Value of: Rangers-Kings

[bernmeister]

Trading one of our top three center prospects - Turcotte, Vilardi, and likely Byfield - for ultimately a second-pairing offensive defenseman just doesn’t make sense for LA. I’m interested in DeAngelo, but not at the price of one of those three. If we’re talking about something like Akil Thomas and a second, or JAD and Clague, I’m definitely listening. The Kings would have a pretty good defense in the next year or so.

Bjornfot - Doughty
Anderson - DeAngelo
Clague - Roy

If NYR keep DeAngelo then Lundkvist becomes available.

If NYR deal DeAngelo, and keep Lundkvist, then one of K'Andre Miller or Nick Jones becomes a trade chip given similar skill sets and only so much room. Also, taking into account Fox and DeAngelo/Lunkvist (rd's) are an offense minded threesome, I would speculate Robertson (ld) is not on the table.

Lindgren - Fox
? - Trouba
? - DeAngelo or Lundkvist


So, going forward. Given LA's deep center prospect pool and NYR's deep defense pool and both teams seem to compliment each other time table wise. There seems to be the basis of a deal there somewhere to be found.

Byfield/Stutzel (c), Vilarde (c), Madden (c), Turcotte (c). (And Kopitar isn't "old" yet)

DeAngelo (rd), Lundqvist (rd), Miller (ld), Jones (ld).

You cannot honestly say any of those players are garbage or throw-in's. They all have value.

In a perfect world NYR trade DeAngelo for a similar age 1LD who is a in the 70/30 Defence/Offence range, and one of Jones/Miller for a center.

A puck moving RHD is definitely a need for LA, but if the price is Turcotte, Vilardi, or Byfield, it had better be a true 1RD coming back. DeAngelo is not that and never will be, in my opinion. I think a more realistic trade would be a Rasmus Kupari and picks for a really good #2.

would love 2OA to draft Byfield, but I don't see a fit for what LA would want as something we can do.

Discounting Deangelo in a package is not a prob.

but other bluest blue chips, that's a prob and it is exacerbated by need to have elcs to offset -> rfa $ increase and Zib raise.
Also again, setting aside any other reason, elc exp drft exempt Nils L does NOT get moved. Same reason, we need K'A Miller.

I could see
Buch, Deangelo, CAR 2020 1st, NYR 2021 1st and NYR 2022 1st [both unprotected]
Something like that.
Kings pause a sec b'c as OP noted, LA does have pivot depth.

Rangers would be seriously shooting their wad, but Byfield could be worth it.

But we need most of our existing elcs for reasons stated.

 

[kilowatt]

would love 2OA to draft Byfield, but I don't see a fit for what LA would want as something we can do.

Discounting Deangelo in a package is not a prob.

but other bluest blue chips, that's a prob and it is exacerbated by need to have elcs to offset -> rfa $ increase and Zib raise.
Also again, setting aside any other reason, elc exp drft exempt Nils L does NOT get moved. Same reason, we need K'A Miller.

I could see
Buch, Deangelo, CAR 2020 1st, NYR 2021 1st and NYR 2022 1st [both unprotected]
Something like that.
Kings pause a sec b'c as OP noted, LA does have pivot depth.

Rangers would be seriously shooting their wad, but Byfield could be worth it.

But we need most of our existing elcs for reasons stated.

For Byfield?

 

[JC704]

IMO, I think Nils for Turcotte straight up is very close in value. Rangers fans are smitten with Lundkvist, as they should be, but I think theoretically it is an interesting "hockey" swap for both teams.

 

[kilowatt]

IMO, I think Nils for Turcotte straight up is very close in value. Rangers fans are smitten with Lundkvist, as they should be, but I think theoretically it is an interesting "hockey" swap for both teams.

Kings are not interested in Turcotte for Lundkvist.

 

[go4hockey]

IMO, I think Nils for Turcotte straight up is very close in value. Rangers fans are smitten with Lundkvist, as they should be, but I think theoretically it is an interesting "hockey" swap for both teams.

LA is smitten with all our center depth, as we should be. Really not interested in moving any of them at all. Let them develop and make moves as we get closer to being a playoff team, when we know more what the team needs.

 

[bernmeister]

For Byfield?

yes.
the 2 player assets are not elc, but are mid 20s, improving, contribute immediately.

thoughts?

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

DeAngelo is not super flawed. His defense isn't great but it's a lot better than somebody like Barrie. Kings should be rebuilding and thus keep Vilardi who has high upside. Only player I think fits the Rangers is Kempe. They need to upgrade the bottom six.


Something like Buchnevich, Zac Jones and Reunanen for Kempe and their two later 2nd round picks in this draft. As I've said many times 2nd round picks bust out 89% of the time. Jones and Reunanen are talented, smaller lefty defenseman but the way the Rangers are constructed they won't make this team. However, I think both, especially Jones stand a solid chance of being good NHL defenseman. Reunanen is probably ready to get his chance next year. So while the Kings are rebuilding. I'd rather take 2 close to NHL ready d prospects instead of the second round picks.

 

[bernmeister]

DeAngelo is not super flawed. His defense isn't great but it's a lot better than somebody like Barrie. Kings should be rebuilding and thus keep Vilardi who has high upside. Only player I think fits the Rangers is Kempe. They need to upgrade the bottom six.

Something like Buchnevich, Zac Jones and Reunanen for Kempe and their two later 2nd round picks in this draft. As I've said many times 2nd round picks bust out 89% of the time. Jones and Reunanen are talented, smaller lefty defenseman but the way the Rangers are constructed they won't make this team. However, I think both, especially Jones stand a solid chance of being good NHL defenseman. Reunanen is probably ready to get his chance next year. So while the Kings are rebuilding. I'd rather take 2 close to NHL ready d prospects instead of the second round picks.

solid offer, but prefer my bigger deal for Byfield
Slightly more bullish on Zac Jones than you are.

 

[go4hockey]

solid offer, but prefer my bigger deal for Byfield
Slightly more bullish on Zac Jones than you are.

Kings will not be trading that pick so your bigger deal is a no go for LA In fact we should not be dealing any of our picks and prospects as it’s a bad idea for rebuilding teams.

 

[Mandar]

This. Thanks

He had a coherent explanation indeed. Perhaps you can learn a bit from him.

 

[Calad]

DeAngelo is not super flawed. His defense isn't great but it's a lot better than somebody like Barrie. Kings should be rebuilding and thus keep Vilardi who has high upside. Only player I think fits the Rangers is Kempe. They need to upgrade the bottom six.


Something like Buchnevich, Zac Jones and Reunanen for Kempe and their two later 2nd round picks in this draft. As I've said many times 2nd round picks bust out 89% of the time. Jones and Reunanen are talented, smaller lefty defenseman but the way the Rangers are constructed they won't make this team. However, I think both, especially Jones stand a solid chance of being good NHL defenseman. Reunanen is probably ready to get his chance next year. So while the Kings are rebuilding. I'd rather take 2 close to NHL ready d prospects instead of the second round picks.

Why are we adding to Buchnevich for Kempe? They both have played 4 years in the NHL, both are on their 2nd contracts (3.25m for buch and 2m for kempe), are about the same age, and Buch has been the more productive player thus far in their careers.

On top of that, Jones and Reunanen are both LDs, of which we are in dire need. They aren't untouchable by any means, but to trade two of them before we've seen if any of our LDs can hack it in the NHL is doubly irresponsible. I am high on Zac Jones, too

 

[bernmeister]

Kings will not be trading that pick so your bigger deal is a no go for LA In fact we should not be dealing any of our picks and prospects as it’s a bad idea for rebuilding teams.

I will appreciate a head count on LAK fans as to that.
Without current pivot depth, I agree City of Angels does not even consider, surrender of the replacement for Kopitar.
However, there is sufficient pivot depth, and the ? is at what point can Rangers put enough on the table, in currency they can live with, which at the same time is enough profit for LA to accept.

It is not a slam dunk, but it appears Buch + CAR 2020 + small add are enough to get Nash's 11OA. That would be on top of 2 remaining picks and Deangelo, assuming you'd prefer 11OA in lieu of Buch +.

 

[kilowatt]

DeAngelo is not super flawed. His defense isn't great but it's a lot better than somebody like Barrie. Kings should be rebuilding and thus keep Vilardi who has high upside. Only player I think fits the Rangers is Kempe. They need to upgrade the bottom six.


Something like Buchnevich, Zac Jones and Reunanen for Kempe and their two later 2nd round picks in this draft. As I've said many times 2nd round picks bust out 89% of the time. Jones and Reunanen are talented, smaller lefty defenseman but the way the Rangers are constructed they won't make this team. However, I think both, especially Jones stand a solid chance of being good NHL defenseman. Reunanen is probably ready to get his chance next year. So while the Kings are rebuilding. I'd rather take 2 close to NHL ready d prospects instead of the second round picks.

How does this help the Kings in any way?

 

[go4hockey]

He had a coherent explanation indeed. Perhaps you can learn a bit from him.

The Kings are not in a position to trade top end talent for lesser pieces. Our prospects pool is deep but needs all the top end pieces we can get. There would need to be a much better piece offered than what you put up to even consider. Therefore this is an awful deal for LA.

 

[go4hockey]

I will appreciate a head count on LAK fans as to that.
Without current pivot depth, I agree City of Angels does not even consider, surrender of the replacement for Kopitar.
However, there is sufficient pivot depth, and the ? is at what point can Rangers put enough on the table, in currency they can live with, which at the same time is enough profit for LA to accept.

It is not a slam dunk, but it appears Buch + CAR 2020 + small add are enough to get Nash's 11OA. That would be on top of 2 remaining picks and Deangelo, assuming you'd prefer 11OA in lieu of Buch +.

For me no need to move the pick at all and adding a bunch of lesser pieces will not make it any better. Even if the LA brass looked into moving the pick it would be for a more high end player/pick than is being offered.

 

[Mandar]

The Kings are not in a position to trade top end talent for lesser pieces. Our prospects pool is deep but needs all the top end pieces we can get. Therefore this is an awful deal for LA.

Better....and I appreciate the effort sir.

 

[bernmeister]

For me no need to move the pick at all and adding a bunch of lesser pieces will not make it any better. Even if the LA brass looked into moving the pick it would be for a more high end player/pick than is being offered.

your vote is acknowledged.
thank you

 

[KingsOfCali25]

would love 2OA to draft Byfield, but I don't see a fit for what LA would want as something we can do.

Discounting Deangelo in a package is not a prob.

but other bluest blue chips, that's a prob and it is exacerbated by need to have elcs to offset -> rfa $ increase and Zib raise.
Also again, setting aside any other reason, elc exp drft exempt Nils L does NOT get moved. Same reason, we need K'A Miller.

I could see
Buch, Deangelo, CAR 2020 1st, NYR 2021 1st and NYR 2022 1st [both unprotected]
Something like that.
Kings pause a sec b'c as OP noted, LA does have pivot depth.

Rangers would be seriously shooting their wad, but Byfield could be worth it.

But we need most of our existing elcs for reasons stated.

That's ugly for LA! LA doesn't need lesser prospects and picks in the future. LA needs Blue chip prospects which Byfield is. You want the number 2 pick; offer up something worthwhile (ala Kakko) or pick Byfield #1 and LA will take Lafreniere #2 and solve both our teams needs at once.

P.s. Blake has already stated that LA is tight on contract limits (near 50) which will give them problems signing their prospects. So they would be making deals for multiple contracts.

IMO, I think Nils for Turcotte straight up is very close in value. Rangers fans are smitten with Lundkvist, as they should be, but I think theoretically it is an interesting "hockey" swap for both teams.

Rangers fans might be smitten with him but they would need LA to have the same feelings. I just don't think LA feels that way and they like Turcotte way more. I would be okay with trading for Lundkvist with LA's center depth but it would be more of Madden, Thomas or Anderson-Dolan than Turcotte.

DeAngelo is not super flawed. His defense isn't great but it's a lot better than somebody like Barrie. Kings should be rebuilding and thus keep Vilardi who has high upside. Only player I think fits the Rangers is Kempe. They need to upgrade the bottom six.


Something like Buchnevich, Zac Jones and Reunanen for Kempe and their two later 2nd round picks in this draft. As I've said many times 2nd round picks bust out 89% of the time. Jones and Reunanen are talented, smaller lefty defenseman but the way the Rangers are constructed they won't make this team. However, I think both, especially Jones stand a solid chance of being good NHL defenseman. Reunanen is probably ready to get his chance next year. So while the Kings are rebuilding. I'd rather take 2 close to NHL ready d prospects instead of the second round picks.

Again ugly for LA. Kempe is not untouchable but it would only have to be the right deal and this isn't it. Kempe and Buch are the same type of guys, so why trade 1 for 1. LA has the cheap guy and know his game. And you state that LA is rebuilding yet want them to trade two of their 2nd round picks which is counterintuitive to rebuilding. LA doesn't need any LHD as their prospect pool is loaded on that side. Again another trade where one team gets what they need vs another that loses the best prospect for useless players.

 

[Brett44]

NYR. Just draft a C at #1

LA just draft Drysdale at #2

 

[Groo]

LA just draft Drysdale at #2

No need. They can just grab the best player on the board that didn't go 1st overall

 

[bernmeister]

That's ugly for LA! LA doesn't need lesser prospects and picks in the future. LA needs Blue chip prospects which Byfield is. You want the number 2 pick; offer up something worthwhile (ala Kakko) or pick Byfield #1 and LA will take Lafreniere #2 and solve both our teams needs at once.

P.s. Blake has already stated that LA is tight on contract limits (near 50) which will give them problems signing their prospects. So they would be making deals for multiple contracts. ......

And you state that LA is rebuilding yet want them to trade two of their 2nd round picks which is counterintuitive to rebuilding. LA doesn't need any LHD as their prospect pool is loaded on that side. Again another trade where one team gets what they need vs another that loses the best prospect for useless players.

You have a right to a preference.
Unfortunately, we do not have a surplus of Kakko types available to deal.
I disagree with assessment that return from Rangers = "lesser prospects"; also that return for best product is "useless players".

@kilowatt senses real value in Deangelo at the right price.
Buch will help now, or add CAR pick and upgrade to NAS pick.
That is instant help now, as opposed to future 1sts.
Both instances are not useless.

Best I could do for more immediate sweetener is add Lindgren, who was our top first pair w/Fox. Unfortunately you said you have lots of LD prospects, so either he holds the fort til your prospects emerge, or you flip him for something. Lindgren may not be 1LD first start on every team, but as a D first clear the crease guy I'm sure you would have multiple bidders upping such a return.

But that is as far as I (can) go.

 

[Guitpik]

yes.
the 2 player assets are not elc, but are mid 20s, improving, contribute immediately.

thoughts?

I can get very verbose about this, but it all boils down to the word "No".

The Kings aren't retooling, they're rebuilding. They aren't to the the point in that rebuild where they start trading the top end of their depth. And they certainly are in no way going to trade away the golden opportunity to draft Byfield. You can relate to this in the way Rangers fans feel about trading away the #1 pick. Kings fans feel the same way about the #2 pick.

 

[Algernop Kreider]

A puck moving RHD is definitely a need for LA, but if the price is Turcotte, Vilardi, or Byfield, it had better be a true 1RD coming back. DeAngelo is not that and never will be, in my opinion. I think a more realistic trade would be a Rasmus Kupari and picks for a really good #2.

So if I understand you correctly, the Kings have three prospects in their system who are each as valuable a top established NHL player?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

IMO, I think Nils for Turcotte straight up is very close in value. Rangers fans are smitten with Lundkvist, as they should be, but I think theoretically it is an interesting "hockey" swap for both teams.

Coming from a Rangers fan, it’s not close.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Coming from a Rangers fan, it’s not close.

True.

Kings add.