Proposal: Rangers - Ottawa

[BonkTastic]

And why would the sens trade their first for Miller? It can easily be another top 10ish pick.
The only reason I can see is if the Sens wanna get rid of that contract.

Uchiha wants to get rid of that contract, that's for sure. Probably the most outspoken anti-Ryan poster on HFSens.

Regardless, like others have said:
1) we've already traded away our 2nd rounders for the next two years, we're really not in a position to trade away a 1st rounder in order to save ~1.5mil (the amount that Ryan is overpaid relative to his production based on what players like him usually go for on the open market).
2) We specifically seem to have traded for a LH playmaking center to play with Ryan, which Ryan has never had a chance to play with here, so we should at least give that a chance before considering selling him at a loss. Ryan and Zibanejad played like oil and water together. Let's see if we can't find a better fit before feeling as though we need to give away 1st rounders to rid ourselves of the minor inconvenience of paying a top-6 guy a mil and a half too much.

I'm not saying there isn't value to this deal, it's not an awful proposal in a vacuum, I like Miller... but the need isn't there for Ottawa to pull the trigger on a deal that sets us back very real assets (1st round picks) that we rely on in order to put a competitive team on the ice. Especially as it seems that the org is pushing towards finding players to play with Ryan rather than move him.

As usual, an overwhelming abundance of context gets in the way of a fantasy GM deal.

 

[tony d]

Yeah, Ottawa's not doing this.

 

[Xspyrit]

Rangers get Ryan & 1st 2017.

Ottawa get Miller & 3rd 2017.


Done deal?

You're a Sens fan right? How many seconds did you think before posting this? Because if You want your team to get better, You should ABSOLUTELY not do that (unless Miller is somehow supposed to become a star player)

Ottawa builds through the draft (can't buy their way into contention by buying out contracts and buying the most priced UFAs), their highest 1st round pick is very important to them unless they get a star player back (Ryan)

What is the point of "getting rid of" Ryan? He has produced at a 57 pts pace the last 2 seasons, which is food for top-60 in scoring. It's not like he is the only veteran on UFA years who makes big money

And why would the sens trade their first for Miller? It can easily be another top 10ish pick.
The only reason I can see is if the Sens wanna get rid of that contract, which prob has negative value, and want to use that money to spend on Karlsson. But then again no way the rangers do this.
Worst trade idea ever.

And Legend123 is becoming legendary by feeding his obsession by participating in yet another Sens related thread where the Habs have nothing to do with... trying to take a jab at them the best he can. This time it was a lame attempt by saying "It can easily be another top 10ish pick"

The Sens had a 12th OA pick last season but when was the last time they actually had lower than a top-10 pick? 2011 with a 6th overall pick. Meanwhile your beloved Habs had a 3rd Overall pick and a 9th Overall pick. Nice trolltry

This isn't 2006 anymore. 7 mill players don't put up 100 points, they put up 60-70 points. That's where the league is right now.

This. For as long as I can remember, people on HF have a hard time adjusting to the evolution of the salary cap and scoring from year to year...

Do the Sens have serious cap issues?

No, hence why there is no point in doing this

 

[Trxjw]

Ooof. No thanks from this Rangers fan.

 

[Stuzchuk]

if you think that B. Ryan has negative value, good for you!!

OTT turn this one down

 

[TeamRenzo]

All those players are better than Ryan and can actually play reasonable defence. The guy has the intensity and speed of a snorlax. He's such a lazy player and when he's not scoring we might as well be playing 4 V 5

Terrible assessment of Ryan's game.

Sens pass on this trade, rather easily.

 

[Shootertooter]

Any chance there is a deal to be made with Miller and Cici as the main components?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Wouldn't it be Miller + 1st 17/18 for Ryan(1m retained) + 3rd(17/18) or a prospect equal to a 3rd

better

 

[Langdon Alger]

How about a three way trade where the canucks give up Ryan Miller for Ryan and Miller?

Do the Sens and Rangers get joint custody of Miller?

 

[Raspewtin]

Right

Handed

Defenseman

Or

Nothing

 

[Savant]

Sens pass on this trade, rather easily.

I assure you that the Rangers feel the same.

Both teams say no.

 

[TGWL]

We could always just put Ryan on defense. I hear he's played a little D before, on NHL 13.

 

[Doriva]

There are plenty of teams who would be happy to take on a top line player at that contract. Yes, Bobby Ryan is still a top line player. What other top line players could be available? What other top line players are available next year at free agency? Expect guys like Thornton, Steen, Marchand, Oshie to re-sign. Who's left?

If Ryan was a free agent next year, he'd be one of the top names available, and he'd definitely get the contract he has right now.

Ottawa needs more top talent. They are not going to trade away their current top talent, and pay another team to do it. That's incredibly stupid.

I feel for you man I've been dealing with the same kind of garbage in countless Nash threads, many posters here live in a fantasy world where prospects are the be all and end all and that once a guy like Ryan (or Rick Nash) actually get paid they become old overpaid bums. When in reality as you said, if those guys hit the free market teams would leap at the opportunity to snag them on similar contracts.

That all being said, both teams say no.

 

[One Winged Angel]

The Rangers need more young, productive cost controlled players. They definitely don't do this deal.

I can't speak from an Ottawa perspective, but I'd imagine they would want to see how Ryan looks with someone like Brassard as his center, hoping for him to get back to his Anaheim numbers and not make this deal.

Bobby Ryan is still a very talented player, let's be real here.

 

[bernmeister]

Rangers get Ryan & 1st 2017.
Ottawa get Miller & 3rd 2017.
Done deal?

No, thanks.

I understand the OP's thought:
2017 1st could be top 10ish; Miller was 15OA; so Rangers upgrade; but I think Miller would go higher were he redrafted; and there is no guarantee that whoever NY selects would actually turn out as good as Miller; it is reasonable, percentage wise, but not enough profit to take the chance. As to the rest of it...

The Rangers need more young, productive cost controlled players. They definitely don't do this deal.

I can't speak from an Ottawa perspective, but I'd imagine they would want to see how Ryan looks with someone like Brassard as his center, hoping for him to get back to his Anaheim numbers and not make this deal.

Bobby Ryan is still a very talented player, let's be real here.

.... this is well said.

 

[vipernsx]

Rangers get Ryan & 1st 2017.

Ottawa get Miller & 3rd 2017.


Done deal?

Absolutely not.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Wouldn't it be Miller + 1st 17/18 for Ryan(1m retained) + 3rd(17/18) or a prospect equal to a 3rd

No, it would not be that.

 

[mikeyp24]

^^I was thinking the same thing as The poster you quoted. Miller is a good young player but Ryan is a proven consistent 50-60 point player who puts up 25+ goals a season. Very under rated because the contract. New shiny toys are always nice but classic proven toys are just as good.

It's things like this that are frustrating as a fan to read because people don't break down what the going rate for similar players is or that x player makes the same amount but gets paid 3 mil less the y player but the reason. Is because the other guy signed in a year people were getting less or that player broke out the year he signed and had his best 3 years after or something like that. People comparing Contracts to Josi on D even though that is value wise the best contract in the league for a team and that poor guy probably regrets not asking more. People have said Hartnell is negative value (BEFORE the expansion draft was announced) because the term is an anchor or you have to retain because 5 mil is to much for that guy he's slowing down... he has 2 years after this year and has been a consistent 50+ point player since joining CBJ showing 0 sign of decline and look at what a less productive guy like Lucic got and you know hartsy ain't over paid or have to much term because he would get it in a heartbeat in FA.

Basically tl;dr Ryan is so damn underrated it's criminal and while the Rangers might not need him which is more then fair to say because I don't know their needs the price is not close for the Sense to accept. For any fan to say a 1st AND Ryan for a top 6 guy (who im pretty sure last year might have.been his first year getting top 6 minutes and was mostly developing back and forth between 2nd and 3rd line duty) and a 3rd is not enough they are crazy. Ryan is worth probably still what OTT did in the first place. It just so happened that the pick was waaaaaaaaaay higher then expected but a late 1st and a good nhl ready prospect for Ryan is value.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Any chance there is a deal to be made with Miller and Cici as the main components?

Hell no, from Ottawa.

 

[TGWL]

^^I was thinking the same thing as The poster you quoted. Miller is a good young player but Ryan is a proven consistent 50-60 point player who puts up 25+ goals a season. Very under rated because the contract. New shiny toys are always nice but classic proven toys are just as good.

It's things like this that are frustrating as a fan to read because people don't break down what the going rate for similar players is or that x player makes the same amount but gets paid 3 mil less the y player but the reason. Is because the other guy signed in a year people were getting less or that player broke out the year he signed and had his best 3 years after or something like that. People comparing Contracts to Josi on D even though that is value wise the best contract in the league for a team and that poor guy probably regrets not asking more. People have said Hartnell is negative value (BEFORE the expansion draft was announced) because the term is an anchor or you have to retain because 5 mil is to much for that guy he's slowing down... he has 2 years after this year and has been a consistent 50+ point player since joining CBJ showing 0 sign of decline and look at what a less productive guy like Lucic got and you know hartsy ain't over paid or have to much term because he would get it in a heartbeat in FA.

Basically tl;dr Ryan is so damn underrated it's criminal and while the Rangers might not need him which is more then fair to say because I don't know their needs the price is not close for the Sense to accept. For any fan to say a 1st AND Ryan for a top 6 guy (who im pretty sure last year might have.been his first year getting top 6 minutes and was mostly developing back and forth between 2nd and 3rd line duty) and a 3rd is not enough they are crazy. Ryan is worth probably still what OTT did in the first place. It just so happened that the pick was waaaaaaaaaay higher then expected but a late 1st and a good nhl ready prospect for Ryan is value.

Bobby Ryan has not put up a 25 goal season since 2011-2012, and was only on pace to reach 25 goals in 1 of those seasons - he missed some games.

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

No thanks from Ottawa. Neither Bobby Ryan nor the 2017 1st are going anywhere, especially since we already don't have a 2nd round pick in either of the next 2 drafts.

This actually is a pretty rotten deal for Ottawa. Ottawa needs to keep picks and do as Marshall Johnston used to do.

Also the Sens traded for Dion to actually make the playoffs this season, a downgrade from Ryan to Millar isn't going to cut it.

They would be smart to get rid of Ryan before that contract becomes an albatross though, this deal isn't the one to do it.

 

[Micklebot]

Deal makes no sense for either team.

Ottawa is trying to win now. They've pretty much decided that coaching was a big part of the problem, and feel they've underachieved the last few years. They moved out youth in Zibanejad and replaced it with vets like Brassard and Phaneuf.

Despite all the hate Ryan gets for being overpaid, he is still a winger that will register ~55 pts, and 20+ goals a year. He's been hot and cold since joining the sens, which probably has management thinking with the right motivation (Boucher is supposed to be a master motivator) he can even out his performance and stay a touch more consistent as the year goes on. The thing is though, if you've got a player putting up offense like Ryan can, and he's second on the depth chart for right wingers, that's a pretty good problem to have.

On the flip side, NY seems to be retooling and trying to get younger and cheaper. Ryan doesn't really accomplish that for them at all.

As an aside, I think that Ryan's value is at a low point, and suspect that one good season under Boucher could really rehabilitate it. Assuming he plays all 82 games, if you comes in and scores 60-65 pts (an increase of 3 to 8 pts over his pace from the last 3 seasons), and 25-30 goals (an increase of 2-7 goals over his pace), we could see a lot of the complaints disappear. He's finally going to have a playmaking center in Brassard, so we should see him be more of the shooter on his line this year. Upgrading the 2nd D-pair should help out too.

 

[Xspyrit]

Also, I keep reading how Ryan doesn't score as much as in his Anaheim days. It might be true for goal scoring (his game is more well-rounded now and had to adjust playing with Zibanejad who really isn't a playmaker) but outside of his 71 pts season, his production pace is almost the same. He is even higher in league scoring in Ottawa than he was, because general scoring keeps going down... Wish people could relate

I feel for you man I've been dealing with the same kind of garbage in countless Nash threads, many posters here live in a fantasy world where prospects are the be all and end all and that once a guy like Ryan (or Rick Nash) actually get paid they become old overpaid bums. When in reality as you said, if those guys hit the free market teams would leap at the opportunity to snag them on similar contracts.

Exactly, Nash and Ryan are now in the same boat. Before 2015-16 when Ryan was making 5.1 he was a great player; now that he makes 7.25 he is overpaid, old and crappy. HF in a vaccum

Any chance there is a deal to be made with Miller and Cici as the main components?

Cici as Cody Ceci? No sorry, kid is gonna be real good and the Sens don't have much depth on RD after Karlsson and Ceci. Wideman is fine but probably tops at 3rd pairing and it's hard to tell how good Jaros will be. After them, there is nothing

 

[Karl Eriksson]

All those players are better than Ryan and can actually play reasonable defence. The guy has the intensity and speed of a snorlax. He's such a lazy player and when he's not scoring we might as well be playing 4 V 5

Ryan can't even spell Snorlax

 

[Shootertooter]

Wouldn't it be Miller + 1st 17/18 for Ryan(1m retained) + 3rd(17/18) or a prospect equal to a 3rd

That busy signal you hear is not the fact that the Rangers are talking to someone else, it is due to the fact that they blocked your number. Terrible deal for the Rangers.