies)
 
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nyr2k2 said:
FWIW, since I'm one of the guys posting long things in each thread, I'm not upset or trying to invalidate someone else's opinion. I'm just explaining why I like my guy. And for me, a big part of the fun here is trying to convince others to get behind your guy.
Click to expand...

In fairness, there are times the preferences are slight. We’re at the stage where I could probably flip the 17th guy with the 22nd and not think anything of it.
 
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Edge said:
Still went with Lindqvist in a toss-up.

Add Layne Ulmer.
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Careful man, you're going to give me PTSD if you keep bringing up pre-lockout guys!
Didn't Layne hit 20 goals for the Pack in the season he got called up for a game?
 
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